DocT5- The RaR Deity Trial
- Thread starter Doc Tsiolkovski
- Start date
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Trust me
Doubt it. Most likely a small Wonder.
grs
nameless one
I got it..
grs
nameless one
Some things:
Our rep is not trashed. We still could buy with gpt, but our lousy income combined with the inability to 100% treasury keeps us away from that.
What is our gameplan now? I read about attacking Babylon and Persia, but nothing has been done in that direction. We only have one barracks! BTW, there seems to be a bug not showing barracks in the city screen (see below).
I see us building 3 more cities in the sw and that's it.
So we need some kind of military to get more land. So I would aim to settler asap and build some barracks in my turns. We need to attack soon.
Our rep is not trashed. We still could buy with gpt, but our lousy income combined with the inability to 100% treasury keeps us away from that.
What is our gameplan now? I read about attacking Babylon and Persia, but nothing has been done in that direction. We only have one barracks! BTW, there seems to be a bug not showing barracks in the city screen (see below).
I see us building 3 more cities in the sw and that's it.
So we need some kind of military to get more land. So I would aim to settler asap and build some barracks in my turns. We need to attack soon.
We can't build barracks until we know Military tradition, and that is still some time away.
Our capitol can build veteran units as it has palace. Also cities with forbidden palace, winter palace, etc., can build veteran units.
There was not much to be done on the unit front during my turns due the anarchy and the aggressive settling I did to get those last city spots available. I really think we should start getting some military now and do some pointy stick research to get us closer to literature.
The question is which nation is the weakest? Babylonians are the closest and they have already had their golden age. The negative side on that is that it's a wide front if we attack them.
Persians are further away and the jungle would be difficult.
In my opinion Germans are out of question as we would have to stretch too far and that would leave our lands exposed for Persians for example.
Our capitol can build veteran units as it has palace. Also cities with forbidden palace, winter palace, etc., can build veteran units.
There was not much to be done on the unit front during my turns due the anarchy and the aggressive settling I did to get those last city spots available. I really think we should start getting some military now and do some pointy stick research to get us closer to literature.
The question is which nation is the weakest? Babylonians are the closest and they have already had their golden age. The negative side on that is that it's a wide front if we attack them.
Persians are further away and the jungle would be difficult.
In my opinion Germans are out of question as we would have to stretch too far and that would leave our lands exposed for Persians for example.
grs
nameless one
Oops
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
The sword icon indicates any city improvement allowing for vet ground units (Palace in this case), not only Barracks.
I'm against a bigger war in the next time. We need to get infra on our cities first. Shield costs of units go way up, no chance to keep up with the AI without production boosters. To be able to afford Forges etc everywhere, we need commerce buildings and so on.
And we won't have much luck with pointy stick research towards Literature, the AI usually avoids Drama, Poetry etc.
Believe me, we're way better off when we develop our core now, get up the needed small wonders (Heroic, FP, Training Camp), collect a nice stack of MWs, and strike later. RaR doesn't work with empty cities.
Btw, what are we building a Galley for? Can't enter Ocean anyway, so no suicide runs, and Trading Ships are better naval transports.
You're all aware that COnstruction allows for Mines? Obviously, this is another argument against a war now - the AI will have them all over the place already...
I'm against a bigger war in the next time. We need to get infra on our cities first. Shield costs of units go way up, no chance to keep up with the AI without production boosters. To be able to afford Forges etc everywhere, we need commerce buildings and so on.
And we won't have much luck with pointy stick research towards Literature, the AI usually avoids Drama, Poetry etc.
Believe me, we're way better off when we develop our core now, get up the needed small wonders (Heroic, FP, Training Camp), collect a nice stack of MWs, and strike later. RaR doesn't work with empty cities.
Btw, what are we building a Galley for? Can't enter Ocean anyway, so no suicide runs, and Trading Ships are better naval transports.
You're all aware that COnstruction allows for Mines? Obviously, this is another argument against a war now - the AI will have them all over the place already...
