Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[Linkman226]

I'm thinking of adding a Counter-Reformation event into Synthesis, which would cause war.

Might wanna consider it.

 

[civ_king]

*snip*
The problem currently is only that multiple religions are only an asset, not a liability in the religion system in RFC. I don't think we need to become as detailed as civ_king in his suggestion (which would turn the Reformation into something favoring Catholicism, weirdly). But the Reformation itself should spark more initial conflicts (maybe wars between neighboring countries with different confessions?) and multiple religions need to be penalized more, with unhappiness for non-state religions like in SoI. Prosecutors need to be added as well then, of course.

Multiple religions need to be penalized because it causes acrimony and strife.

I concede that the concept is overpowered because in real life the Jesuits were overpowered. They converted myriads, they were inquisitioners and most of all they built staggering centres of learning. If you can make historic, useful things for Protestant countries go for it

 

[dcode147]

Multiple religions need to be penalized because it causes acrimony and strife.

I concede that the concept is overpowered because in real life the Jesuits were overpowered. They converted myriads, they were inquisitioners and most of all they built staggering centres of learning. If you can make historic, useful things for Protestant countries go for it

True, the Jesuits did do a lot. But I feel the game tends to be much more macrohistorical. If we pay incessant attention to every little detail, the game might get bulky and lose a lot of gameplay value.

Pretty much, the reason I don't think we need to have Jesuit units with 3 different options is the same reason I don't think we need a Great Merchant (such as Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller) have the additional ability to construct libraries and universities for free.

I do agree that perhaps the role of the Reformation(and Counter Reformation) could be slightly expanded however.

 

[Leoreth]

Exactly. The Jesuits would be a great feature for a Europe centered modmod (I'm still surprised RFCE doesn't contain a Jesuit "corporation"), but seem too exceptionalist towards Catholicism (not only in a "Catholicism vs. Protestantism" way, but also in a "Christianity vs. the rest" way).

Maybe the available options when the Reformation spreads should be increased? Like:

1. Embrace the Reformation: like before (plus maybe some additional bonus*).
2. Cuius regio, eius religio: like declining the Reformation, i.e. the civ stays Catholic, Protestantism remains in its cities, no other effects.
3. Join the Counter-Reformation: the civ stays Catholic, Protestantism gets removed from all cities it previously spread to (including a temporary unhappiness in these cities), war gets declared on all Protestant civs, and an appropriate bonus like some free libraries/monasteries/universities.

*there should be enough incentive to go Protestant, because you don't only risk war with all counter-reformationist civs and also waste the counter-reformational benefits for yourself, but also lose the +2 hammer bonus from the most often Catholic AP.

 

[keli]

Weird bug. + Italy flipped Ljulbjana + Milano but not Rome.



http://img858.imageshack.us/i/63568547.jpg/
http://img34.imageshack.us/i/58271735.jpg/

 

[AOS9001]

3. Join the Counter-Reformation: the civ stays Catholic, Protestantism gets removed from all cities it previously spread to (including a temporary unhappiness in these cities), war gets declared on all Protestant civs, and an appropriate bonus like some free libraries/monasteries/universities.

That sounds like it'll really mix things up. Excellent...

 

[civ_king]

We could name "Join the Counter-Reformation" as "Vivat Papa!" (long live the Pope).

 

[dcode147]

Regarding the Reformation (really small suggestion), would it be possible to make Protestanism spread really really quick the first couple of turns when it comes into play. Then delay the "make a choice about whether to embrace the Reformation or not" after a few turns so depending on how many of your cities have Protestanism, you can make a judgement as to whether to convert or not convert.

 

[Brew]

Hey Leoreth, just tried out the newest version (my first civ game in a few months) and it is of course awesome! Just wondering though, did you add the tech scaling feature from Edead into marathon speed? Things just still seem too advanced in later Europe. I'm England and its only 1800 but me and Germany are both about to have infantry and I'm pretty sure the turns are about to slow down significantly. Plus Germany already built St. Basil's Cathedral.

Rome is much cooler now, but despite the upgrades its still really hard to get the techs you need without trading (with which I had absolutely no cooperation from the AI civs).

Thanks for all your hard work though!!

 

[Leoreth]

Are the people who had savegames before the Roman UP crash (conquest of Carthage) still around? The upload function works again here on civfanatics, and it would be a huge help if you could provide them to me now.

 

[The Turk]

NEVER AGAIN! Like we should never again persecute the Jews; we should NEVER AGAIN allow the Turks to control all of Persia (and in some games India)!! A Persian and Indian placeholder IS needed, and all tiles east of Baghdad/Basrah NEED to be removed from the Turkish war maps AND settler maps.

I countered this once, by putting Turkey as part of Europe in 1300, and they actually conquered the Balkans and bit of Russia, much better than taking Persia!
Anyway here is hoping to a change to all this!

