Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[SemiLazyGamer]

Trump has rejected 60 Minutes program's traditional interview with presidential candidates scheduled to air at 8 pm EDT on October 8th.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1841236651994915183

 

[Cutlass]

I'm not sure the dockworkers will be able to stop the automation of ports in future decades?

NAW CEO calls on Biden to end union's 'premeditated attack' on US economy: Locked 'back in the Stone Age'

National Association of Wholesaler-Distributors CEO Eric Hoplin criticized President Biden for refusing to intervene in the port strike by invoking the Taft-Hartley Act.

www.foxbusiness.com

It looks like this is the end result:

The big companies made $billions during COVID.
I imagine this is a major thing they want to spend all that money upon?

The Teamsters issued a strong press-release supporting the striking dock-workers.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/teamsters-stand-international-longshoremens-association-021200854.html

They won't be. It's a completely unrealistic demand. Not to mention, just wrong for the economy. Evenb many of the traditional friends of labor are unhappy about this.

Strategically, I think they're being stupid. They think the timing overwhelmingly favors them. But it could backfire, and if Trump is elected, they could lose everything. So I think it's both that their demands are entirely off the charts, and their strategy is reckless.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I think I have a cool line for Walz.

Any point in the debate where it's appropriate to reference Trump. E.g. Trump called American soldiers suckers and losers.

Stick in a "or America's Hitler, as some of us call him"

Don't directly confront Vance with it: "You called Trump America's Hitler." He'll have some prepared answer for that.

Just assume him as a part of the group. "Trump--or America's Hitler, as some of us call him--called American soldiers suckers and losers."

 

[Kaitzilla]

The Vice-President debate is happening right now!

 

[Gori the Grey]

From the early going, it looks like it will be a draw. Vance is glib. Walz is authentic. They're both more really on policy than zingers.

Rare that anything in a VP debate would matter and it looks like that here too.

 

[ls612]

Feels to me like Walz has been on the defensive for much of the debate.

 

[Ajidica]

Yeah, Walz hasn't been great. Vance comes off as sleazy but also confident and comfortable.

 

[Gori the Grey]

But not pronounced enough to make a difference in a VP debate. It'll be a draw. What most commentators will say is they talked more substantively than the prez candidates. Moves the needle not at all.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Refer

I think I have a cool line for Walz.

Any point in the debate where it's appropriate to reference Trump. E.g. Trump called American soldiers suckers and losers.

Stick in a "or America's Hitler, as some of us call him"

Don't directly confront Vance with it: "You called Trump America's Hitler." He'll have some prepared answer for that.

Just assume him as a part of the group. "Trump--or America's Hitler, as some of us call him--called American soldiers suckers and losers."

I think invoking Hitler would be a third rail.

Walz is killing it right now on the issue he has been waiting the whole debate for... the ACA and Republicans wanting to repeal it, particularly pre-existing conditions.

 

[Gori the Grey]

"Damning non-answer" and "why Mike Pence isn't here" means that Walz got the mic drop.

Still, a draw. Vance is glib. Some see through it and it's a negative. Some don't and it comes off as confidence and competence.

Won't move the needle. Would take a lot for a VP debate to do so in any case. This moved no one.

 

[GenMarshall]

Stick in a "or America's Hitler, as some of us call him"

The less “Reductio ad Hitlerum” the better. Godwin needs to start charging royalties for invoking his law for the past decade or so.

 

[Takhisis]

Yeah, but it also includes the "most people don't know what a phone app is" craziness.

In a technical way, he's right for the entirely wrong reasons. Even he doesn't know what a software application is.

Pointed out on twitter but the comp here is not actually the Purge: a movie in which police were disempowered from intervening against (ostensibly) indiscriminate violence for a certain time without regard for target or outcome. Rather, Trump is proposing that police (and sympathetic private citizens) be enjoined to unleash maximum violence against a select group of private undesirables. It's Kristallnacht.

I was thinking more of those times when the KKK went and killed undesirables and then local law enforcement swore them in retroactively as deputies/auxiliaries for the day and then they claimed it was legitimate force and/or citizens' arrest.

The less “Reductio ad Hitlerum” the better. Godwin needs to start charging royalties for invoking his law for the past decade or so.

You might not know this, but ‘America first’ was the slogan of the pro-Nazi movement in the 1930s and '40s that tried to keep the USA out of WWII.
And Donald Trump claims that Nazis are good people, so there's that, too.

 

[Core Imposter]

I guess the truth is in the grave, the rumor that my German grandfather was beaten up for his German leanings the night he died of a heart attack. It could have happened but probably not, 1940. Everyone involved would have been workers in the textile mill. Not likely in a small town, right? Basically, at that time there was no interest in fighting the Germans.

Do you think the United States should declare war on Germany and send our army and navy abroad to fight?
Gallup, May 18-23, 1940 (German invasion of France)
Yes 7%
No 93%

Which of these two things do you think is the more important for the United States to try to do–to keep out of war ourselves or to help England win, even at the risk of getting into the war?
Gallup, June 27-July 3, 1940 (France is defeated and Great Brittain alone defended the West)
Help: 35%
Keep out: 71%

Which of these two things do you think is the more important for the United States to try to do–to keep out of war ourselves or to help England win, even at the risk of getting into the war?

Gallup, Sept. 19-25, 1940 (US draft is instituted)
Help 52%
Keep out: 44%

I doubt that my grandfather could have suffered a fatal beating in 1940 even if he had as big a mouth as his grandson. After Pearl Harbor it might have been different.

