Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[Leoreth]

It's difficult to add in Korean opposition when only two cities fit in its area.

Reuniting the island is at least a possible medieval goal for Japan, which it should have imo. I'm open for different ideas though.

 

[binTravkin]

Hi!

Just stumbled upon your mod and saw it also includes marathon speed option, gonna try it out (was playing RFC Marathon before).

Do you think there are any mod mods that can be combined with DoC for improved interface / gameplay (I think historicity should already be good)?

Also, is there anywhere I can find how your reworked civics affect stability?

 

[Leoreth]

Good to hear, I hope you like it

I'm not sure what you mean with other modmods ... could you give an example?

And the modmod contains a .doc file that explains the impact of the new civics on all stability aspects rather thoroughly

 

[binTravkin]

Oh, thank you, I will check out.

 

[LuKo]

Argh, Leoreth! Your mod has so many good features that I have to check it out but I really don't want to! I have no time for it!

 

[Leoreth]

I apologize

But seriously, that happens to me all the time. I'd like to try RFCA for example, but all my free civ playing time goes into SoI at, which isn't much to begin with ...

 

[dcode147]

@Leoreth
Can you get the Arabs to respawn in Egypt if they collapse, because that would be pretty cool

And I completely agree with jammerculture, I would say that Japan SHOULD have 2-3 independent cities in its vincity that they need to conquer. Also when you add Korea, you NEED to add some independent cities, to make it hard for them, to reunite the peninsula. But I don't think that Japan needs to have "reunite the island" as a UHV though.

Yeah, reuniting the islands should just be a process in which a human Japanese civilization players needs to go through in order to successfully accomplish later UHV goals.

Sorry for repeating this, but I think those hostile-independent cities should
-be autorazed upon conquest so players can have more say on city placement
-if an AI-player controls Japan, these independent cities should be hard-coded to be destroyed at certain dates in order to help out the AI players who are typically bad at conquering these


If this Japanese hostile-independent civ idea works out well, I think a similar model could be slowly, in the far future, applied to
-a Moorish independent civ, to give the Spanish something pressing to do in Middle Ages
-a Scottish civ, to make England’s Middle Ages more interesting than just waiting for astronomy
-a Chinese hostile-independent civ(s) (maybe something representing real civs like the Jurchens etc… or stuffs like like Xirong, Beidi, Dongyi and Nanman. This/these civs could be like the Japanese-independents in the sense that they don’t represent a particular barbarian group, but just the fact that challenges were faced by the civ they encountered)

 

[binTravkin]

I think the mentioned conflicts (Japanese reunification, Scottish wars, etc) are WAY too small for civ scale and if we lower the conflict scope that much we'd have to put in tens if not hundreds of such small conflicts.
During human history country-scale conflicts were commonplace and just because some took longer, repeated more times or are better documented, they shouldn't be more important than others in portraying them in civ.
Civ is about entities, which are "bigger" than a country in many senses.

Some odd civs which don't follow this rule are just Firaxis way of selling more (Portugal, Netherlands - too small and too short to matter, little difference in culture from neighbours, Spain and Germany respectively)

We shouldn't be putting new civs in, just because "they were there".
To be put in, a civ should be substantially different or introduce something new.
As an example I will use Babilonia - if you count the number of countries or you could say "minor civs" that appeared in that area, the number would be at least over 10.
Babilonia just represents most of them because either they were very similar or because they didn't matter.

 

[binTravkin]

Hi!

I ran the U.S. simulation on Emperor + Marathon.
Now, when I go into my research, some techs are listed as costing 1 beaker to research.
Are those the techs that are owned by everyone already (my guess)?
Is it intentional or is it a bug?

I had a couple of times this exception, which I think is related to GP naming, but no other visible errors.

 

[Opera]

Well, it's not about adding full-fledged civs but independent cities. It's really not a big deal.

On Japan, I think the independent cities should switch to the AI automatically at some date, rather than being razed. Or not -- the Japan AI is already good enough.

 

[DisposableHero]

Beware with independant cities. I have seen extremely odd behavior with them on too many occasions to ignore. Specfically, Swedish Kiev, French central Asia, etc etc.

 

[AdrienIer]

Actually, making Japan spawn late with few troops and a big number of independent cities around would help making the japanese game more interesting. Right now, you only have to develop your island and build wonders to win, it's not so fun. Even if it's not in its UHV, it would help making everything so much better. And could it be possible to make independant cities spawn randomly through the Island, only on the best tiles (to help the AI placing its cities) ? It would not make the game deterministic.

