Ferguson

[Timsup2nothin]

I actually think there would have still been a riot if they had indicted him. It would have been a sort of "celebratory riot". From what I saw last night, it was clear a large number of the protestors present were looking for a fight no matter what.

No doubt.

If somebody is angry with me, I know I have two basic choices. I can beat them down, or I can give them something. Those people have been angry with their city, as represented by their mayor, their police department, and their county prosecutor, for a long time. Those worthies have opted for beating down rather than giving them anything. The mayor is clearly in favor of solving the current problem by just getting a bigger stick. The prosecutor made a mockery of his office, again, rather than give them anything like a fair proceeding. Their police gave them 'oh our batteries ran out so we didn't bother taking pictures, it was an officer who fired the shots so no need to really investigate or anything'...in other words, nothing.

Now, I'm as willing to hand out a good beat down as the next guy. But if the person that is angry at me is someone I just will not be able to avoid after the beating, and I can't kill them, I know that the beat down is not in any way going to be a permanent solution to the problem. Here's a news flash for the FPD...they are still going to have to live with these people after the next beat down they get administered, and even if the streets run rivers of blood that beat down is not going to make those people any less angry. The fact they need the national guard because the necessary beat down is beyond their own capacity should give them serious pause.

 

[Commodore]

No doubt.

If somebody is angry with me, I know I have two basic choices. I can beat them down, or I can give them something. Those people have been angry with their city, as represented by their mayor, their police department, and their county prosecutor, for a long time. Those worthies have opted for beating down rather than giving them anything. The mayor is clearly in favor of solving the current problem by just getting a bigger stick. The prosecutor made a mockery of his office, again, rather than give them anything like a fair proceeding. Their police gave them 'oh our batteries ran out so we didn't bother taking pictures, it was an officer who fired the shots so no need to really investigate or anything'...in other words, nothing.

Now, I'm as willing to hand out a good beat down as the next guy. But if the person that is angry at me is someone I just will not be able to avoid after the beating, and I can't kill them, I know that the beat down is not in any way going to be a permanent solution to the problem. Here's a news flash for the FPD...they are still going to have to live with these people after the next beat down they get administered, and even if the streets run rivers of blood that beat down is not going to make those people any less angry. The fact they need the national guard because the necessary beat down is beyond their own capacity should give them serious pause.

But what is the other option right now? They can't just let people run riot through the streets, burning and looting as they go. Considering that over a dozen businesses were completely burned to the ground last night (many of them black-owned by the way), I would say the police showed too much restraint by only protecting municipal facilities and letting the businesses burn. If anything, the FPD failed their citizens last night by NOT administering the beat down you speak of.

 

[Algeroth]

A very large man, while unarmed but still quite large and completely capable of doing a lot of damage, assaults a cop in the police vehicle, attempting to take the cop's gun. This can only be interpreted by the cop as an attempt by the large man to kill the cop with his own gun. This makes the large man an obvious danger to the public, not to mention the cop. The large man, failing to get the cop's gun so as to kill the cop (to assume otherwise would be foolish) runs off. The cop, being a dedicated public servant, chases after. The large man turns and charges the cop. The cop shoots the large man dead before the large man can get his large body within physical assault distance of the cop again. The cop is cleared of all charges by the grand jury. Rioters feel this justifies burning a city. Some posters in CFC OT seem to agree.

Is there any reason why repeat again and again how large the man was? Even someone who is merely 160 cm can f- you up pretty bad and this way your post seems like some poorly veiled homosexual tensions. And it it kinda disturbing, tbh.

 

[bhsup]

I've been saying "rioting" this entire time and not "protesting" which is totally different.

Is there any reason why repeat again and again how large the man was? Even someone who is merely 160 cm can f- you up pretty bad and this way your post seems like some poorly veiled homosexual tensions. And it it kinda disturbing, tbh.

It is necessary to repeatedly say it to counter the repeatedly used, and clearly falsely created "gentle giant" image that the media and people in Ferguson keep trying to portray.

There is nothing "gentle" about his demeanor.


Link to video.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But what is the other option right now? They can't just let people run riot through the streets, burning and looting as they go. Considering that over a dozen businesses were completely burned to the ground last night (many of them black-owned by the way), I would say the police showed too much restraint by only protecting municipal facilities and letting the businesses burn. If anything, the FPD failed their citizens last night by NOT administering the beat down you speak of.

