Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

Who do you think will win in November?


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Going purely by vibes, I don't think Trump will care to appoint a successor (unless hes planning on doing the Putin/Medvedev switcheroo)
He avoided prison which is all he cared about. He's got the senate, house and supreme court. Let's see if he actually does anything or if he just memes for two years then plays victim again when the Dems take one of them back in 2026.
 
Governor material certainly, not presidential.
His process and career path aren't entirely dissimilar to Trump.

He tests reactions to his ideas, even the controversial ones, and gets reactions and feedback. He consequently has a better sense of the zeitgeist and can defy orthodoxy better than conventional politicians and gets famous in the process, which provides a pretty devoted fan base, something quite necessary to avoid the 1st weedout in the Iowa caucus. Campaign and ideas legitimized after

He doesn't have Trump's drive to power and prestige and probably won't ever be interested in running, but he does have more of the necessary ingredients for success than perhaps any other living man.
 
I'll repeat my contention thatI believe they won't find one. I think people think they know what makes Trump so successful, and so there will be imitators. But I think that what does make him successful is a combination of traits, so most imitators will settle on the one or two that they believe are crucial, neglect the others, and so fail to capture the Trump magic (and come off as wannabees to boot). And some of the traits are well-nigh inimitable.

I'm not arguing that someone won't eventually emerge after Trump, and I'm not arguing that the next person who does prove successful with right-leaning voters might not be even worse than Trump. I'm just arguing that there will be a period in which a bunch of people try to be deutero-Trumps and fail.
Oh, I know, but what I said is that they'll continue trying to find Trumps.
 
Some employers prefer hiring undocumented migrants because you can pay them less and ask them to work more.

To the electorate, if the jobs were created, but were then filled by undocumented migratns, then what's the point?
There's a perception that many illegal aliens don't really work, have bogus asylum claims, commit an inordinate amount of crimes, and survive off of taxpayer-funded welfare alone (including primary education). Now I don't know how true this is, as stats are hard to come by at the federal level. But I think people's beef are mostly with a lack of fairness and clarity in the entire system. Namely, they simply don't believe the border patrol is doing a very good job. No matter how many illegal aliens there might ever be. And I can't say I disagree; that's sort-of a primary job of having an independent country.*

Personally, I wouldn't care if some illegal alien comes here and works their fingers to the bone. That's their choice to slave within a capitalist system. And in a way, that sort-of disproves the more-progressive notion that America is here to accept and care for anyone who just shows up. I would think...

*there's also the larger issue of many immigrants simply overstaying their visas, which is another problem...
So having had eight years of varieties on we hate Donald Trump in this forum,
I suppose, unless relieved by death, his or mine, I can expect another four.

This demonisation of the Donald didn't stop him getting elected in 2016 or 2024,
but then I suppose its an if whipping the boy don't cure him, whip him some more.

Such repetitive invective merely damages the ability to view him objectively.
If Ron Desantis was elected president I doubt very much the level of fearmongering going on here would not be all that different in terms of degree; in terms of substance maybe yes. There's been a perception since the Barack Obama years that individuals such as him naturally belong within the presidency and we aren't allowed to have any market corrections when things inevitably do go sour...I was quite young at the time but I don't remember any feeling that Bill Clinton was some natural fit for the White House in the 1990s and the very symbol of some political "movement"; he was merely a charismatic leader and comparatively more moderate...
 
Watching a lot of the responses to the election results is like watching cats and the red dots.
(hilarious)

<insert smartass comment about 'you're gonna need a bigger mop'> :P

I would suggest that the lefties try just talking to others who don't believe what they do.
Talk with I should say, there's been enough 'talking to'.

I'm outta this thread so final comment:

"I disagree vehemently with everything you said, but will defend to the death, your right to say it."
 
I would suggest that the lefties try just talking to others who don't believe what they do.
We do! Right here on this forum!

One of the really nice aspects of this forum, for me, is that we have articulate non-lefties who push back on the leftist consensus.

I attribute it in part to this being a gaming site rather than a political discussion site per se. More right-leaning posters can say to themselves (about the lefties) "you don't own Civ; I'm as big a fan as you; so you can't drive me out of this site with your hive-mind leftist political commentary."

I don't know if that's how the right-leaning posters actually think, but that's how I imagine them thinking.
 
4. Like last time. Unless treason or a fortuitous buying of the farm at a point which Vance doesn't make a hash of it.

Impossible. President Vance will result in the lowest Presidential approval ratings seen in US history.
 
And in a way, that sort-of disproves the more-progressive notion that America is here to accept and care for anyone who just shows up. I would think...
I don't know how true this is for america. But it has always been my impression, based largely on opinions here in Europe, that the broad masses of the working class do in fact NOT want their country to be there to care for and accept anyone and everyone in the world that shows up. In fact, they want the absolute opposite. They want their country to look after them, the citizens. And that the bulk of anti migration sentiment comes in no small part from the fact that when people see their country spending their tax money on helping foreigners as opposed to them they feel betrayed. Much in the same way a hungry child might feel betrayed if its mother was handing candy out to strangers but leaving none for them.