I also feel war would be difficult at the moment. One thing we can do is build the occasional chariot for upgrade purposes, but right now our best attack unit is 2. That won't go far vs the AI.
The AI also has had mining since at least the beginning of my turns and so has a lot more shields than us.
So I agree on infra now. We can plan towards war when we get knights; barracks, and our UU.
Note that I was considering building up a force on my turn. One major problem though was that unit support was very low (1 per town). We were spending 3 in unit support and our cash was negative with no way to raise it. So we couldn't have built up the military even if we had wanted to.
I missed the point where the Palace Gardens gave tourism. I don't think we should have built it anyway on my turns as 2 more gold would have been a bad idea. We needed the extra city much more no matter how nice the gardens will be in the future. As it was I had to turn off ALL building and unit builds as we couldn't afford the maintanance (until we got Myst before the AI and got some cash). We can probably build them now though.
The AI also has had mining since at least the beginning of my turns and so has a lot more shields than us.
So I agree on infra now. We can plan towards war when we get knights; barracks, and our UU.
Note that I was considering building up a force on my turn. One major problem though was that unit support was very low (1 per town). We were spending 3 in unit support and our cash was negative with no way to raise it. So we couldn't have built up the military even if we had wanted to.
I missed the point where the Palace Gardens gave tourism. I don't think we should have built it anyway on my turns as 2 more gold would have been a bad idea. We needed the extra city much more no matter how nice the gardens will be in the future. As it was I had to turn off ALL building and unit builds as we couldn't afford the maintanance (until we got Myst before the AI and got some cash). We can probably build them now though.
grs
nameless one
Pre: Change Dakota to forge, Little Big Horn to hardy pioneer.
IBT: Babylon declares on Germany and completes Sun Tzu's.
730BC: ..
IBT: Barb horse kills a guardsman in Dakota.
710BC: Kill the horse. Nakota founded.
IBT: Bismark demands 28gold - ok. China completes Silk Road.
690BC: Block the Babylonian pioneer.
IBT: Barb uprising near Nakota.
670BC: ...
IBT: Bronze working - construction.
650BC: ...
IBT: 4 Barb horses show.
630BC: I remove the block to protect Nakota.
IBT: ...
610BC: Defeat a barb horse.
IBT: ...
590BC: ...
570BC: ...
550BC: Construction in defeat the remaining horses together with the Babylonians and get 2 slaves.
Babylonians will probably get sugar before us for being braver with advancing the settler as I was
IBT: Babylon declares on Germany and completes Sun Tzu's.
730BC: ..
IBT: Barb horse kills a guardsman in Dakota.
710BC: Kill the horse. Nakota founded.
IBT: Bismark demands 28gold - ok. China completes Silk Road.
690BC: Block the Babylonian pioneer.
IBT: Barb uprising near Nakota.
670BC: ...
IBT: Bronze working - construction.
650BC: ...
IBT: 4 Barb horses show.
630BC: I remove the block to protect Nakota.
IBT: ...
610BC: Defeat a barb horse.
IBT: ...
590BC: ...
570BC: ...
550BC: Construction in defeat the remaining horses together with the Babylonians and get 2 slaves.
Babylonians will probably get sugar before us for being braver with advancing the settler as I was
Pfeffersack
Deity
Got it.Will have a look on the save and situation now and propably play tonight.
Pfeffersack
Deity
One question: Is the low research speed intended? It would be possible to research civil engineering in 6 turns with +0 turn cash flow, at the moment is 13t/+18.My idea would be increasing funding, but before making another mistake... Is the plan stacking cash for updates or maximizing research? I have browsed the last logs again, but didn't find a clear answer 
EDIT: Thanks for the answer and after reading DocTS notes again, it makes sense for me, too.We already have Construction and the next tech CE isn't needed really fast (mills are nice, but no need to have the abilities to build them before forges are in place...aquaeducts aren't needed at the moment too).And since the AI is in tech lead there is also no trading option and catching up at the moment is impossible.
