Do we need to pledge of alliegence in the U.S? Should it be modified?

[MobBoss]

Insults? If you cant handle the truth that you pray to a god that doesn't exsist and expect me to be somehow beholden to said imaginary being by way of official government pledges then I don't care if your insulted. But reality being fairytales and imaginary friends in your mind I just can't lower my self to such nonsence.

Yes. Insults. You are being incredibly insulting by saying someone like me is delusional. You are also flat out wrong. Your mindset and attitude is exactly and precisely why atheists in america face such bias. Its just flat out bigotry in the extreme and not needed nor welcome. You dont care? Fine. But in turn dont expect me to care about you whining (and yes it is whining) about such things like the pledge.

It is what it is. Dont like it? /oh well. When it comes to peoples attitudes like yours - I dont care.

I take you repeted reluctance as an unwillingness to have your "christians should be mad its been there for 50 years" hogwash refuted as some divine reasoning to impose your dilusinal regious bunk on the rest of us.

No one is imposing crap on you. Period. In fact, the opposite is actually true. You want to impose your atheism upon all the rest of us. Sorry, but I am not having any today, already had my serving of bigotry thanks.

But hey I'm a guest in the house of fundimentalist christians god forbid I do anything but agree with them as it may hurt their feelings.

If I had a guest in my house as insulting as you, my foot and their rear end would have a meeting as they were ejected out my door.

 

[warpus]

No one is imposing crap on you. Period. In fact, the opposite is actually true. You want to impose your atheism upon all the rest of us. Sorry, but I am not having any today, already had my serving of bigotry thanks.

If people were suggesting that the "in god we trust" was updated to "at god we laugh", or something, then you'd have a point.

I'm not American but I would think things like this should be made to include everyone in the country, not jus those who believe in a God.

 

[skadistic]

A man has an imaginary friend and he is called delisional unless he names it god.

 

[IglooDame]

No one is imposing crap on you. Period. In fact, the opposite is actually true. You want to impose your atheism upon all the rest of us. Sorry, but I am not having any today, already had my serving of bigotry thanks.

How someone that is presumably aware of the maltreatment given people innocently seeking to practice their religion in truly atheist-dominated countries like China can claim that a minority trying to remove a few words in a pledge mouthed by schoolchildren is "imposing atheism" has absolutely no sense of proportion or propriety. You want atheism imposed on you? We can just arrest you for being caught with a bible, imprison you for leading prayers in your home, disappear you for publicly urging the government to rethink its policies. Thinking that anything happening in the US at all constitutes "imposing atheism" is ludicrous compared to the circumstances of Chinese religious dissidents, many of them Christian by the way.

And you'd argue the reverse is probably true, that those of us complaining about "under God" does likewise, but with "atheists aren't trusted" and "atheists can't get elected" I think that we have just a bit more to be sensitive and defensive about than American Christians.

 

[MobBoss]

How someone that is presumably aware of the maltreatment given people innocently seeking to practice their religion in truly atheist-dominated countries like China can claim that a minority trying to remove a few words in a pledge mouthed by schoolchildren is "imposing atheism" has absolutely no sense of proportion or propriety. You want atheism imposed on you? We can just arrest you for being caught with a bible, imprison you for leading prayers in your home, disappear you for publicly urging the government to rethink its policies. Thinking that anything happening in the US at all constitutes "imposing atheism" is ludicrous compared to the circumstances of Chinese religious dissidents, many of them Christian by the way.

And you'd argue the reverse is probably true, that those of us complaining about "under God" does likewise, but with "atheists aren't trusted" and "atheists can't get elected" I think that we have just a bit more to be sensitive and defensive about than American Christians.

Its all a matter of scale. I readily admit China is bad and far, far worse than anything our garden variety Atheist here in the USA is trying to accomplish. However, I dont think there is any doubt what-so-ever, that someone like Skadistic for example, would impose his brand of atheism on all of us if he were in charge. I do not doubt that at all. In that regard, the only difference in the USA and China is who exactly is in charge. I dont think it would bother Skadistic in the least to toss all the 'delusional' people in the loony bin and be done with it. At least that is the exact attitude that he gives.

 

[GenMarshall]

The pledge of allegiance should stay the way it is now.

 

[Bill3000]

Its all a matter of scale. I readily admit China is bad and far, far worse than anything our garden variety Atheist here in the USA is trying to accomplish. However, I dont think there is any doubt what-so-ever, that someone like Skadistic for example, would impose his brand of atheism on all of us if he were in charge. I do not doubt that at all. In that regard, the only difference in the USA and China is who exactly is in charge. I dont think it would bother Skadistic in the least to toss all the 'delusional' people in the loony bin and be done with it. At least that is the exact attitude that he gives.

