grs
nameless one
Very good and detailed setup Greebley 
.
.
DocT5- The RaR Deity Trial
- Thread starter Doc Tsiolkovski
- Start date
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Roster:
Greebley - just played (and well done, enjoy your steak)
Tinkez -up!
grs - on deck
Pfeffersack
DocT
mad-bax
Greebley - just played (and well done, enjoy your steak)
Tinkez -up!
grs - on deck
Pfeffersack
DocT
mad-bax
grs
nameless one
Something about our research priorities. As It will not be possible/legal to turn research off, just trading is no option. Are we aiming to uncover resources first (e.g.:weaving, fermentation) or into production increase (e.g. masonry, scrape mining) or something completely different? Getting techs before the AI seems difficult to say the least.
On first sight masonry and scrape mining always appeal to me, especially since this will profit from our shield rich environment.
Next question would be: which government are we aiming for (short term)? Democracy seems to be a good choice.
On first sight masonry and scrape mining always appeal to me, especially since this will profit from our shield rich environment.
Next question would be: which government are we aiming for (short term)? Democracy seems to be a good choice.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
4 Techs are must-haves: Cultivation (we start with that), Domestication (Horses), Masonry (Worker Housings), Srcape Mining (Iron).
Then it gets interesting:
For a Non-AGR Civ, I'd suggest some Techs you can discover first (Weaving, Fermentation, Mathematics when you have Alpha).
For an AGR Civ (Settlers aren't more expensive for us than Cultivators, and the tile penalty...): Head for Dyna like nothing. Writing, Urbanization, Caste System. Writing is a good choice to start with since it is more worth than the beakers due to enabling embassies.
Dynasticism as a Gov tech needs to be self-researched as well.
Nevertheless, Weaving could be worth it with all the Jungle nearby.
Gov: No way around Monarchy first. Then, either Demo or Republic if we're stuck in wars.
Then it gets interesting:
For a Non-AGR Civ, I'd suggest some Techs you can discover first (Weaving, Fermentation, Mathematics when you have Alpha).
For an AGR Civ (Settlers aren't more expensive for us than Cultivators, and the tile penalty...): Head for Dyna like nothing. Writing, Urbanization, Caste System. Writing is a good choice to start with since it is more worth than the beakers due to enabling embassies.
Dynasticism as a Gov tech needs to be self-researched as well.
Nevertheless, Weaving could be worth it with all the Jungle nearby.
Gov: No way around Monarchy first. Then, either Demo or Republic if we're stuck in wars.
grs
nameless one
Republic and Democracy are only three techs each past Monarchy. I am not that sure about double revolting at that time.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Theoretically, 3 Techs. But if we want to have a shot on TGLib, about as far away as Education. By all means revolt ASAP, we'll make easily twice the spt everywhere, can whip and research at 60%.
We can make a detour for Philo (needed on the looong path to Literature anyway), and if we're lucky enough, we could try to grabb some Techs towards Demo.
But I see as more likely fighting Babylon than maxing for research
We can make a detour for Philo (needed on the looong path to Literature anyway), and if we're lucky enough, we could try to grabb some Techs towards Demo.
But I see as more likely fighting Babylon than maxing for research
Ok, I've played my 10 turns. I played 6 turns after writing my post and then went training, and did not check this site for the last 4 turns now. So, the research I chose was a little different, as the few games I've played showed to me that AI seems to research Mathematics quite late. Therefore I bought alpha and started on Math and crossed my fingers that we'd get that first as the AI goes for Dynasticism full speed. An other reason was to counter possible sneak attack -> have possibility to build catapults for bombardment.
Feel free to critisize, I'm here to learn and I've told the reasoning behind my choice. I agree that next should be Masonry.
The turnlog:
Pre-Turn:
There's nothing to do as Greebley's setup is excellent. See that Babylon has 4 techs on us, so we have to meet more civs to get a chance for two-fers or three-fers.
Take a look who we are playing against: Indians, carthagians, americans, Chinese, persians, spanish, germans (probably the blue one), babylonians, russians and the french.
Hit enter.
IBT:
Green tribal guardsman approaches Bison River.
