Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[Algor Mortis]

Good point on the research rate... I still think it could be slowed a bit and then have some change around that time period. But I do wish there were a way to better model the way they pretty much DID go from being a poor backwards nation to becoming a world power in ~70 years. As for the UHV though, I don't really like the "No culture in Honshu" and "Highest score in 1940" ones... I would really like those to be changed, although I cant really think up any that go for pre-Industrial era Japan.

Edit: Forgot to mention my second point :/

I still stick to my guns on adding those sea resources. I only suggest adding one near Kyushu, where the city there gets little growth now, one crab in Hokkaido to replace the coal and represent the large amount of well... Crab that come from there, and the one in Edo because Edo should be ridiculously huge.

 

[J. pride]

I placed that same fish for Edo.

Edo was historically a massive city, and Tokyo has 36 million people in it today. With the current resource placement I just can't see that happen.

I understand, that is why i suggest spawning the extra resources in Japan at the beginning of the industrial era (maybe a little bit earlier perhaps 1650-1700 ad); i think it is fairly easy to do so. This would make Edo/Tokyo the massive city it is while at the same time be alot more historically/gameplay wise accurate. Everybody wins!

Good point on the research rate... I still think it could be slowed a bit and then have some change around that time period. But I do wish there were a way to better model the way they pretty much DID go from being a poor backwards nation to becoming a world power in ~70 years. As for the UHV though, I don't really like the "No culture in Honshu" and "Highest score in 1940" ones... I would really like those to be changed, although I cant really think up any that go for pre-Industrial era Japan.

I like ur idea from taking Japan from a backwards nation to a modern one. Perhaps spawning resources and making tech rate significantly higher after the middle ages would be a good idea

 

[Algor Mortis]

Bah, sorry for posting back and forth so much, but...

If there is no better way to simulate the huge leap forward Japan made in the Industrial era, then I would support spawning more resources at a certain date. I just hate seeing Japan as a power, and often on par with China, before the 1800's. And thanks.

 

[Linkman226]

Normal RFC, as well as RFC:Asia, RFC:Europe, and RFC:SoI work fine. DoC and Synthesis do not, however.

I'm working on making a few more practical suggestions for Japan, and so far I've come up with this:

I would suggest adding some decent strength barbarians who spawn in about 600 A.D. up until 1000 A.D. The Japanese had several conflicts with the people known as the Emishi, who are often thought to be the precursors to the later Ainu peoples in northern Honsh. I think there should be at least some resistance to early Japanese expansion north.

The second suggestion concerns the map changes I was thinking about earlier. After some thought and fiddling about in worldbuilder, I think there are just a few very minor changes I would advise. I would change the plains in Kyushu (The southernmost part of Japan) to grassland, and add fish one west of the gold. I also would remove the coal from Hokkaido as you said earlier, and replace it with a crab one north of that. The last thing would be another fish for Edo, I placed it two north of the current fish, although that may not be necessary.

Also I believe Japan should not have near as high a research rate until the 1860's.

The only other thing I would think of changing are the UHV's, which I believe you (or someone) have mentioned before.

Hopefully those are a bit more useful/realistic!

I was thinking the same thing, concerning the Ainu barbs.

Algor, if they have such a low research rate prior to 1860, it will be impossible for them to:
1) complete their historical goal
2) be the world power they were just 70 years (~35 turns) later.

This is true.

 

[dcode147]

At the end of the classical era, all the non-European parts that are marked as Europe (Middle East and Maghreb) are changed to Asia.

Hey, sorry for this finicky comment on an old post, but would it be possible for the following to occur?
- the Horn of Africa to be included in the same continent as whichever continent Arabia is on
- include British isles, and all the random island groups in the world (aka pacific islands, indian ocean islands) into Europe
- Spain, southern Italy and Balkans to be included in the same continent as Arabia after the classical age. I think this works because you don't have to worry about Spain not settling in its core area, encourages Arabs to fight Spain and discourages the Germans from conquering the Balkans.
- Central and Western Russia to be included in Asia during the middle ages
- maybe making Egypt, India and parts of China into Europe during the Industrial age would encourage European interference in those areas??