EDIT: Thanks for the answer and after reading DocTS notes again, it makes sense for me, too.We already have Construction and the next tech CE isn't needed really fast (mills are nice, but no need to have the abilities to build them before forges are in place...aquaeducts aren't needed at the moment too).And since the AI is in tech lead there is also no trading option and catching up at the moment is impossible.
grs
nameless one
We have zero research put into any tech, that is all. I did not research slow.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Errr...nothing wrong with grs' choices, but shouldn't we seriously head for Literature now? 
grs
nameless one
Sure, but we wanted mining first and that is as far as we are right now.
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I think that the point here is that we need a standard library before the GL. Therefore it would have been OK to research mining after Lit and whilst the standard library was being built. However, Having mining first will allow us to have mines in place for Lit. The question is "will the the extra productivity claw back the turns we spent researching mining?" It probably won't IMVHO.
Not that it matters. If we don't get the GL it will just mean we get to start our next RaR game that bit earlier.
Not that it matters. If we don't get the GL it will just mean we get to start our next RaR game that bit earlier.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
With the AI production bonus, trying for the GLib is completely pointless unless we have a city that makes 25+spt, and the Library sp already done when we discover Literature. The AI will demand that almost 100%. And, there's always the chance the AI knows Lit even before us.
grs: Note I agreed completely with your choices; we may have been able to trade for Construction with Drama or Poetry, but not a bad idea to get Construction ASAP. But after this one, we either need to head for Literature, or Mounted Archery. Anything else should cost us the game.
Btw, do we have the Palace Gardens already? I think you're not completely aware how much the Tourist bonus helps; two of those (Palace Gardens and The Academy) will be about equal to the Colossus when doubled! And with all the comercial/scientific buildings, that may mean about 50gpt/50 Beakers pt....
grs: Note I agreed completely with your choices; we may have been able to trade for Construction with Drama or Poetry, but not a bad idea to get Construction ASAP. But after this one, we either need to head for Literature, or Mounted Archery. Anything else should cost us the game.
Btw, do we have the Palace Gardens already? I think you're not completely aware how much the Tourist bonus helps; two of those (Palace Gardens and The Academy) will be about equal to the Colossus when doubled! And with all the comercial/scientific buildings, that may mean about 50gpt/50 Beakers pt....
Pfeffersack
Deity
Ok, I am still in my first turn, so I will change research and go for Literature with maxed research.The palace gardens are under construction and will be finished in 5 turns.
Pfeffersack
Deity
A really interesting set of turns.Here is the log:
PT 550BC---
IBT:
Babylon has settled the spot SE of the sugar
1-530 BC Bison River Spearman-->Palace Gardens (5t)
Oglala Spearman--> Worker (4t) [thought an additional worker would be good; why not connect the additonal sugar and trade it?]
Decided to move settler back north - I don't see here another spot for settling
Research switched to Poetry (6 turns/+9 cash flow)
Research funding increased to 50%, lux decreased to 0%
IBT:
Babylon demands 30 gold.Caved in.
2-510 BC ---
3-490 BC
Upcoming unhappiness problem in Santee.Since the lux slider would affect it only by setting it high to 60%, I decide to convert a citizien into a taxman instead, which will starve one citizien next turn.
IBT:
A Persian Champion and an Immortal (two tiles behind) are heading towards Persian territorium...or towards Hunkpapa!
4-470 BC
Oglala: worker --> shrine (6 turns)
Begin to move our Champion in Persia back to use it as MP in Santee
Similar happiness problem; this turn in Nakota.Taxman causes growth to stagnate.
IBT:
The Persian units went to S, no danger so far.
5-450 BC
Little Bighorn: temple--> shrine (4 turns)
Ashur: spearman--> worker (2 turns)
Wounded Knee: spearman --> shrine (6 turns)
Dakota: shrine --> forge (10 turns)
IBT:
Spotted 2 Babylonian settler units in Persian territory, moving SE direction.