And given the fact that you had said yourself that atheists cannot be elected, your fear is bunk.

 

[Che Guava]

Its all a matter of scale. I readily admit China is bad and far, far worse than anything our garden variety Atheist here in the USA is trying to accomplish. However, I dont think there is any doubt what-so-ever, that someone like Skadistic for example, would impose his brand of atheism on all of us if he were in charge. I do not doubt that at all. In that regard, the only difference in the USA and China is who exactly is in charge. I dont think it would bother Skadistic in the least to toss all the 'delusional' people in the loony bin and be done with it. At least that is the exact attitude that he gives.

ANd that's an argument in my mind to keep god completely out of government. Enshrine the right of everyone to worship in any way they please, and recognize that government is a place to discuss human, not divine or theological, problems.

 

[MobBoss]

And given the fact that you had said yourself that atheists cannot be elected, your fear is bunk.

Really? Or is it possible, as folks like Jollyroger mention, true atheists would just pretend they were christians in order to get elected? Possible or unthinkable?

 

[GenMarshall]

Really? Or is it possible, as folks like Jollyroger mention, true atheists would just pretend they were christians in order to get elected? Possible or unthinkable?

Knowing that politicans lie to get their way into office, I would not be surprised that a true devout atheist would pretend that they were Christians.

 

[IglooDame]

Really? Or is it possible, as folks like Jollyroger mention, true atheists would just pretend they were christians in order to get elected? Possible or unthinkable?

Sure, the same way Rudy Giuliani is pretending that he's a Republican in order to get elected.

 

[Xanikk999]

Mobboss, why is it unreasanable to leave god out of politics and our nations emblems/mottos?

There is no sane reason to put "in god we trust" on our money, or "under god" in our pledge.

The funny thing is that these were added by christian fundamentalists in the 50s/60s and it wasnt in the pledge or on our money earlier.

 

[MobBoss]

Sure, the same way Rudy Giuliani is pretending that he's a Republican in order to get elected.

I knew you wouldnt resist that. But for him, hey, it might just work!

 

[Bill3000]

Really? Or is it possible, as folks like Jollyroger mention, true atheists would just pretend they were christians in order to get elected? Possible or unthinkable?

Huh? That's impossible - the mudslinging of politics would absolutely prevent such a thing from happening, as his history will be found.

I think you need to take that tinfoil hat off - the US is much more likely to become a theocratic state before an atheist state, and even that has a probability of zero.

 

[MobBoss]

Mobboss, why is it unreasanable to leave god out of politics and our nations emblems/mottos?

Because God is part of the history and heritage of this nation.

There is no sane reason to put "in god we trust" on our money, or "under god" in our pledge.

Apparently our ancestors disagree with you directly.

The funny thing is that these were added by christian fundamentalists in the 50s/60s and it wasnt in the pledge or on our money earlier.

You consider Dwight D. Eisehower a 'christian fundamentalist? Or all of congress that voted on the bill?

 

[IglooDame]

Knowing that politicans lie to get their way into office, I would not be surprised that a true devout atheist would pretend that they were Christians.

Of course, neither would I be surprised that a true devout Christian would lie and pretend that a politician was not a Christian in order to prevent him from getting into office.

 

[MobBoss]

Of course, neither would I be surprised that a true devout Christian would lie and pretend that a politician was not a Christian in order to prevent him from getting into office.

*cough*....you have to first be running for the office...*cough*.

 

[GenMarshall]

The funny thing is that these were added by christian fundamentalists in the 50s/60s and it wasnt in the pledge or on our money earlier.

I doubt that was true. You fail to realize during that time that it was the Cold War in which Communism was associated with Atheism (case seen in religious persecution and suppression of the Russian Orthodox Church in the Soviet Union).

However, your statement about "In god we trust" being on our money starting in the 1950s is utterly false and quite inaccurate. It's been around since the US Civil War. "In god we trust" has been on the penny since 1864 with the passage of the Coinage Act or 1864.

Here is a sample of one of thoes coins from the era:

Note the "In god we trust" and the date of coinage 1864.

 

[IglooDame]

*cough*....you have to first be running for the office...*cough*.

I don't think "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor" has been amended to regard the candidacy status of the neighbor, has it?

 

[TheDuckLover]

"In God we trust" is ok by me. But we shouldn't have to swear loyalty to our country unless we are a soldier, president, something like that.