Feds vs Farmer

[FriendlyFire]

I'm not sure what people are arguing. There seem to be two issues:
- some people want raw milk
- we force distributors of a certain size to have higher standards

What are people's arguments about these points, in this case?

Japanese consume raw eggs mostly safely because they changed agricultural practices, put in additional machines and safety regulations. It was done in a scientific way and Japan has a completely different chicken production process
Iam sure the same could be done for Raw milk. have scientist look at its feasibility and what agricultural process changes to make it possible.

 

[Samson]

Unhealthy is not the same as dangerous.

What is the distinction? I bet a higher percentage of those who consume them die of MaccyD's than unpasteurized milk.

No. These rules are not unjust.

Which rules? Where is the justice in banning haggis (the restriction on sale of lungs is one of the things he complained about)?

I'm not sure what people are arguing. There seem to be two issues:
- some people want raw milk
- we force distributors of a certain size to have higher standards

What are people's arguments about these points, in this case?

I do not see that "you are not allowed to sell unpasteurised milk or lungs" can accurately be described as "higher standards".

I doubt the raw milk people are advertising that their products contain deadly bacteria

I would be willing to bet that most if not all of those who buy unpasteurized milk are well aware that pasteurisation does one thing only, kill bacteria.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

Doesn't make you greedy though. If you grow 10,000 plants maybe.

Well now we're just slippery sloping!

I would be willing to bet that most if not all of those who buy unpasteurized milk are well aware that pasteurisation does one thing only, kill bacteria.

If that is the case, why do they want to buy this clearly inferior product?

They believe it does other negative things they are seeking to avoid.

I'm not sure what people are arguing. There seem to be two issues:
- some people want raw milk
- we force distributors of a certain size to have higher standards

What are people's arguments about these points, in this case?

We are essentially arguing if lemonade stands should be regulated or not. Except we aren't. We are also arguing if raw milk is safe to sell.

If raw milk is in such demand, find a way to produce it safely. (run through a scanner for bacteria perhaps?) then I would have no problem with it's sale.

What is the distinction? I bet a higher percentage of those who consume them die of MaccyD's than unpasteurized milk.

Its dangerous to go cliff diving, eating burgers is unhealthy.

I don't think you should be able to sell cliff diving tickets.

 

[Samson]

If that is the case, why do they want to buy this clearly inferior product?

I can only speak for myself, but it is because I have in the past been able to get it when it is hours rather than days old, so it is loads tastier.

Its dangerous to go cliff diving, eating burgers is unhealthy.

I don't think you should be able to sell cliff diving tickets.

Why is unpasturised milk more like cliff diving than MaccyD's? I would say that both unpasturised milk more and MaccyD's have benefits and costs compared to the alternatives, and those are pretty comparable with MaccyD's being worse overall. Also I would not criminalise this, so perhaps our differences are in something quite different.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

Why is unpasturised milk more like cliff diving than MaccyD's?

Because a single MaccyD's holds little to no risk what so ever. There's not really a situation it could make you ill or kill you without something going seriously wrong. You'd have to excessively eat for an extended period of time to make any headway into risk.

Cliff diving is riskier. Not always deadly, but magnitudes greater, with a clear and obvious risk element. Going wrong once can be deadly. Same with unpasturised milk.

For me (having worked on a dairy for six months) and has been a farmer for roughly 5 years.. There is no way in hell I would drink unpasturised milk. The levels of mastitis alone is disgusting. Though personally I've not drank milk for years now and prefer the alternatives.

 

[Samson]

Because a single MaccyD's holds little to no risk what so ever. There's not really a situation it could make you ill or kill you without something going seriously wrong. You'd have to excessively eat for an extended period of time to make any headway into risk.

Cliff diving is riskier. Not always deadly, but magnitudes greater, with a clear and obvious risk element. Going wrong once can be deadly. Same with unpasturised milk.

For me (having worked on a dairy for six months) and has been a farmer for roughly 5 years.. There is no way in hell I would drink unpasturised milk. The levels of mastitis alone is disgusting. Though personally I've not drank milk for years now and prefer the alternatives.

Fair enough, though that definition probably makes crack and smack unhealthy rather than dangerous. I would not be worried about mastitis bacteria in milk, I do not think they are really a cause of food borne disease.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

The Bottom Line.