 

[rogue131]

As for China and Japan. While playing I do find Japan growing in imperial strength, by settling cities in Mongolian regions and the Korean penninsula, they are still easy targets in the 19th century, lacking industrial power. Maybe a bump to their research ability or something? I mean we don't need a juggernaut here who's launching nukes in 1890, but at least rifling, astronomy, and such. Possibily inject a few Russo-Japanese wars starting then. Russia and Japan are too keen in my games to gang up on Mongolia all the time. Besides, Russo-Japanese war can create friction in the East, which is usually quiet for me.

I agree with increasing trading companies to incorporate more resources and such. I wonder if there is anyway to increase random events and resources? I saw a few mods on this out there, don't know the technicals of incorporating them. I don't know how we can do it, or if it is even feesible.

As for China, I wonder if it is possible to script something or design the civ in a way to incorporate the U.S.'s 19th century Open Door Policy. http://history.state.gov/milestones/1899-1913/HayandChina. It really adds dynamics to Chinese history.

 

[Leoreth]

Good point on the research rate... I still think it could be slowed a bit and then have some change around that time period. But I do wish there were a way to better model the way they pretty much DID go from being a poor backwards nation to becoming a world power in ~70 years. As for the UHV though, I don't really like the "No culture in Honshu" and "Highest score in 1940" ones... I would really like those to be changed, although I cant really think up any that go for pre-Industrial era Japan.

I don't think it's really feasible to model the state of infighting Japan was in until the Tokugawa Shogunate.

That said, I intend to remove the "no foreign culture" goal. It's boring and was too easy before Korea was added (now it's too hard). Anyway, you can't actively do something against it. "Highest score in 1930" is actually rather nice, because it forces you to expand to get more points, while not excluding more peaceful means.

Hey, sorry for this finicky comment on an old post, but would it be possible for the following to occur?
- the Horn of Africa to be included in the same continent as whichever continent Arabia is on
- include British isles, and all the random island groups in the world (aka pacific islands, indian ocean islands) into Europe
- Spain, southern Italy and Balkans to be included in the same continent as Arabia after the classical age. I think this works because you don't have to worry about Spain not settling in its core area, encourages Arabs to fight Spain and discourages the Germans from conquering the Balkans.
- Central and Western Russia to be included in Asia during the middle ages
- maybe making Egypt, India and parts of China into Europe during the Industrial age would encourage European interference in those areas??

1) Horn of Africa to Arabia's continent sounds good.
2) British Isles are already now, the islands in the Pacific are a good idea, but I doubt they'll work.
3) They're all part of Europe already.
4) Doesn't really matter because during the middle ages Russia isn't really interesting to anyone. It serves to keep Mongolia from settling there, though.
5) I think that's going too far (and won't have results because it didn't when artificial continents were disabled).

 

[Danwood]

Really Thanks for this!

I'm actually playing with the expanded version from Linkman (since i really like the modmod he added, expecially Global Warming mod which i really miss in my late games), and i just realised, reading his post, that this was the original Rhye modmod from which he built Project Synthesis. So thanks again!

One suggestion: WORK TOGETHER!

 

[youtien]

As for China and Japan. While playing I do find Japan growing in imperial strength, by settling cities in Mongolian regions and the Korean penninsula, they are still easy targets in the 19th century, lacking industrial power. Maybe a bump to their research ability or something? I mean we don't need a juggernaut here who's launching nukes in 1890, but at least rifling, astronomy, and such. Possibily inject a few Russo-Japanese wars starting then. Russia and Japan are too keen in my games to gang up on Mongolia all the time. Besides, Russo-Japanese war can create friction in the East, which is usually quiet for me.

I agree with increasing trading companies to incorporate more resources and such. I wonder if there is anyway to increase random events and resources? I saw a few mods on this out there, don't know the technicals of incorporating them. I don't know how we can do it, or if it is even feesible.

As for China, I wonder if it is possible to script something or design the civ in a way to incorporate the U.S.'s 19th century Open Door Policy. http://history.state.gov/milestones/1899-1913/HayandChina. It really adds dynamics to Chinese history.