 

[dcode147]

Beware with independant cities. I have seen extremely odd behavior with them on too many occasions to ignore. Specfically, Swedish Kiev, French central Asia, etc etc.

With the number of civilizations unlocked, you can circumvent this by for instance making the French AI be less inclined to declare war against the independent civ that represents central Asian tribes. Likewise, the Viking/Scandinavia AI be less inclined to take Kiev (i've seen this happen in one of my games as well...)

... only on the best tiles (to help the AI placing its cities) ? It would not make the game deterministic.

I think making these cities that belong to these hostile-independent civs autorazed would take away the need to have to place these cities in the best locations and lessen the amount of deterministic city placement on the AI's part.

 

[Sandmonster1989]

With the number of civilizations unlocked, you can circumvent this by for instance making the French AI be less inclined to declare war against the independent civ that represents central Asian tribes. Likewise, the Viking/Scandinavia AI be less inclined to take Kiev (i've seen this happen in one of my games as well...)

I have the French or Germans conquering Kiev more often then the Viking or Russians, who would be the "rightful owners" of Kiev (the rus are scandinavian colonials). I've never had the central asians owned by the french, but I have had the Ethiopians control the holy lands (now that was an epic game!!).

@Leoreth: Did you hit the Italian's research? In 1800, I had the Italians and the Turks (and me, the french) being industrial civs.

 

[The Turk]

Yeah, reuniting the islands should just be a process in which a human Japanese civilization players needs to go through in order to successfully accomplish later UHV goals.

Sorry for repeating this, but I think those hostile-independent cities should
-be autorazed upon conquest so players can have more say on city placement
-if an AI-player controls Japan, these independent cities should be hard-coded to be destroyed at certain dates in order to help out the AI players who are typically bad at conquering these


If this Japanese hostile-independent civ idea works out well, I think a similar model could be slowly, in the far future, applied to
-a Moorish independent civ, to give the Spanish something pressing to do in Middle Ages
-a Scottish civ, to make England’s Middle Ages more interesting than just waiting for astronomy
-a Chinese hostile-independent civ(s) (maybe something representing real civs like the Jurchens etc… or stuffs like like Xirong, Beidi, Dongyi and Nanman. This/these civs could be like the Japanese-independents in the sense that they don’t represent a particular barbarian group, but just the fact that challenges were faced by the civ they encountered)

I agree completely, especially with the Moorish idea, there definitely should be a Moorish representation in this game.
BUT... I don't think we need to autoraze anything for the AI, as I think they should be able to do it on their own. And I don't think you would need to "auto-raze" indie cities upon capture, you could have the option to raze the city, but I see no point in having to destroy it completely

 

[Opera]

The point is to make the city be a nuisance that you have to remove but that doesn't give you a kind of free city (usually independents being rather easy to conquer). Also it allows some kind of most-annoying placement of the city without making the player angry because he has to keep it -- he can settle in a better place.

 

[jammerculture]

Independent cities are not free if they are defended. The cost of military units to conquer is more then the cost of a settler in terms of time and production. As well, some of the best games are the ones when completely off the wall things happen. I like to think of these scenarios as being probabilistic instead of deterministic. There is a high probability that Kiev, for example, will be Russian, but that game where it's Mongol is probably going to be one that you remember for awhile! It also gives the independent civs a bit of a spotlight where they become more then just background. And like others have said, could be the first step in implementing others scenarios which could add a lot of flavor and fill in some gaps in this game.



I really hope you implement some form of "unite the island" challenge for Japan as that really is the story during the middle ages for them: Who is going to be Shogun? If implemented properly it can allow the stability system of RFC to become more then just something bad that happens when you screw up, rather, there would be one single scenario in which playing that system would be the game, which would be a really unique challenge. Although it might not be for everyone, it would be a lot of fun for those who like that sort of thing.


I'm not sure I understand the logic behind the "autoraze" argument. don't you get the option to keep or raze on conquest?

 

[Sandmonster1989]

Maybe for Japan, several small independant and barbarian cities (guarded with archers and maybe samurai) could emerge on the island (maybe on the sites of Edo, Sapporo, Osaka) shortly after their spawn dates? And on the 600 ad map, these cities could be already existing and NOT flip?

I am also wondering if there could be that source off fish of the east coast of the island of Crete?

"... Is probably going to be one that you remember for awhile!" Yep. Those are the reasons we play this game, isn't it?

 

[jammerculture]

Rome is still crashing for me. Save attached.

 

[KMRblue1027]

What area is turkey's spawn flip zone? In my Byzantine game I'm trying to judge where to position my troops to spawn kill the Turks and I'm afraid of them flipping.