 

[Opera]

Bah. Stop trying to mold the game so it's always the same thing every time! @_@

 

[civ_king]

Combined Ottoman-Mughal empire FTW

 

[The Turk]

Bah. Stop trying to mold the game so it's always the same thing every time! @_@

ACTUALLY..... This is how it looks ALL the time! So your argument in invalid here. I'm saying there should be a unique Persian Muslim and Indian Muslim civ which comes with the 600 AD start.

@Civ_King
LOL! What an epic empire that would have been....

 

[Opera]

Except what you'd want is to make the world exactly like it was in history, which would make it looks the same way every time as well. Or at least you seem to have trouble accepting some bits of alt-history at times. Nothing against you mind you

 

[AOS9001]

A Persian respawn in 1500 (Safavids) could keep a balance of power. Then the Turks and Persians would be constantly battling for control over Mesopotamia and western Iran, and who knows, one may even conquer the other. You could get Turkey stretching over Persia, or you could get Persia going right up to Europe like it did way back in the days of Xerxes. Stability map wouldn't have changed, after all.

 

[The Turk]

Except what you'd want is to make the world exactly like it was in history, which would make it looks the same way every time as well. Or at least you seem to have trouble accepting some bits of alt-history at times. Nothing against you mind you

I'm not going to take it as an insult. But Opera if you haven't realized, NOTHING goes according to history in this game
Heck, I saw the Arabs DESTROY the Byzantines one game, where they went as far as capturing Constantinople, and had their capital in Cairo! I wasn't mad, that was just the game setting UP a "historically" accurate map, and letting the AI/Human change the course of history, thats how these RFC games work. As for having the Persians and Indians from the start, I say "why not"? Currently the Ottomans don't go after N Africa and the Balkans, instead they go for Persia and India, which had their own cultures flourishing at the time, and which are completely blank. Having more competition for Mesopotamia and Central Asia would also not be a bad thing something which the Persians and Indians addition help a lot with. If the Persians capture all of Mesopotamia, GREAT! If the Indians collapse early on, GREAT! But as long as the system is setup from the beginning, we can let the game's "history" take its own path, with a few shrugs and bumps along the way to help gameplay (like the Conquistadors Event or the addition of historical war/settler maps)

EDIT: Could not agree more with what AOS9001 just said!
Except that, the 600 AD Persians should get a stability hit IF they reach all the way to Anatolia
But having conflict over Iraq and the Caucuses and rule over Central Asia is definitely needed!

 

[2phunkey4u]

I think it's ok to have Central Asia on the Turks' maps, be it for the Seljuks or for the idea that the Ottomans would've like conquered Iran, too if it weren't for the Safavids. Which brings me to the point that a stronger counter-presence in Central Asia (said respawned Persians) is more beautiful than just removing that area from the Turks' war maps.

 

[Leoreth]

Exactly. When there's a Safavid Persia around, the Ottoman war maps in Persia make sense again (pitting them against each other). I don't think they will have an easy time expanding there then though.

That said, I don't think it will be a problem to include a Persian respawn without any further adjustments (i.e. they will use the same assets as Achaemenid Persia) in 1.72 to fix things in the Middle East.

Adding more Safavid flavor (LHs, UU, flag etc.) can then be done later.

Edit: Updated the "upcoming features" list in the first post:

Spoiler :

v1.7 (The Middle East) features:

• Conditional spawn for Byzantium
• Capital moves to Cairo or Baghdad for AI Arabia
• Better balanced Italy spawn (saved other civ's units from flipping)
• Safavid Persian respawn in 1500 AD
• Extend the Roman and Arabian UHV territory requirements

v1.8 (The Far East) features:

• spawn Mongolian settlers in Transoxania?
• Mongolia flips Transoxania on spawn
• Mongolian and Arabian "conqueror" events
• slightly buff the Indian subcontinent
• find a way to improve Silk Route cities (maybe via corporation: +2 food, +5 commerce per silk?)
• replace Mongolian 12% area goal? (maybe "control 5-7 cores"?)
• include additional Hindu wonders
• include additional Buddhist wonders
• return Confucianism as an eighth religion
• new civilization: Korea
• open up jungles in Indonesia to allow European colonization

Unscheduled features (might be in v1.8 or later):

• new Viking UHV
• slightly buff Finland
• modify the vassal-master tile control rules (vassals get to keep their core tiles even when in master's BFC)
• replace Russias "lose no cities" goal? (maybe "build 20 ICBMs by 1970"?)
• replace Japan's "no foreign culture" goal? (no idea there yet)
• add renaissance/colonial corporations
• add Prussia / change Germany to HRE
• add Sweden
• change Italy from Rome rebirth to proper civilization?
• add post-colonial civs (Colombia, Mexico, Brazil, Canada, Australia) as unplayable conditional spawns without UU, UB, UP and UHV.
• rework the classical/medieval combat system (archers for collateral damage, removal of axemen ...)
• Mughal rebirth for India?
• add events for actual historical events (e.g. major wars like the Thirty Years War, War of the Spanish succession etc.) or related quests
• implement Varietas Delectat for this modmod
• implement features of BUG for this modmod

 

[IrishDragon]

I think a better option for Transoxania would be to have cities there for the Mongols to conquer rather than flipping or giving them settlers