As we already discussed...the prosecutor is going to have to resign. Five times at the plate with nary a swing at the ball when the accused is a cop, while he touts his tremendous conviction record when the accused isn't, is just not going to be something those people go back to accepting, no matter how bad the beating.

The chief of police is going to have to resign. The series of lawsuits for beatings, this shooting, the public perception that the FPD has a policy of systematic intimidation...these people have the bit in their teeth now, they are not going to be reined in and go back to accepting that status quo, no matter how bad the beating.

I have serious doubts about the mayor. If he can get those two resignations, one of which he actually has no power over, and can portray it as an acknowledgement that he should have been more attentive he might get away to the next election. I don't think he can pull that off. His "we don't have any tensions in Ferguson" statement, with riot in the background, does not make me confident in his abilities.

Give them those three, for a start, and they might settle down to see what happens next. If the required level of beating to settle them down temporarily is administered I would expect there to be rioting in a whole lot more places than Ferguson, and some of those places will make Ferguson look like the little suburb of a little city that it really is. I suspect higher authority is going to prevent that.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I've been saying "rioting" this entire time and not "protesting" which is totally different.

Yeah. Rioting works.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Is there any reason why repeat again and again how large the man was? Even someone who is merely 160 cm can f- you up pretty bad and this way your post seems like some poorly veiled homosexual tensions. And it it kinda disturbing, tbh.

In real life in a real fight, weight class matters.
A 95 pound girl beating up a room full of people is fiction.

Sitting in a chair fighting a 300 pound guy for control of your gun is life or death.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguso...lt-like-a-5-year-old-holding-onto-hulk-hogan/

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson police officer who fatally shot Michael Brown on Aug. 9, said he felt "like a five-year-old holding onto Hulk Hogan" when he and the 18-year-old allegedly engaged in a struggle inside the officer's vehicle that preceded the deadly shooting.

A St. Louis County grand jury met for 25 days over three months and heard more than 70 hours of testimony from about 60 witnesses - many of whom gave conflicting statements - before deciding not to indict Wilson in the fatal shooting of Brown, according to prosecutor Bob McCulloch.

Here are some of the highlights from the testimony, released by McCulloch's office Monday night:

___

A PUNCH TO THE FACE

Wilson told the grand jury that he initially encountered Brown and a friend walking in a street and told them to move to the sidewalk, drawing an expletive from Brown. Wilson said he noticed that Brown had a handful of cigars, "and that's when it clicked for me" that the men were suspects in a theft at a convenience store reported minutes earlier.

Wilson said he asked a dispatcher to send additional officers, then backed his vehicle in front of Brown and his friend. As he tried to open the door, Wilson said, Brown slammed it back shut. Wilson said he pushed Brown with the door and Brown hit him in the face. Wilson told grand jurors he was thinking: "What do I do not to get beaten inside my car?"

Wilson said he drew his gun and threatened to shoot if Brown didn't move back, fearing another punch to the face could "knock me out or worse."

"He immediately grabs my gun and says, 'You are too much of a to shoot me,'" Wilson said, saying he thought he would be shot when Brown dug the gun into the officer's hip.

Wilson testified: "I tried to hold his right arm and use my left hand to get out to have some type of control and not be trapped in my car any more. And when I grabbed him, the only way I can describe it is I felt like a five-year-old holding onto Hulk Hogan... That's just how big he felt and how small I felt just from grasping his arm."

___

AN ANGRY LOOK

Wilson said he managed to pull the trigger, and the gun "clicked" twice without firing before a shot went through the window. Wilson said Brown stepped back and then looked at him with the "most intense, aggressive face."

"The only way I can describe it, it looks like a demon, that's how angry he looked. He comes back towards me again with his hands up."

Wilson said he covered his face and fired the gun again. He told the grand jury that he fired two shots in the car before Brown took off running and he followed him.

Wilson said when Brown stopped, he told him to get on the ground. He said he squeezed a series of shots when Brown kept coming toward him and put his right hand under his shirt in the waistband of his pants.

He said he fired another round of shots as Brown continued to gain on him, approaching Wilson as if he was going to tackle him: "Just coming straight at me like he was going to run right through me. And when he gets about ... 8 to 10 feet away ... all I see is his head and that's what I shot."

 

[warpus]

As we already discussed...the prosecutor is going to have to resign. Five times at the plate with nary a swing at the ball when the accused is a cop, while he touts his tremendous conviction record when the accused isn't, is just not going to be something those people go back to accepting, no matter how bad the beating.

From what I've read grand juries almost 100% end in an indictment in the U.S.