6-430 BC
Bison River complete Palace Gardens! --> slavemarkt(1 turn) Converted one citizien into taxman to avoid unrest next turn due the completed slave market (not a big problem as the granary has a lot of food stored)
Hunkpapa: spearman --> worker (2 turns)
Ashur expands border, cotton is now within border.Will connect it ASAP.
7-410 BC
Researched Poetry.Reseraching now: Philosophy (6 turns)
Bison River: slave market --> Chariot (2 turns) (taxman converted in entertainer to avoid disorder after IBT-Phase)
The borders of Santee expand, we have now three gems and the second exotic wood there under control!
Increased lux funding to 10% to put the entertainer in our capital in work again (no influence on situation in Nakota of course)
Increased science spending to 60%, research time: 5 turns (-2 cash flow now)
IBT:
Germany completes the Pyramids in Königsberg.
8-390 BC
Ashur woker--> shrine (14 turns)
Hunkpapa worker--> forge (14 turns)
Our Hardy Pioneer and the escorting archer has reached Hunkpapa.
IBT:
I guess Persia will attack us next turn...yet in last turn I thought their units would pass our cities, but now they are outside Santee.Only a champion in...I think it is quite clear what will happen...
9-370 BC
Bison River chariot-->chariot (2 turns) (first mine outside is completed, the city is now able to pull out between 25-30 shields every turn, depends on if it should grow also)
Little Bighorn: shrine--> forge (4 turns)
But shouldn't Persia pay for this nasty move? Why not buying a tech for gpt from them this turn... (I gave them 30GpT and 132 Gold for Riding, Code of Laws and Iron Working)
Then I demanded them leaving our territorium (to get the chance to make the first strike)...THEY DECLARE WAR...our American Champion inside Santee kills the Immortal on the hill, get promoted and enslaves.Santee will fall of course, so I sell the monument for 3 gold... nevertheless I think it was the best what you can do with the situation...we can make peacew ith persia in a few turns and their military is not much bigger than ours.
IBT:
Babylon und Persia signed trade embargo against us.
Persia captured Santee (6 Gold lost)
10-350 BC
Oglala: shrine--> temple (10 turns)
Nakota: spearman--> spearman (10 turns) (taxman converted into laborer)
Our elite Champion was able to take Santee back! (11 gold captured) Production set to walls (8 turns)
Lux slider decreased to 0% (war happiness is a nice thing...)
End report: We will research Philosophy in 3 turns.War with Persia, Embargo with Babylon.
PT 550BC---
IBT:
Babylon has settled the spot SE of the sugar
1-530 BC Bison River Spearman-->Palace Gardens (5t)
Oglala Spearman--> Worker (4t) [thought an additional worker would be good; why not connect the additonal sugar and trade it?]
Decided to move settler back north - I don't see here another spot for settling
Research switched to Poetry (6 turns/+9 cash flow)
Research funding increased to 50%, lux decreased to 0%
IBT:
Babylon demands 30 gold.Caved in.
2-510 BC ---
3-490 BC
Upcoming unhappiness problem in Santee.Since the lux slider would affect it only by setting it high to 60%, I decide to convert a citizien into a taxman instead, which will starve one citizien next turn.
IBT:
A Persian Champion and an Immortal (two tiles behind) are heading towards Persian territorium...or towards Hunkpapa!
4-470 BC
Oglala: worker --> shrine (6 turns)
Begin to move our Champion in Persia back to use it as MP in Santee
Similar happiness problem; this turn in Nakota.Taxman causes growth to stagnate.
IBT:
The Persian units went to S, no danger so far.
5-450 BC
Little Bighorn: temple--> shrine (4 turns)
Ashur: spearman--> worker (2 turns)
Wounded Knee: spearman --> shrine (6 turns)
Dakota: shrine --> forge (10 turns)
IBT:
Spotted 2 Babylonian settler units in Persian territory, moving SE direction.