2950BC(1):
Meet the Persians. They have 5 techs on us, and so do Babys as well. Babylon has 190gp, so they have done some trading last round.
2900BC(2):
MM Bison River to grow in 1, Am champion in 1.
Babylon has Ritualism (Persia doesn't have it), but we can't buy it. No two-fer
IBT:
Domestication comes in, start Alphabet to have the possibility to research math and build catapults if someone tries to walk over us.
Domestication reveals a camel just outside Bison river borders in the NE.
2850BC(3):
Bison River Am champion -> hardy clan.
Am champion goes towards sugar to see how close persians are.
2800BC(4):
Little Bighorn scout -> scout.
Move Am champion on a hill and of course there is a barb next to him then...
IBT:
Barb kills our Am Champion.
2750BC(5):
Scout from Bighorn moves South
2710BC(6):
Babylonians find a city E of Bison River on the river by the horses.
That nasty barb approaches Bison river, it's two steps away. There's one american champion in Bison River, I play risky and count that he can win by attacking if the barb comes next to Bison River.
I send Persia 39gp+1gpt for Alphabet (is now due in 6). Start mathematics, due in 19.
IBT:
Barb moves N, whuh! Another barb appears next to Scout in S.
2670BC(7):
Nothing.
2630BC(8):
Little Bighorn scout -> tribal guardsman.
Babylons have invented something and sold it to Babylons as now they are 300gp richer and babys that much poorer.
2590BC(9):
Our scout in South is trying to avoid the barb by retreating.
2550BC(10):
Move scouts, the southern Scout has been able to evade the barb there. That barb was seen TWO turns ago S,SW. Next player should be careful in that direction.
The other barb moved (looking from Bison River) from square E,E,N to E 2 turns ago.
Babys and Persia are still without Mathematics, we have it due in 12.
Good luck!
THE SAVE
Feel free to critisize, I'm here to learn and I've told the reasoning behind my choice. I agree that next should be Masonry.
The turnlog:
Pre-Turn:
There's nothing to do as Greebley's setup is excellent. See that Babylon has 4 techs on us, so we have to meet more civs to get a chance for two-fers or three-fers.
Take a look who we are playing against: Indians, carthagians, americans, Chinese, persians, spanish, germans (probably the blue one), babylonians, russians and the french.
Hit enter.
IBT:
Green tribal guardsman approaches Bison River.
2950BC(1):
Meet the Persians. They have 5 techs on us, and so do Babys as well. Babylon has 190gp, so they have done some trading last round.
2900BC(2):
MM Bison River to grow in 1, Am champion in 1.
Babylon has Ritualism (Persia doesn't have it), but we can't buy it. No two-fer
IBT:
Domestication comes in, start Alphabet to have the possibility to research math and build catapults if someone tries to walk over us.
Domestication reveals a camel just outside Bison river borders in the NE.
2850BC(3):
Bison River Am champion -> hardy clan.
Am champion goes towards sugar to see how close persians are.
2800BC(4):
Little Bighorn scout -> scout.
Move Am champion on a hill and of course there is a barb next to him then...
IBT:
Barb kills our Am Champion.
2750BC(5):
Scout from Bighorn moves South
2710BC(6):
Babylonians find a city E of Bison River on the river by the horses.
That nasty barb approaches Bison river, it's two steps away. There's one american champion in Bison River, I play risky and count that he can win by attacking if the barb comes next to Bison River.
I send Persia 39gp+1gpt for Alphabet (is now due in 6). Start mathematics, due in 19.
IBT:
Barb moves N, whuh! Another barb appears next to Scout in S.
2670BC(7):
Nothing.
2630BC(8):
Little Bighorn scout -> tribal guardsman.
Babylons have invented something and sold it to Babylons as now they are 300gp richer and babys that much poorer.
2590BC(9):
Our scout in South is trying to avoid the barb by retreating.
2550BC(10):
Move scouts, the southern Scout has been able to evade the barb there. That barb was seen TWO turns ago S,SW. Next player should be careful in that direction.
The other barb moved (looking from Bison River) from square E,E,N to E 2 turns ago.
Babys and Persia are still without Mathematics, we have it due in 12.