It's all AI problem. AI is dumb, so they'll never do as well as you expect. I don't think more and more scripting is a good idea.

Also, if Christianity is extincted (i.e. only existed in Jerusalem and purged by Arabs), later Euro civs shouldn't have it as starting religion.

About the silk road issue, just let silk and spice, incense weigh more than other luxury resources, like +5 gold per market. Or: each plantation +1 or +2 commerce for each open border civ. Make it simple.

 

[Linkman226]

Really Thanks for this!

I'm actually playing with the expanded version from Linkman (since i really like the modmod he added, expecially Global Warming mod which i really miss in my late games), and i just realised, reading his post, that this was the original Rhye modmod from which he built Project Synthesis. So thanks again!

One suggestion: WORK TOGETHER!

GW mod isn't in yet.

It's all AI problem. AI is dumb, so they'll never do as well as you expect. I don't think more and more scripting is a good idea.

Very accurate. The AI is quite ******ed.

EDIT: Leoreth:

CvMap::calculateAreas - this contains the code that splits solid continents into subcontinents for AI logic; all of this code should be removed for a new map; you can modify it as well, but I don't recommend using this feature unless you know what you're doing - splitting continents with this method makes the AI think it's actually two continents/islands split by water, so it will not link them with roads and try to use transport ships to carry units across; in SoI it's used for Oman, Bahrain and Mahra, as those areas are seperated from the rest of Arabia by unworkable desert.

Wouldn't that result in bad AI logic? To split continents?

 

[Opera]

Also, if Christianity is extincted (i.e. only existed in Jerusalem and purged by Arabs), later Euro civs shouldn't have it as starting religion.

This happened to me. Jerusalem got razed before christianism had any chance to spread around. But then European civs start with it as their state religion - which somewhat ok, the problem being that apparently no other religion is spreading to them. Islam and Hinduism both spread to Greece but for some reason neither have spread to Europe (1000AD).

 

[Linkman226]

Much better Chhatrapati Shivaji LH, IMO. Still technically for a Central Asian civ, but the resemblance is much closer than for the the Shaybani LH currently present:

Spoiler Comparison :

Link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=17319

 

[Leoreth]

Really Thanks for this!

I'm actually playing with the expanded version from Linkman (since i really like the modmod he added, expecially Global Warming mod which i really miss in my late games), and i just realised, reading his post, that this was the original Rhye modmod from which he built Project Synthesis. So thanks again!

One suggestion: WORK TOGETHER!

Thanks for playing

And we already do, we're exchanging ideas a lot etc. Most of the time you can't even really tell apart which thread is for which modmod

EDIT: Leoreth: Wouldn't that result in bad AI logic? To split continents?

I think it's no problem as long as the borders are set properly, i.e. where we want the connection to be mainly sea-based, not land. The current East-Asia/Europe/Sub-Saharan Africa division achieves that imo.

The only problem I see are the British Isles. If the AI now doesn't realize they're islands anymore, it maybe won't use ships to cross the channel, having the averse effect of what's actually intended. Strangely since I did this, it has increased English interest in North America; I have never seen them building so many cities there before. Might be just luck, though.

This happened to me. Jerusalem got razed before christianism had any chance to spread around. But then European civs start with it as their state religion - which somewhat ok, the problem being that apparently no other religion is spreading to them. Islam and Hinduism both spread to Greece but for some reason neither have spread to Europe (1000AD).

I think holy cities should be unrazable anyway.

Much better Chhatrapati Shivaji LH, IMO. Still technically for a Central Asian civ, but the resemblance is much closer than for the the Shaybani LH currently present:

Spoiler Comparison :

Link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=17319

Yeah, you're right, I'll change that.

 

[Opera]

Did you increase the spawn zone of the Mongols? I had Qingzhou (or a similar name) as the Japanese and it flipped to them.

Also I noticed a lot of barbarians in the desert west of China. Numerous horse archers and axemen. Not used to this.

 

[Leoreth]

Did you increase the spawn zone of the Mongols? I had Qingzhou (or a similar name) as the Japanese and it flipped to them.

