Discussion on Potential NES and IOT Forum Merger

[Thlayli]

The forum names NESIOT or IOT/NES has like, even less meaning than NES or IOT, each of which only tangentially mean something. It sounds like some obscure government agency or something.

I'm attached to the name NES sentimentally, and I suspect a similar thing is true for IOTers, but like the Holy Roman Empire being neither Holy, Roman, or an Empire, Never Ending Stories certainly end, and aren't always (just) "stories".

Similarly, IOTs don't always deal with empires, and are quite frequently on topic. A stranger coming to our forum seeing NESIOT or IOT/NES will either be confused or turned off. If the forums are to be merged, a unified name that summarizes the description "Forum strategy games with roleplaying elements" should be selected.

Otherwise you're just keeping the two separate forum ideas and putting them in the same place. In that case you might as well add redirects to NES from the IOT forum heading and vice versa rather than merging them.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

After pondering over the reply box for about 30 minutes, I've decided to just state that I would really love a thread that allowed for moderators to give their own two cents and point of view back at others.

@North King: Twice.

 

[North King]

After pondering over the reply box for about 30 minutes, I've decided to just state that I would really love a thread that allowed for moderators to give their own two cents and point of view back at others.

Stop by any time. I love to hear dissenting viewpoints.

@North King: Twice.

Point. Though it's been brought up god knows how many times, and one wonders why once wasn't enough.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

For the same reason that Scottish (or Quebecois) independence has been brought up multiple times over the years. Times change, people change, and points of view can change. Just because something was or was not true a number of years ago, does not mean that it remains true today.

 

[Azale]

Yes, I bet the Scots are real eager for their independence referendum this christmas.

 

[hoplitejoe]

i heard it was cos cfc mods are lttiirertaly nazis who are trying to crush our precious internet games.


Srsly tho, every time this has come up it has been from a community drive for it to happen, mostly from the IOT side no doubt, but with plenty of NES support. The 2 votes have been years apart.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

i heard it was cos cfc mods are lttiirertaly nazis

We do not settle for the lesser evil, try Cthulu rather.

 

[Zack]

The forum names NESIOT or IOT/NES has like, even less meaning than NES or IOT, each of which only tangentially mean something. It sounds like some obscure government agency or something.

I'm attached to the name NES sentimentally, and I suspect a similar thing is true for IOTers, but like the Holy Roman Empire being neither Holy, Roman, or an Empire, Never Ending Stories certainly end, and aren't always (just) "stories".

Similarly, IOTs don't always deal with empires, and are quite frequently on topic. A stranger coming to our forum seeing NESIOT or IOT/NES will either be confused or turned off. If the forums are to be merged, a unified name that summarizes the description "Forum strategy games with roleplaying elements" should be selected.

Otherwise you're just keeping the two separate forum ideas and putting them in the same place. In that case you might as well add redirects to NES from the IOT forum heading and vice versa rather than merging them.

I've said this before when this topic has come up, but the Mafia/NOTW section (which contains mafia games and NOTW games) being named just that has worked perfectly all these years. I don't see what's wrong with a subforum named IOT/NES, or how some generic name like "Empire-Building Games" or something is better.

 

[ChiefDesigner]

i heard it was cos cfc mods are lttiirertaly nazis who are trying to crush our precious internet games

That's a willful misreading of Valka's point. I expect better from you, hoplitejoe.

 

[Bootstoots]

So.. I've been reading this topic, and I have one question:

What the hell? What's wrong with you people? Did you eat something bad and now you can't behave properly? Cuz that seems the only explanation for most of the posts in this 11-paged thread. I can't believe most of the things said here.

If you really want some background, this thread, in particular the last several dozen pages, can provide some answers. It's like all of OT, crammed into a single 576-page thread. It developed a severe inflammation and had to be euthanized last September.

...not that it will explain much - I read the last 60 pages in order to understand the disease and even took notes. But I'm not an NESer and I still don't understand the root causes of the inflammation. And there are some important deleted posts you won't be able to see from when it was rushed in for surgery. But most of the background for why there are so many angry people is there.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

After pondering over the reply box for about 30 minutes, I've decided to just state that I would really love a thread that allowed for moderators to give their own two cents and point of view back at others.