Good luck!
THE SAVE
grs
nameless one
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Mathematics is a good choice for exactly the reasons you mention, but after Scrape Mining. I think we need to fight Babylon very soon. I probably would build nothing but Military after founding the 3rd city (which I'd found exactly 3 E of the capital).
As soon as we can trade somehing for Math, declare. If Babylon gets Math before, consider striking even earlier.
Under Chiefdom, they cannot rush anything, and we can build Champions for 10sp against TGs/Bowman for 12sp.
Edit:
grs, red is fine. Blue is too close to the capital. Better found a city later on the Hills 2NE still grabbing the Camel. Later= after Babylon got trimmed.
As soon as we can trade somehing for Math, declare. If Babylon gets Math before, consider striking even earlier.
Under Chiefdom, they cannot rush anything, and we can build Champions for 10sp against TGs/Bowman for 12sp.
Edit:
grs, red is fine. Blue is too close to the capital. Better found a city later on the Hills 2NE still grabbing the Camel. Later= after Babylon got trimmed.
grs
nameless one
Not much happened.
Wounded Knee was founded in 2350BC and the Germans where meet at the same time. No trade, no maths. In 2310BC Persia takes Ashur from Babylon and we lose a Champion to babs. In 2150 we lose a Tribal Guardsmen to barbs.
There are at least 2 barb raiders about 4-5 tiles s/se of Little Bighorn and 1 directly s of Bison River.
Only good thing is, we get maths in 1 turn and none of our 3 neighbours has it yet.
Wounded Knee was founded in 2350BC and the Germans where meet at the same time. No trade, no maths. In 2310BC Persia takes Ashur from Babylon and we lose a Champion to babs. In 2150 we lose a Tribal Guardsmen to barbs.
There are at least 2 barb raiders about 4-5 tiles s/se of Little Bighorn and 1 directly s of Bison River.
Only good thing is, we get maths in 1 turn and none of our 3 neighbours has it yet.
Pfeffersack
Deity
Guess it is my turn now...got it.If I understand DocTS correctly, the next object is trading math to the civs we have contact with and get as much as possible for it.And then declaring war on Babylon?
EDIT: Fully agree with grs after viewing the current situation.I don't think war makes much sense at the moment...Babylon outnumbers us in forces and we have to deal with the barbarians first.
EDIT: Fully agree with grs after viewing the current situation.I don't think war makes much sense at the moment...Babylon outnumbers us in forces and we have to deal with the barbarians first.
grs
nameless one
Well Babylon is in trouble through Persian attacks, but take a decent look at our military before you decide on something. I really left you a crap and we have a barb problem.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
If Babylon cannot expand anyway, I completely agree with no war atm - but build up military, Champions rule against Warriors and TGs. If we don't jump on Hammu soon, we essentially waste half of a trait.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
I'm not sure if I have played Deity Dyp before, but I am sure that the extra settler means that Babylon must go soon. I agree on the early war. I am not sure that 10shield champions vs 12 shield bowmen is that huge an advantage, but at this level you need to make the most of what you have. The question is, how many units do you need at this point?
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Compared to the usual Diety production advantage, 10 vs. 12 sp is great (ok, Babs should be in a GA). However, they loose their usefulness once they face 1.3.1 Spears instead of Def 2 Bowman/TGs.
I think we have to check often F3 just to see when AI enters monarchy and use that time to estimate how long we have until they get spearmen.
I can't check the save now, but will do so in the evening. It really seems that war is emminent.
Btw. I'm currently crossing my fingers and hoping that we get math first and therefore a trade option to catch up. Maybe my gamble works out after all!
I can't check the save now, but will do so in the evening. It really seems that war is emminent.
Btw. I'm currently crossing my fingers and hoping that we get math first and therefore a trade option to catch up. Maybe my gamble works out after all!
Pfeffersack
Deity
Tinkez said:I think we have to check often F3 just to see when AI enters monarchy and use that time to estimate how long we have until they get spearmen.
I can't check the save now, but will do so in the evening. It really seems that war is emminent.
Btw. I'm currently crossing my fingers and hoping that we get math first and therefore a trade option to catch up. Maybe my gamble works out after all!