Also I noticed a lot of barbarians in the desert west of China. Numerous horse archers and axemen. Not used to this.

These cities should be excluded from the flip ... I'll look at it.

 

[Cosmos1985]

Isn't the effect of the Temple of Solomon a bit.. underpowered? How often is it really useful for anything but the GP points?

Also, playing as Persia 3000 BC start (Babylon->Persia, if that should matter), Arabia flipped Parsa, 1S of their starting spot iirc, is that really intended? It also seemed that the Arabian flip happened more than one time, first Jerusalem and Sur, then those two cities + Parsa + Egypt, a few turns later, Leoreth can you explain the specific mechanics of how it works now? Maybe I just missed an explanation of it in an earlier post.

A very minor bug: when you lose a corp from your cities (when you run out of resources for it) the popup just says something with TXT.xxxxx.xxxx, instead of a meaningfull message.

Can we come up with a better UP for France? I never liked it, to say the least, France being quite the warmongering nation throughout history. And if you or someone else can come up with something to prevent them from settling on the pigs mad, that would be awesome too! Euro civs and China especially are so keen on settling on resources, where it makes absololutely no sense...

Lastly, I'd like to suggest once again adding an Indy Copenhagen(/Roskilde), at least in the 600AD start, and removing a settler from the Vikings, having it flip upon spawn.

 

[Leoreth]

Isn't the effect of the Temple of Solomon a bit.. underpowered? How often is it really useful for anything but the GP points?

Catholicism and Islam should easily reach the 20 gold limit so I'd say yes. It's not meant to be wonder-level useful, but rather like a shrine to keep Jerusalem valuable for both Christians and Muslims.

Also, playing as Persia 3000 BC start (Babylon->Persia, if that should matter), Arabia flipped Parsa, 1S of their starting spot iirc, is that really intended? It also seemed that the Arabian flip happened more than one time, first Jerusalem and Sur, then those two cities + Parsa + Egypt, a few turns later, Leoreth can you explain the specific mechanics of how it works now? Maybe I just missed an explanation of it in an earlier post.

Yeah, the AI Arabs get an extended flip some years after their spawn (650 AD iirc). It's not really adapted for 3000 BC yet.

A very minor bug: when you lose a corp from your cities (when you run out of resources for it) the popup just says something with TXT.xxxxx.xxxx, instead of a meaningfull message.

Thanks for the notification

Can we come up with a better UP for France? I never liked it, to say the least, France being quite the warmongering nation throughout history. And if you or someone else can come up with something to prevent them from settling on the pigs mad, that would be awesome too! Euro civs and China especially are so keen on settling on resources, where it makes absololutely no sense...

My idea is: The Power of Entente: you can have up to 5 defensive pacts and other civs are more likely to sign a defensive pact with you.

Lastly, I'd like to suggest once again adding an Indy Copenhagen(/Roskilde), at least in the 600AD start, and removing a settler from the Vikings, having it flip upon spawn.

I've already achieved that the Vikings finally prefer Copenhagen over Aarhus, so at the moment it's often up to Germany whether it founds Hamburg or not.

 

[Leoreth]

Expect a new, rather extensive commit soon. Some examples for the new European conquests in South Asia:

Spoiler :

Don't mind the Khmer in India, I did nothing to encourage that, it just happened in that game.

Also, you should see China respawning earlier now. This is quite a usual sight at America's spawn (rather correctly mirroring Qing Dynasty China):

Spoiler :

And yes, that's a Portuguese Canton there.

 

[Opera]

Did you look into Mongolia's flip zone?

Otherwise, looks interesting. How does that colonization happen?
(I'm sure it has been discussed earlier but I didn't quite follow)

 

[The Turk]

Leoreth I'm quite impressed, but the thing that I'm most impressed about is how you got the Dutch to take over Indonesia, that does not look easy to implement. It would be nice if the British also could get a foothold in India, even after the Portuguese take over. Plus I know you said you would add a Delhi Sulatanate/Mughal civ (minor civ), so that would be interesting to simulate with the coming of the British.

Also whats up with Khmer in Delhi?