You already have that ability. Regular members are not allowed to post in the staff forum and there is almost nothing a junior mod can't do or say here in Site Feedback. So go ahead and give your two cents at us (I thought you have already been doing this?).

Unless you mean a thread that's locked to the regular members that only moderators can post in and members can't rebut any points...

i heard it was cos cfc mods are lttiirertaly nazis who are trying to crush our precious internet games.

That's a willful misreading of Valka's point. I expect better from you, hoplitejoe.

Whut?

Let's get something straight: While I frequently disagree with what some moderators say and/or how they say it, and with some of their actions, at NO time have I EVER called any CFC moderator a Nazi. Yes, I've called them out on various issues over the years, and most recently this morning. I've sometimes used some pretty strong language. But I have never called any of them a Nazi.

Hoplitejoe, if you were joking, it was in poor taste. I don't know if you misunderstood my previous posts, but please realize that they are intended to advocate for fair and equal treatment for all the CFC members involved in this issue, no matter if they are NES, IOT, CFC-only, both CFC/Frontier members, and current players or past players.

 

[Luckymoose]

1. NESes are not specifically World Building or Politically Driven anything. That completely negates the vastness that is the genre.

2. I have no complaint of merger. I do have complaint of a merger where NESers who left, potentially temporarily, in attempt to solve issues with CFC staff are excluded or counted as lesser members of the community. I do not give two piles of dead raccoon about the status of IOT or NES, since the games will be labeled differently and will not be the same anyway. I do protest the lack of NESer supported moderation. We supported Birdjaguar, but we never voted for EQ (who is not an active member of the wider community and barely speaks to any of us) and we've had plenty of issues with BSmith running his mouth and being aggressive (not to mention he isn't even a NESer, and not many IOTers I spoke with months ago could say he did much IOTing either). So what warrants moderation staffing besides "People who don't threaten the admins"?

2b. IOTers can play, whatever. Our games aren't the same and our communities don't mingle much. But they should not be allowed to dictate the future of NESing, the rules of the NESing subforum, or the anything of that nature without cooperating with and considering the full vote of NESers in those decisions. Otherwise you're just some other group coming into our land and plopping down a flag.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

2. I have no complaint of merger. I do have complaint of a merger where NESers who left, potentially temporarily, in attempt to solve issues with CFC staff are excluded or counted as lesser members of the community.

This is the key point. We are all in this together, trying to make something work. We can't disenfranchise a part of the community.

 

[BSmith1068]

...we've had plenty of issues with BSmith running his mouth and being aggressive (not to mention he isn't even a NESer, and not many IOTers I spoke with months ago could say he did much IOTing either).

I, of course, disagree with this sentiment as I have always attempted to be fair and do the right thing, even when directly insulted and demeaned. I will also take umbrage with your definition of what is or is not a NESer or an IOTer.

 

[Luckymoose]

I, of course, disagree with this sentiment as I have always attempted to be fair and do the right thing, even when directly insulted and demeaned. I will also take umbrage with your definition of what is or is not a NESer or an IOTer.

What is or isn't has little to do with who is and who isn't active in the community they govern.

 

[W|M]

From what I've seen - and I don't know there's the same situation in NES - no mod has participated in any IOT for at least a year, if not more.

 

[North King]

Birdjaguar came close; granted he was chosen directly from the NESing ranks.

 

[Thlayli]

Yeah BSmith seems like a fairly nice guy who made a few fairly big enforcement errors, but I wouldn't call him a NESer.

Buck Godot was a good comic though. The Foglios have really gone downhill in the last year or two.

 

[BSmith1068]

I would love to be more active in both, but sadly RL realities and time constraints prevent that. That doesnt mean I dont understand the way things work or can't govern them. I was quite active in IOT for some time and have participated in more than a few NESes. I find it hard to believe that I somehow would not qualify as being a member of either community.

 

[Luckymoose]

I would love to be more active in both, but sadly RL realities and time constraints prevent that. That doesnt mean I dont understand the way things work or can't govern them. I was quite active in IOT for some time and have participated in more than a few NESes. I find it hard to believe that I somehow would not qualify as being a member of either community.

A member? Sure! An active participant who knows how we operate and what we're like as human beings in the hobby and outside of it? Nope!