Raw and pasteurized milk are comparable in their nutrient contents.

While raw milk is more natural and may contain more antimicrobials, its many health claims aren’t evidence-based and don’t outweigh potential risks like severe infections caused by harmful bacteria, such as Salmonella, E. coli and Listeria.

 

[Samson]

The Bottom Line.

Raw and pasteurized milk are comparable in their nutrient contents.

While raw milk is more natural and may contain more antimicrobials, its many health claims aren’t evidence-based and don’t outweigh potential risks like severe infections caused by harmful bacteria, such as Salmonella, E. coli and Listeria.

Criminal site [1] .

I make no health claims. I think unpasturised milk is nicer and is less likely to harm me than a MaccyD's if the milk comes from the UK herd where brucellosis is well controlled. I eat camembert, and that is more likely to give me listeriosis (compared to milk).

Spoiler [1] :

If you disallow cookies they will not let you read that article (they direct you to the "ad-free, tracking-free version"), which as I understand it breaches the GDPR.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

Ok, lets UK/US compare

UK: About 200 producers sell raw, or "green top" milk direct to consumers, either at the farm, at a farmers' market, or through a delivery service. The bottle must display the warning "this product has not been heat-treated and may contain organisms harmful to health", and the dairy must conform to higher hygiene standards than dairies producing only pasteurised milk.

I am 100% satisfied with this method of sale and market.

Did the original farmer for this thread adhere to these or similar standards?

 

[Narz]

I doubt the raw milk people are advertising that their products contain deadly bacteria

So can a raw salad or sushi. You go skiing you can die, you can fall off swings @ school & die. You can die 10000 ways from products in your local pharmacy.

 

[Narz]

Ok, lets UK/US compare

UK: About 200 producers sell raw, or "green top" milk direct to consumers, either at the farm, at a farmers' market, or through a delivery service. The bottle must display the warning "this product has not been heat-treated and may contain organisms harmful to health", and the dairy must conform to higher hygiene standards than dairies producing only pasteurised milk.

I am 100% satisfied with this method of sale and market.

Did the original farmer for this thread adhere to these or similar standards?

Pretty similar here iirc, it's been awhile since I lived in a state where raw dairy is legal. Milk doesn't agree w me but I did used to like raw goat cheese

 

[Narz]

If that is the case, why do they want to buy this clearly inferior product?

It's a sign of superiority tho. Like w sushi. You can cook the **** out of an old, semi-off piece of fish and serve it and people might not notice but when you're serving it raw better be damn sure it's so fresh and so clean

 

[Hygro]

I doubt the raw milk people are advertising that their products contain deadly bacteria

It generally doesn’t. Nb: harmful bacteria also generally doesn’t appear in strawberries.

It can, in the milk, but it’s a risk the producer can prevent. The producer is fully responsible for the branding, who the distributors are, and the product never gets “cut” along the way.

Fentanyl never shows up by accident.

 

[Farm Boy]

Reduce. The risk is never prevented. Different mentality.

 

[Hygro]

If that is the case, why do they want to buy this clearly inferior product?

Wait you thought raw milk buyers don’t know what pasteurization does/is for? As in, the lack of that knowledge was the driver for the market?

 

[El_Machinae]

It shouldn't really matter why they want to buy it. They prefer it. At a small scale, we can let them be responsible for their own risks. There is enough raw milk consumption going on that we know it's not some secret genocide of idiots.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

Wait you thought raw milk buyers don’t know what pasteurization does/is for? As in, the lack of that knowledge was the driver for the market?

No? Are you intentionally misunderstanding and misquoting now? It was being suggested that it was the ONLY thing pasteurisation does.

Thus there are zero benefits to raw milk, other than the occasional side serving of bacteria.

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

some secret genocide of idiots.

If only! Though we've had that with Covid-19

 

[El_Machinae]

If only! Though we've had that with Covid-19

Actually, we bent over backwards colluding with big business and restricting privileges and freedoms to people who now resent us for it, for very little gain.
As Hygro said about liberals losing hippies, sometimes it's an 'own goal'

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

Actually, we bent over backwards colluding with big business and restricting privileges and freedoms to people who now resent us for it, for very little gain.
As Hygro said about liberals losing hippies, sometimes it's an 'own goal'

I think the gain was saving millions of lives, hardly minor.