Feds vs Farmer

Who are you siding with here?

  • Feds

    Votes: 10 58.8%
  • Farmer

    Votes: 7 41.2%

  • Total voters
    17

Aiken_Drumn

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Delaying deaths more than saving lives. Like I said, an own goal.

Well we all die.. but I don't want to derail into Covid. So lets stop one for now!
 

Samson

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Is anyone willing to defend the criminalisation of lung as food? Clearly bad for the environment, and I see no logic in the argument presented about pollen, fungal spores and stomach contents, since we eat stomachs.
 

Hygro

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No? Are you intentionally misunderstanding and misquoting now? It was being suggested that it was the ONLY thing pasteurisation does.

Thus there are zero benefits to raw milk, other than the occasional side serving of bacteria.
You said "no" but then describe your position as "yes".

The microbes are the point. No one thinks the percent of carbohydrates changes. No one is saying the amino acid content changes. Not all of what counts in food are what's limited to the nutrition facts accounting label.
 

Hygro

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Yeah so maybe don't be the obstacle to freedom when the topic is new to you?
 

Aiken_Drumn

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Yeah so maybe don't be the obstacle to freedom when the topic is new to you?

Wow, I never knew my true powers until now! Am I accidentally chairing a meeting at the UN again?
 
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Narz

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Aiken_Drumn

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Is this an area of research for you?

Is it yours?

Hilariously I am fairly confident I have more education/experience in this subject than most people here.. but happy to concede if not. NB. Drinking raw milk and googling stuff doesn't count.

Anyone else with a Zoology Degree, and a Diploma in Agriculture to swing their brain slong with me? Hopefully we have some Molecular Biologists or perhaps even better a Gastroenterologist?
 
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Aiken_Drumn

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Eating little organisms is big business. Along w yogurt & fermented veggies people are spending big bucks on probiotics, fermented drinks, stews, etc.

Our oversanitized society may be partially to blame for the rise in autoimmune issues people are having these days

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis

Of course. I don't want them in the soup of the lactate of another animal though.
 

Aiken_Drumn

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You're the one making the claims. I never said raw milk is or isn't better. Either way someone's right to eat something they like isn't really my business (unless I have to share a bed or bathroom w them)

I didn't claim it. I linked to evidence.

Those selling snake oil should be the ones providing proof..
 

Hygro

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Wow, I never knew my true powers until now! Am I accidentally chairing a meeting at the UN again?
Amazing, you live in a democracy and imagine no power, but your example of power is the UN.
 

El_Machinae

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If someone lives in a democracy and wants to effect change in the United States, then the UN might be the closest tool they can think of.

Eating little organisms is big business. Along w yogurt & fermented veggies people are spending big bucks on probiotics, fermented drinks, stews, etc.

Our oversanitized society may be partially to blame for the rise in autoimmune issues people are having these days

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis

This won't imply that unsafe bacteria are desirable, but the hygiene hypothesis is pretty sound. People need to play with more dirt.
The link provided upthread to healthline on the topic certainly gave reasonable credit to raw milk when it came to reducing autoimmune issues.
 

Hygro

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No one with a position to lose is going to bat for raw milk, but this is an area where science knows little but the preliminary discoveries are profound. Anyone can hide behind their pasteurized milk, but you’re welcome if my data point leads to a better understanding. Your gut flora will change your life, and we know very little the parameters of that. Someone has to get dirty.

“bacteria cause disease, let’s get rid of the germs” killed a lot of harmless germs and quite a few kids with consequent peanut allergies. But we didn’t know that until we did. It’s lucky when we’re right to follow science. It is realistic to expect more often that science follows us. Let it inform our hunches and educated guesses and self experiments so that it may gain hypotheses to test.
 
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Gorbles

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I never said raw milk is or isn't better.
And yet in your apparent fence-sitting you have repeatedly suggested it might be. Like when you said "people who eat these weird foods might end up living longer". You didn't say "they may also die earlier".

Kinda leads to a demonstrable position that isn't in the middle, despite your claim here that you haven't said anything either way.

This whole thread is really funny, mainly because it's a bunch of classically-libertarian opinions that have somehow hidden themselves in made-up food science instead. Why? There have been barely any links to actual citations of well . . . anything.

Stuff doesn't come true just because you want it to, folks. You can be against heavy-handed government intervention without trying to invent ways to get mileage out of unpasteurised milk.
 

Aiken_Drumn

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No one with a position to lose is going to bat for raw milk, but this is an area where science knows little but the preliminary discoveries are profound. Anyone can hide behind their pasteurized milk, but you’re welcome if my data point leads to a better understanding. Your gut flora will change your life, and we know very little the parameters of that. Someone has to get dirty.

“bacteria cause disease, let’s get rid of the germs” killed a lot of harmless germs and quite a few kids with consequent peanut allergies. But we didn’t know that until we did. It’s lucky when we’re right to follow science. It is realistic to expect more often that science follows us. Let it inform our hunches and educated guesses and self experiments so that it may gain hypotheses to test.

LOL, you're reveling your hand as a science sceptic. Since we've checked out from reality, we may as well check out of the conversation.
 

Hygro

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LOL, you're reveling your hand as a science sceptic. Since we've checked out from reality, we may as well check out of the conversation.
The only thing sceptic is your trouble with the English language. HAYO

Do I need to hold your hand through this? You can’t follow science if the science doesn’t exist. Science requires a scientist who must hazard a guess about where to go next. Those guesses are informed by the real and lived world around them and their hunches.

Let’s play with my favorite and easiest example. Schizophrenics like smoking cigarettes. Cigarette smoking had a positive correlation to schizophrenia. That was the only science we had. That and the general cigs are bad. So doctors said stop smoking, it’s possibly contributing to your schizophrenia and it’s bad, anyway.

If you followed what little science there was and science and stopped there, that was it. Fortunately, as there was more to know, schizophrenics kept smoking anyway. So some real human, a scientist, with a hunch, said let’s study further. Let’s have our science follow the actors going against the current advice of the current limit of science. Reread that.

And then they found that schizophrenia symptoms improved with nicotine. The science followed the action that led the science.

This is how real life works and science grows. That and giant electron microscopes.
 
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