Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[Sommerswerd]

And play the loyal deputy with a view to winning POTUS in 2028.

I think Vance is running a version of the same gambit that Tred Cruz tried (and failed) to pull off, except that Vance was cunning enough to flip-flop and become a Trump sycophant first, then weasel his way onto Trump's ticket, rather than running against Trump, losing and only then trying to get into his administration afterwards, which is the mistake that Cruz, Lindsey Graham, Ramaswamy, Tim Scott, Chris Christie, Marco Rubio and so many others made.

After they ran against Trump and lost, its too late to kiss up then, because he will always despise them for running against him. He only keeps them around to mock and humiliate them.

Vance is using Trump as a stalking horse, letting Trump collect up all the base and supporters for Vance to then inherit when Trump falls, either due to his mental health or criminal woes, or something else. Vance thinks he is going to be the heir to the MAGA throne

 

[Snowygerry]

Yeah exactly, he's playing the long game, it's gross tho

Not sure, everyone is acting as if Donald Trump is the end of history, more likely he is just a curiosity…
who in your opinion will be the next republican candidate after ?

This strikes me as the one possible way that Vance made a bigger contribution to Trump than Walz did to Harris.

Vance talked as though there were reasonable (boring, policy-wonk) grounds for all of his ticket's positions. If voters now credit Trump with those reasonable grounds for the positions he takes, rather than his actual grounds of grievance-du-jour (and say to themselves that Trump just doesn't want to get into them because he's a big-picture guy, but Vance shows that they're there), then he will have normalized Trump, and that's a big contribution.

Salonnfahig, the Germans invented a word for that.

Good luck with it.

 

[Takhisis]

It was actually coined by President Woodrow Wilson in his pledge to keep the US neutral and not involve itself in World War I in his 1916 campaign. So not really a slogan of a pro-Nazi movement when the slogan was coined while Hitler was in the hospital recovering from being wounded by an exploding shell in the Battle of the Somme on October of 1916.

You have my permission to scream 'WILLLLLLSON!!!" off the top of your lungs.

What you quote is in no way incompatible with the pro-Nazi stooges isolationists later appropriating the slogan for WWII.

 

[Birdjaguar]

From NYT:

Jamelle Bouie, Times columnist It’s a pretty straightforward verdict: Vance won this debate. It’s not hard to see why. He has spent most of his adult life selling himself to the wealthy, the powerful and the influential. He is as smooth and practiced as they come. He has no regard for the truth. He lies as easily as he breathes. We saw this throughout the debate. He told Americans that there are 20 million to 25 million “illegal aliens” — a lie. He told Americans that Mexico is responsible for the nation’s illegal gun problem — a lie. He told Americans that Trump actually tried to save the Affordable Care Act — a lie. If Vance had to sell the benefits of asbestos to win office, he would do it well and do it with a smile.

 

[Voidwalkin]

VP debate won't move the needle. Doubt the strike will, unless Biden forces them back.

Last remaining real October shakeup foreseeable is if Israel strikes Iranian nuclear facilities. I don't think they will, but it's not implausible.

 

[SemiLazyGamer]

Federal judge unsealed a motion by Special Counsel Jack Smith which says Smith thinks that Trump still should be tried on his crimes in an attempt to overturn the election because he did so in a private capacity, bypassing the recent SCOTUS ruling saying presidents have immunity.

It also includes a evidence in regards to the timeline between election night 2020 and the insurrection.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/02/trump-special-counsel-evidence-election-harris.html

For example, the filing said that on Nov. 4, 2020, a campaign employee and Trump “co-conspirator” tried to sow confusion about the vote count that was underway at the TCF Center in Detroit, which “looked unfavorable to” Trump.

The filing said that when the co-conspirator was told that a batch of votes appeared to be heavily in favor of Biden, he replied, “find a reason it isn’t,” so as to “give me options to file litigation,” adding, “even if it [is].”

When a colleague suggested to the co-conspirator that this could risk creating a scene reminiscent of the so-called “Brooks Brothers Riot” — an infamous bid to interfere with Florida’s vote-counting effort in the 2000 presidential election — the co-conspirator “responded, ‘Make them riot’ and ‘Do it!!!,’” according to the filing.

The special counsel also wrote that then-Vice President Mike Pence tried to “gradually and gently” convince Trump to accept his election loss, providing numerous examples.

On Nov. 7, 2020, as major news outlets called the race for Biden, Pence “tried to encourage” Trump to accept that the race was over, telling the president, “You took a dying political party and gave it a new lease on life,” according to the filing.

And in a private lunch on Nov. 12, Pence offered Trump a potential way to save face politically and also wind down his challenges to the election results: "Don't concede but recognize [the] process is over," Pence told his boss, according to the filing.

Four days later at another private lunch, Pence tried to urge Trump to accept the election results and to run again in 2024, the filing said.

Trump replied, "I don't know, 2024 is so far off," according to the filing.
On Dec. 21, Pence "encouraged" Trump "not to look at the election 'as a loss -- just an intermission,'" the filing said.
Later that day, Trump asked Pence in the Oval Office, "What do you think we should do?"
Pence replied that if all options were exhausted and "we still came up short," then Trump "should 'take a bow,'" according to the filing.
Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, a leading promoter of false voter fraud claims after the 2020 election, features prominently in the special counsel's filing.
As Trump pursued long-shot lawsuits seeking to overturn his losses in key states, he "sidelined" campaign staff who told him the truth about his defeat. Instead, he increasingly turned to Giuliani, "a private attorney who was willing to falsely claim victory," the special counsel alleged.