It has payed out...we discovered Math first! I had a close look on AI governments each turn.Here is my log:
IBT:
+ the barb raider SW of Bison River decides to move a tile S instead of attaking
2110(1):
+ Got mathematics, research weaving(6t) (none of our neighbours has it and we might benefit from additional resources; urb would be possible to12(t)-also not known yet by the AI- but my experience show they get the non-optional techs very fast...and I'm not playing deity usually)
+ Little Bighorn: t. guardsman-->t. guardsman (5t)
+ Trade with Germany: math for masonry+50 gold
+ Bison River: h.c. -s-> worker housing (6t)
+ Trade with Persia. math+73gold+ 2gpt for scrape mining
+ Good news: We have an iron ressource in the SW of Little Bighorn/Bison River (~4 tiles away).I guess this tile would be agreat spot for the next city...
+ Trade with Babylon: they offer ritualism for math, 1 gold+1gpt (paying complete with lump sum wasn't possible); I decided
against that,since I don't want take away the option of declaring war for 20 turns.Instead I traded math for pottery+1 gold
+ Lux slider down to 0%.
2070(2):
zzz
IBT
+ barb raider moves west, away from bison river
+ babylon brings a tribal guardsman as defense for the settler east of Bison River...guess they preparing for settling
2030(3):
zzz
IBT:
+ 2 persian tribalguardsmen are heading towards Ashur
+ another barb raider shows up of the fog and heads to wards Bison River, while his twin is moving towards Little Bighorn
1990(4):
+ bad news: all of our neighbours have already learned weaving and urbanization
IBT:
+ persian tribal guardsman invades our territory S Wounded Knee
+ both raiders are now heading towards little Bighorn
1950(5):
+ Wounded Knee: tribal guardsman --> american champion (2 turns)
IBT:
+ Babylon demands 20 gold tribute...decided to give in this time...20 gold are not worth war if you aren't ready...
+ the 2 raiders approach tiles outside Little Bighorn and new one shows up, heading towards Wounded Knee from S (2 tiles away)
+ Babylon founds Uruk E of our capital
1910(6):
+ got weaving, research now urbanisation (reason: preq. for Dynasticism) (8 turns)
+ sad news: no ressources from weaving - only babylon has 2 sheeps in mountains
+ Bison River: worker housing -> tribal guardsman (3 turns)
+ Little Bighorn: tribal guardsman --> worker housing (8 turns) (to get production 5 spt)
IBT:
+ the raiders pass Little Bighorn instead of attacking (I guess they go for a Babylonian target instead), while the single one progresses towards Wounded Knee and is now one tile outside S - I decided against an attack with the 2 a.c. there, since they are only regular, the barb is on hill and you don't get a barb combat bonus on Deity
+ Babylon establishes embassy
1870(7):
+ Wounded Knee: american champion --> american champion (2 turns)
IBT:
+ Barbarian attack at Wounded Knee! The spearman defends sucessful without even losing a hitpoint!
+ One of the raiders near Little Bighorn threatens the worker
1830(8):
+ attacking the raider results in loss of the a.c. in Wounded Knee (barb damaged down to 2 hp), I decide to retreat the worker inside the city
IBT:
+ A new barb raider shows uo SW of Little Bighorn, the damaged one pillaged the road on tile, while the other moves toward Bison River
1790(9):
+ Bison River: Tribal Guardsman--> worker(2t) (Bison river has grown and I want to road an additional flood plain - the two shields more on another bison-forest would be lost when building american champions)
+ Wounded Knee: american champion --> american champion(2t)
+ one of our scouts discovered a barbarian ancampment N of München (and probably will pay this discovery with his life)
+ noticed that Babylon and Germany are now in anarchy (persia remains still in chiefdom)
IBT:
+ A barbarian RIDER shows up SW of Wounded Knee
+ the injured one retreats N towards Babylon
1750(10)
+ Persia is now in Anarchy, too...while Babylon has entered Monarchy!
End report: Our military consists now of 5 tribal guardsmen and 3 american champions.We will research urbanization in 5 turns.
Pfeffersack
Deity
Similar threads