I think it made perfect sense to keep America out of the war. But the sanctions on Japan did the trick and will eventually get us in WW3 as well, unless we develop some common sense and elect a peacemaker rather than a random DEI hire last minute replacement candidate that is offering the country an opportunity to be nuked for meddling economy, which means something but has nothing to do with the unfolding conflict. Clearly Trump's policies are in the best interest of the country if you think it is in the best interest of the people for us to avoid the war, especially the nuclear part.

So, is the timing of this strike part of the Democratic plan? Is this the October surprise? How does this play out? Trump should let everyone know that this strike would have never happened if he were in the White House.

Moderator Action: Please stop trolling. leif

 

[GenMarshall]

You might not know this, but ‘America first’ was the slogan of the pro-Nazi movement in the 1930s and '40s that tried to keep the USA out of WWII.

It was actually coined by President Woodrow Wilson in his pledge to keep the US neutral and not involve itself in World War I in his 1916 campaign. So not really a slogan of a pro-Nazi movement when the slogan was coined while Hitler was in the hospital recovering from being wounded by an exploding shell in the Battle of the Somme on October of 1916.

You have my permission to scream 'WILLLLLLSON!!!" off the top of your lungs.

 

[Core Imposter]

The America First Committee (AFC) was an American isolationist pressure group against the United States' entry into World War II.[1][2] Launched in September 1940, it surpassed 800,000 members in 450 chapters at its peak.[3] The AFC principally supported isolationism for its own sake, and its varied coalition included Republicans, Democrats, farmers, industrialists, communists, anti-communists, students, and journalists – however, it was controversial for the anti-Semitic and pro-fascist views of some of its most prominent speakers, leaders, and members.

America First Committee - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I guess it is plausible that Gramps belonged to this. I need to check his date of death.

 

[Angst]

watching the debate, taking notes, will stop at some point

opening statements/israel.
- walz is not as energetic as he is during his rallies.
- vance initiates by trying to disengage his own national repoir of elitism, weirdness, and alienation (constructing a discourse where he's part of the people y'all, instead of talking about israel as the question posed)
right after that, walz gets full energy, stops with the uhms and talks like he used to. good.
weird start in all.

climate change
- jd vance has a useful appeal there (even if it's complete nonsense that us is the cleanest state - it isn't - and therefore we should deregulate and dirty up industry); climate change doesn't really push voters as much as worker-centric rhetoric.
- walz is again appealing down to earth (noting the very practical point i keep bringing that farmers have a hard time farming if it's a mixture of drought & being underwater)

immigration
- vance whines about southern border. walz brings up that the republicans blocked the bipartisan (and tough) immigration bill, but while detailed, the delivery is maybe a bit muddled. this is easily a soundbite, i'm not sure the thorough explanation of what went down will pull in as many voters.
- i'm generally unsure how much sway vance's immigrants-are-scary shpiel has on rust belt moderates, but i'm not well enough acquainted with the amount of points racism can get in that area. my impression is more that people are tired of losing manufacturing jobs.
- jesus f then vance argues with the moderator. jesus christ cut off his f'ing mic, it's the same thing as trump going off when they should just mute him. thank god they did. i think they cut off walz too, ofc.
- vance staring into the camera and ranting about scary phone apps is a rhetorical win for him. walz going "it's been on the books since 1990" is good, but i'm not sure it's strong enough.

sidenote, in general this debate sucks. it's on the format. the 2 minute stringent limit doesn't allow for as much engagement and counterpoints. i think nbc had a similar time limit, but this feels more like two monologues because the time is so restricted.

economy
- walz outlines a concrete plan, and does some attacks on trump. appeals to nurses and truckdrivers.
- vance says harris' policy is biden policy (again nonsense as to the concrete proposals), which is good rhetorically i believe.
- largest trade deficit in history in china is a good soundbyte.

35 mins in and i'm gonna eat now.
overall, looking forward to the rest. we'll see.
so far, i'm not sure how well it's going for the dems. walz simply isn't as tough on vance as he could be, which i think is unfortunate as vance is such a deeply strange, unpleasant, discomforting person. there's a lot of policy talk which could go either way depending on voter inclination, but so far i think vance succeeded in appearing somewhat normal and actively speaking. there's a huge difference between him speaking in this situation and him ... well, in any other situation. so while it may not move the needle, i'm uncomfortable watching it as i think a big part of the reps' goal here was to normalize vance, which succeeded. he just doesn't slip as much in debate as he does in literally any other situation, apparently.

 

[Core Imposter]

What is tripping you up there is that you have been fed edited Vance statements that have been presented out of context by the conspiring mainstream media. If you had been following Vance carefully you would have seen this and noted that it is much like the hatchet job they have always done on Trump. They're all a cabal of liars.

 

[GenMarshall]

What is tripping you up there is that you have been fed edited Vance statements that have been presented out of context by the conspiring mainstream media. If you had been following Vance carefully you would have seen this and noted that it is much like the hatchet job they have always done on Trump. They're all a cabal of liars.

I'm currently watching an archive footage of the stream (The debate started about an hour before my shift ended). I don't know where you're getting the idea that Vance has been edited when it's a live debate.

 

[Gorbles]

What is tripping you up there is that you have been fed edited Vance statements that have been presented out of context by the conspiring mainstream media. If you had been following Vance carefully you would have seen this and noted that it is much like the hatchet job they have always done on Trump. They're all a cabal of liars.

What's tripping you up is that claims require evidencing. Go on, show us how they're being edited. Should be trivial, right?

 

[SemiLazyGamer]

Apparent Google Trends of what Top Political issues by state before and during the debate.

Source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1841324979821965626