Giuliani, who is referred to in the redacted filing as "CC1," short for co-conspirator #1, occasionally made claims so patently false that they were openly rebuked by his fellow Republicans.

For instance, after Giuliani falsely claimed that Pennsylvania had collected far more completed absentee ballots than it had mailed out, Justin Riemer, then-chief counsel of the Republican National Committee, tweeted about Giuliani's claim, writing, "This is not true."

In a private email, Riemer expressed concern that what Giuliani and others "are doing is a joke and they are getting laughed out of court," according to the filing.

The special counsel alleged that after Giuliani learned of Riemer's tweet and email, the former New York City mayor called Riemer and left him a threatening voicemail.

"I really do need an explanation for what you said today because if there isn't a good one, you should resign. Got it? So call me or Ill call the boss and get you to resign. Call me. It'd be better for you if you do," Giuliani allegedly said.

Giuliani also urged then-RNC chairwoman Ronna McDaniel to fire Riemer, the filing alleged.

Riemer was subsequently "relieved of his duties," the special counsel wrote.

 

[Narz]

Not sure, everyone is acting as if Donald Trump is the end of history, more likely he is just a curiosity…
who in your opinion will be the next republican candidate after ?

No idea.

 

[Angst]

watched the rest of the debate, i think myself that as a "win" it was a draw, but the reps may have won out since vance ended up appearing mostly reasonably normal. this is good for them because sucks so much for the ballot.

only real moment for me was it was incredibly strange to watch vance try (and probably succeed) schewing abortion access onto immigrants somehow. that this probably has mainstream appeal is completely insane to me and saddens me. even if you're angry with immigrants, you need to turn your brain on.

 

[Zardnaar]

Allan Lichtman. 9/10. Picks Harris in this one, as you say.

He picked her a while ago.

I think she well win. Vs March-June was leaning towards Trump.

 

[Narz]

I don't see it as a win for Vance. Appearing normal is such a low standard, pathetic really. How about honesty?

Are we meant to believe all of America's problems started under Biden/Harris and that Trump magically gonna restore booming stock market and make all our plastic bull**** locally? Drill baby drill? You kidding me?

This is the future of humanity not trying to sell a used car. Walz could've done better but Vance, however slick cannot sell Trump as wise, caring or competent to anyone with half a brain.

I agree that this won't move the needle much, hopefully it won't have to.

 

[Farm Boy]

If Vance had to sell the benefits of asbestos to win office, he would do it well and do it with a smile.

Strange to think "we're all so rich" so as to forget about the need the great insulator filled.

 

[sophie]

I can’t believe we’re calling this “appearing normal”

Yes days after proposing a night of broken glass to cleanse the moral degradation of this country we’re going to go live on tv and advocate for the mass deportation and expropriation of the property of that same group of people for the enrichment of the fatherland. And this is a perfectly normal thing for someone to say. On equal footing with a tax incentive for new home construction.

 

[KaibaCorp]

the question is: what issue can the modern maga cultist party not blame on immigration?

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Where would they deport the illegal immigrants? Canada and Mexico won't let them in. They'll be stuck on the borders. Texas will pay for the refugee camps?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Federal land? A perfect solution. Most of it has no infrastructure, no jobs, is in the middle of nowhere and is inhospitable with ut a massive federal program to improve it.

 

[Angst]

I don't see it as a win for Vance. Appearing normal is such a low standard, pathetic really. How about honesty?

Are we meant to believe all of America's problems started under Biden/Harris and that Trump magically gonna restore booming stock market and make all our plastic bull**** locally? Drill baby drill? You kidding me?

This is the future of humanity not trying to sell a used car. Walz could've done better but Vance, however slick cannot sell Trump as wise, caring or competent to anyone with half a brain.

I agree that this won't move the needle much, hopefully it won't have to.

i think this was for me. so ok, i see it as a "win" for reps mostly because appearing normal levels out vance's reputation. if he indeed managed to do so. so to be clear: i had no claims that it was somehow a high standard to aim for or maintain. he is still ridiculous, and it's ridiculous that the party's success depends on not looking like insane people. it's indeed the lowest bar.

 

[Angst]

I can’t believe we’re calling this “appearing normal” View attachment 705012

Yes days after proposing a night of broken glass to cleanse the moral degradation of this country we’re going to go live on tv and advocate for the mass deportation and expropriation of the property of that same group of people for the enrichment of the fatherland. And this is a perfectly normal thing for someone to say. In equal footing with a tax incentive for new home construction.

for "appearing normal", it's nothing to do with policy, it has to do with decour. vance has been exceptionally awkward and/or outright disgusting in a number of appearances, and this goes beyond his policy; just his manner of presence and speech. so him speaking like a regular person here, even as a politician, even with the insane crap he's pushing, i want to stress it's about presentation, not content. what the reps want indeed range from the abnormal to the morally hideous - and i'd append a number of swear words at their policy if not for forum rules - my point was solely about optics. from what i could tell, it's the standard practice of presenting abhorrent goals in a manner of speech that doesn't seem abhorrent. i do not like it.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Melania tries to monetize an interview with CNN to promote her book.

CNN requested an interview with Melania Trump. Her book publisher asked for $250,000 in exchange​

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/03/politics/melania-trump-book-cnn-interview/index.html

 

[Sommerswerd]

Federal land? A perfect solution. Most of it has no infrastructure, no jobs, is in the middle of nowhere and is inhospitable with ut a massive federal program to improve it.

View attachment 705016

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[Takhisis]

the question is: what issue can the modern maga cultist party not blame on immigration?

Does Melania Trump supporting abortion rights count?