That is why you see internationalist sentiments like yours mainly in the upper middle class and above where most people have no existential fears, no need for actual help from the government and enough disposable income to afford charity. Where as most anti migrant sentiment comes from the working classes which do have existential fears, do need actual help and who feel somewhat justifiably that every euro spent on feeding foreigners is an euro not spent feeding them.
 
I like AOC but she has a 0% chance of being president. I know a lot of lefty people like to believe this fantasy that if the Dems just choose a socialist, everything will be good, but that’s just the lazy allure of not having to do years and decades of persuasion and recruiting to actually convince Americans that it can work here. It also weirdly means the party would get all the credit if AOC or Bernie was the nominee? It’s just dead end thinking. Every movement took years of work and organizing and brutal losses. Every single squad member has basically underperformed in their district; Omar does (even though she is great) and Cori Bush got primaried. Like I can dream of a Tlaib and AOC ticket but we are so, so far from that, with so much work to do.

Tlaib massively outperformed in her district.
 
I don't know how true this is for america. But it has always been my impression, based largely on opinions here in Europe, that the broad masses of the working class do in fact NOT want their country to be there to care for and accept anyone and everyone in the world that shows up. In fact, they want the absolute opposite. They want their country to look after them, the citizens. And that the bulk of anti migration sentiment comes in no small part from the fact that when people see their country spending their tax money on helping foreigners as opposed to them they feel betrayed. Much in the same way a hungry child might feel betrayed if its mother was handing candy out to strangers but leaving none for them.
It's the same in the US. This country has a long history of anti-immigrant laws and attitudes. The Ellis Island image people have in their heads only lasted like 30ish (1880s-WW1) years then it spurred some extreme backlash that almost totally blocked immigration during even apocalyptic events like WWII. Wouldn't be until LBJ in the 60's that we have more or less what we have today.
 
Watching a lot of the responses to the election results is like watching cats and the red dots.
(hilarious)

<insert smartass comment about 'you're gonna need a bigger mop'> :p

I would suggest that the lefties try just talking to others who don't believe what they do.
Talk with I should say, there's been enough 'talking to'.

I'm outta this thread so final comment:

"I disagree vehemently with everything you said, but will defend to the death, your right to say it."
Good to see you find genocide funny.
 
I don't know how true this is for america. But it has always been my impression, based largely on opinions here in Europe, that the broad masses of the working class do in fact NOT want their country to be there to care for and accept anyone and everyone in the world that shows up. In fact, they want the absolute opposite. They want their country to look after them, the citizens. And that the bulk of anti migration sentiment comes in no small part from the fact that when people see their country spending their tax money on helping foreigners as opposed to them they feel betrayed. Much in the same way a hungry child might feel betrayed if its mother was handing candy out to strangers but leaving none for them.

That is why you see internationalist sentiments like yours mainly in the upper middle class and above where most people have no existential fears, no need for actual help from the government and enough disposable income to afford charity. Where as most anti migrant sentiment comes from the working classes which do have existential fears, do need actual help and who feel somewhat justifiably that every euro spent on feeding foreigners is an euro not spent feeding them.

Yeah but the solution is to remove existential anxiety, not to spend decades exploiting a narrative of evil foreigners for political gain.
 
Watching a lot of the responses to the election results is like watching cats and the red dots.
(hilarious)
You may notice a severe lack of Rigged! accusations and a process of acceptation going on. There's no guy pointing a red dot at the Capitol.
The results back then were not hilarious unfortunately.

Maybe talking and listening to others who don't believe what you do might bring some insights in this difference in acceptance of election results. In a month or so you might reflect on the difference.

Nah ...
I'm outta this thread
 
Yeah but the solution is to remove existential anxiety, not to spend decades exploiting a narrative of evil foreigners for political gain.
Yes, precisely. The solution is for the country to care for its own people and remove their problems. Even if it means reducing or completely eliminating money wasted on other things. What ever those other things or people may be. Which is precisely what the people want, what every politician ever promises and what nobody ever does because doing so would erode the base of people they can rely to vote for them.
 
Yes, precisely. The solution is for the country to care for its own people and remove their problems. Even if it means reducing or completely eliminating money wasted on other things. What ever those other things or people may be. Which is precisely what the people want, what every politician ever promises and what nobody ever does because doing so would erode the base of people they can rely to vote for them.

Would you preferred solution involve more enforcement and punitive containment, before removing existential anxiety? Its this line that makes me wonder: "What ever those other things or people may be"
 
Yes, precisely. The solution is for the country to care for its own people and remove their problems. Even if it means reducing or completely eliminating money wasted on other things. What ever those other things or people may be. Which is precisely what the people want, what every politician ever promises and what nobody ever does because doing so would erode the base of people they can rely to vote for them.
So many questions. Which problems do you mean when you say: their problems? Don't different people have different problems? Don't those problems require conflicting solutions?

Which money for other things need to be eliminated? What if those things are someone's problem? Did we not want to remove them in the previous sentence?

Or ... is this satire and I'm falling for it because satire is becoming harder to detect lately?
 
So many questions. Which problems do you mean when you say: their problems. Don't different people have different problems? Don't those problems require conflicting solutions?
That's what elections are for.
 
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