6-430 BC
Bison River complete Palace Gardens! --> slavemarkt(1 turn) Converted one citizien into taxman to avoid unrest next turn due the completed slave market (not a big problem as the granary has a lot of food stored)
Hunkpapa: spearman --> worker (2 turns)
Ashur expands border, cotton is now within border.Will connect it ASAP.
7-410 BC
Researched Poetry.Reseraching now: Philosophy (6 turns)
Bison River: slave market --> Chariot (2 turns) (taxman converted in entertainer to avoid disorder after IBT-Phase)
The borders of Santee expand, we have now three gems and the second exotic wood there under control!
Increased lux funding to 10% to put the entertainer in our capital in work again (no influence on situation in Nakota of course)
Increased science spending to 60%, research time: 5 turns (-2 cash flow now)
IBT:
Germany completes the Pyramids in Königsberg.
8-390 BC
Ashur woker--> shrine (14 turns)
Hunkpapa worker--> forge (14 turns)
Our Hardy Pioneer and the escorting archer has reached Hunkpapa.
IBT:
I guess Persia will attack us next turn...yet in last turn I thought their units would pass our cities, but now they are outside Santee.Only a champion in...I think it is quite clear what will happen...
9-370 BC
Bison River chariot-->chariot (2 turns) (first mine outside is completed, the city is now able to pull out between 25-30 shields every turn, depends on if it should grow also)
Little Bighorn: shrine--> forge (4 turns)
But shouldn't Persia pay for this nasty move? Why not buying a tech for gpt from them this turn... (I gave them 30GpT and 132 Gold for Riding, Code of Laws and Iron Working)
Then I demanded them leaving our territorium (to get the chance to make the first strike)...THEY DECLARE WAR...our American Champion inside Santee kills the Immortal on the hill, get promoted and enslaves.Santee will fall of course, so I sell the monument for 3 gold... nevertheless I think it was the best what you can do with the situation...we can make peacew ith persia in a few turns and their military is not much bigger than ours.
IBT:
Babylon und Persia signed trade embargo against us.
Persia captured Santee (6 Gold lost)
10-350 BC
Oglala: shrine--> temple (10 turns)
Nakota: spearman--> spearman (10 turns) (taxman converted into laborer)
Our elite Champion was able to take Santee back! (11 gold captured) Production set to walls (8 turns)
Lux slider decreased to 0% (war happiness is a nice thing...)
End report: We will research Philosophy in 3 turns.War with Persia, Embargo with Babylon.
Pfeffersack
Deity
Hmm, after reading my log again...I guess I have made a mistake again...at least I could have done much better with my trading.Missed the oportunity to get better techs by spliting the trade into smaller ones.First philosophy (although we are near completing it anyway) and then the rest of the more useful lower branch of the tech tree.Sorry...I was too angry about Persia at this point while planning my revenge
Finally got a chance to look at this.
Hard to tell how dangerous the Persians will be.
I wouldn't worry too much about not making the best trade. It was all free anyway.
A military build up might be in order. We are less likely to have the Lit tech demanded from us and more likely to be able to refuse if we do. This would help us get the GLib.
Doc, Would you mind updating the first post with the Roster. It is hard to find the single place it is posted.
Roster:
Greebley
Tinkez
grs
Pfeffersack - Just Played.
DocT - Up.
mad-bax - On Deck.
Hard to tell how dangerous the Persians will be.
I wouldn't worry too much about not making the best trade. It was all free anyway.
A military build up might be in order. We are less likely to have the Lit tech demanded from us and more likely to be able to refuse if we do. This would help us get the GLib.
Doc, Would you mind updating the first post with the Roster. It is hard to find the single place it is posted.
Roster:
Greebley
Tinkez
grs
Pfeffersack - Just Played.
DocT - Up.
mad-bax - On Deck.
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