Unless the accused is a cop - if the accused is a cop the indictment rate drops bigtime.

So it seems that this particular prosecutor didn't do anything much differently than how these cases are usually handled in other parts of the country. Race doesn't seem to play a role either - but profession, like I said, seems to.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

From what I've read grand juries almost 100% end in an indictment in the U.S.

Unless the accused is a cop - if the accused is a cop the indictment rate drops bigtime.

So it seems that this particular prosecutor didn't do anything much differently than how these cases are usually handled in other parts of the country. Race doesn't seem to play a role either - but profession, like I said, seems to.

That's because if there is no case the prosecutor doesn't present it. That's what grand juries are for, to prevent frivolous prosecution. The rate drops when it is a cop because most prosecutors, just like this one, don't do the job of presenting their case, even if they have one.

And yeah, efforts to change that clearly unconstitutional behavior through reasonable means have made very little progress anywhere. Most places where you don't see it happening, if you remark on it the answer will start with the words "well, since the riots in..." That is certainly the case in LA. The cleanup since the Rodney King case and subsequent riots has been very effective. Not totally, by any stretch, but a solid improvement.

 

[Algeroth]

In real life in a real fight, weight class matters.
A 95 pound girl beating up a room full of people is fiction.

In real life, there are no weight classes, there is only who smash other's face with ashtray as first.

 

[classical_hero]

For some reason we are constantly told how he was "unarmed" as if that meant he wasn't dangerous. Also just because one is armed doesn't mean he is o top of the fight unless he has the gun ready from the get go. If they don't have the gun out it take a few second to get it out and ready to fire, so in close fight a gun can be pretty much useless

 

[Harv]

Brown kept coming toward him and put his right hand under his shirt in the waistband of his pants.

This is how I run, too. I am going to grab the waistband of my pants so they don't fall down.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

This is how I run, too. I am going to grab the waistband of my pants so they don't fall down.

Just so you know, in LA county that will in fact get you shot dead. I recommend a belt if you ever come to visit.

 

[Bamspeedy]

This is how I run, too. I am going to grab the waistband of my pants so they don't fall down.

 

[Harv]

Just so you know, in LA county that will in fact get you shot dead. I recommend a belt if you ever come to visit.

Spoiler :

So we are agreed that he was not wearing a belt and that I need to lose a few pounds and it is not even Thanksgiving yet.

 

[Commodore]

This is how I run, too. I am going to grab the waistband of my pants so they don't fall down.

Why not just invest in a belt or maybe some pants that actually fit? I never did understand the fascination with sagging pants and wearing pants that are 5 sizes too big.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Why not just invest in a belt or maybe some pants that actually fit? I never did understand the fascination with sagging pants and wearing pants that are 5 sizes too big.

I must admit that I understand his point. I have a belt, but it doesn't really hold my pants up during vigorous activity, because I...um...sort of uniformly taper down from my belt line, which is more or less my widest point.

I change my recommendation to suspenders.

 

[EgonSpengler]

From what I've read grand juries almost 100% end in an indictment in the U.S.

Unless the accused is a cop - if the accused is a cop the indictment rate drops bigtime.

So it seems that this particular prosecutor didn't do anything much differently than how these cases are usually handled in other parts of the country. Race doesn't seem to play a role either - but profession, like I said, seems to.

I just found this:

Former New York state Chief Judge Sol Wachtler famously remarked that a prosecutor could persuade a grand jury to “indict a ham sandwich.” The data suggests he was barely exaggerating: According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.

-

Cases involving police shootings, however, appear to be an exception. [...] A recent Houston Chronicle investigation found that “police have been nearly immune from criminal charges in shootings” in Houston and other large cities in recent years. In Harris County, Texas, for example, grand juries haven’t indicted a Houston police officer since 2004; in Dallas, grand juries reviewed 81 shootings between 2008 and 2012 and returned just one indictment.

So it seems to be a massive understatement to say that cops get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

I must admit that I understand his point. I have a belt, but it doesn't really hold my pants up during vigorous activity, because I...um...sort of uniformly taper down from my belt line, which is more or less my widest point.

I change my recommendation to suspenders.

But if you wear suspenders then you're morally obligated to say "Did I do that?" every time something goes wrong, so make sure you're ready for that commitment.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But if you wear suspenders then you're morally obligated to say "Did I do that?" every time something goes wrong, so make sure you're ready for that commitment.

I don't wear them. My personal solution involves strict avoidance of vigorous activity.