Game of Thrones Season 5 discussion thread
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BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
This latest episode, featuring Daenerys mooning Tyrion, shows a return of gratuitous sex.
Whoopie.
I appreciate that they are finally showing that Daenerys has clay feet. She's been riding on this absurd breaker of chains crap for a while and starting to realize that conquering and ruling are two separate things. The references to her having some sort of Targaryen madness are very welcome as well.
I like equestrian action sequences so I appericated the bit where Brienne and Pod flee from Sansa and Mr. I-can't-figure-out-my-accent Littlefinger.
Sam screwing over John Snow's chance to be the boss of Winterfell was appreciated as well.
Whoopie.
I appreciate that they are finally showing that Daenerys has clay feet. She's been riding on this absurd breaker of chains crap for a while and starting to realize that conquering and ruling are two separate things. The references to her having some sort of Targaryen madness are very welcome as well.
I like equestrian action sequences so I appericated the bit where Brienne and Pod flee from Sansa and Mr. I-can't-figure-out-my-accent Littlefinger.
Sam screwing over John Snow's chance to be the boss of Winterfell was appreciated as well.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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Eh? I don't remember that from the books at all. Which doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Just that I don't remember it.
But tell me do: where and how does it happen?
Spoiler Alert: because I've really no idea now where Season 5 is supposed to be up to.
Spoiler :
Wrymouth3
Emperor
You forgot that the High Sparrow, Westeros' own fundamentalist fanatic who is going to purge the world of "sinners" and "evil." Sure the High Septon is corrupt, but I imagine the High Sparrow will soon state he is there to cleanse the world as a messianic figure
. We all know what happens when people try to follow the lead of Girolomo Savonarola.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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The answer is obvious.
Yes, and no.
In terms of the frame of reference of the book, yes. In terms of plain old honest to goodness morality, no.
GoodSarmatian
Jokerfied Western Male
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There really was no alternative.
Spoiler :
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
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Even still, how would it have hurt Jon to have still sent him to Greywatch with another 10 individuals that would be theoretically loyal to Jon? Just tell Slynt something like its a matter of rehabilitation and any further insubordination would receive no mercy. By sending him to the abandoned Greywatch you at least expand the range of the Night's Watch sight by building an outpost in the face of the eventually coming white walkers. Not much Slynt imo could do to hurt Jon from an abandoned outpost.
While sure in theory it could have undermined his authority to let him live, if handled properly in the subsequent sending off to Greywatch (with a sufficient threat, the fact that a near-imposed exile for the Night's Watch with no allies is actually a significant punishment on its own, and by slandering his name once he is gone) no one would honestly care.
And just because Slynt was utterly dislikable, didn't mean you still couldn't extract value from him (as Jon). The mercy route wasn't exactly a non-option, its just the route which Jon decided not to take because of cultural reasons.
While sure in theory it could have undermined his authority to let him live, if handled properly in the subsequent sending off to Greywatch (with a sufficient threat, the fact that a near-imposed exile for the Night's Watch with no allies is actually a significant punishment on its own, and by slandering his name once he is gone) no one would honestly care.
And just because Slynt was utterly dislikable, didn't mean you still couldn't extract value from him (as Jon). The mercy route wasn't exactly a non-option, its just the route which Jon decided not to take because of cultural reasons.
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
Sounds like you haven't read lord if the flies gucu. Don't give your enemies power.
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
Stannis offered to name Snow a Stark and install him in winterfall. Then Sam nominated snow for the commander position which pretty much sealed the snow wouldn't be able to accept the offer.
Did the execution play out very differently in the books?
In the show it makes Jon less likeable than before. Moreover it shows him being enraged. And killing when enraged, which is not exactly good.
Slynt would likely die in the outpost anyway, or be killed by the others sent there with him if he showed any reason to be killed. Jon's first memorable act as Lord of the Watch is to kill Slynt, when Jon was allowed to live despite having had sex (and moreover with a wildling). Slynt was a bad character, and in the show at least also asked for Jon to be killed for that issue, but Jon now looks less snowy white
Japanese covers for the books are very... interesting 
Eg meet Tyrion:
More of those here:
http://www.themarysue.com/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-covers/2/
Eg meet Tyrion:
More of those here:
http://www.themarysue.com/a-song-of-ice-and-fire-covers/2/
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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Oh I see. I thought what was meant was that Sam had actively undermined Jon's bid for lordship of Winterfell, rather than it just falling out that way by happenstance.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
The show really took all of the tension out of the whole thing.
In the books, Jon was serious considering accepting Stanis's offer and would almost certainly have done so has the king not insisted that the deal required converting to the religion of R'hllor and burning all the Godswoods where his people still worshiped. It was only the thought of betraying his father's gods that drove home how accepting his father's position would mean betraying all of his father's values, and how he could not stand to live with the guilt of such treason. In the books Jon rejected Stannis before learning the election results, when he still believed that keeping his vows would mean serving under the command of the corrupt Janos Slynt, a Lannister loyalist who had been integral to the plot to kill Ned Stark and who clearly wanted Jon dead too.
Jon did not even know yet that anyone had even considered nominating him. In the books Sam did not get up in public to give a speech. Instead he went behind Jon's back to have private meetings with the second and third place candidates from the prior ballot, convincing both to endorse Jon as an acceptable compromise to prevent Janos from being forced on them. (The election traditionally required an absolute majority, but King Stannis was growing impatient and was threatening to force them to accept whoever won a mere plurality on the next ballot. Stannis had openly stated that he considered Slynt to be the worst choice for the job, but he would still have forced them to accept him if he won a plurality again.) Sam emphasized to the high born lord that Jon had been raised in a castle with all the values of a true nobleman, unlike Janos who was a low born butchers son who had been named a lord only shortly before being sent to the wall. He emphasized to the bastard that Jon too was a bastard and would not be half as arrogant as any highborn candidate.
In the show, I don't think they even mentioned the requirement to convert. Almost as soon as the offer was given, Jon told Sam that he had already chosen to reject it. He never seemed to have any angst over the decision, and by the time he gave Stannis his reply everyone already knew he was Lord Commander so resigning that role to become Lord Stark of Winterfell would seem quite odd.
In the books, Jon was serious considering accepting Stanis's offer and would almost certainly have done so has the king not insisted that the deal required converting to the religion of R'hllor and burning all the Godswoods where his people still worshiped. It was only the thought of betraying his father's gods that drove home how accepting his father's position would mean betraying all of his father's values, and how he could not stand to live with the guilt of such treason. In the books Jon rejected Stannis before learning the election results, when he still believed that keeping his vows would mean serving under the command of the corrupt Janos Slynt, a Lannister loyalist who had been integral to the plot to kill Ned Stark and who clearly wanted Jon dead too.
Jon did not even know yet that anyone had even considered nominating him. In the books Sam did not get up in public to give a speech. Instead he went behind Jon's back to have private meetings with the second and third place candidates from the prior ballot, convincing both to endorse Jon as an acceptable compromise to prevent Janos from being forced on them. (The election traditionally required an absolute majority, but King Stannis was growing impatient and was threatening to force them to accept whoever won a mere plurality on the next ballot. Stannis had openly stated that he considered Slynt to be the worst choice for the job, but he would still have forced them to accept him if he won a plurality again.) Sam emphasized to the high born lord that Jon had been raised in a castle with all the values of a true nobleman, unlike Janos who was a low born butchers son who had been named a lord only shortly before being sent to the wall. He emphasized to the bastard that Jon too was a bastard and would not be half as arrogant as any highborn candidate.
In the show, I don't think they even mentioned the requirement to convert. Almost as soon as the offer was given, Jon told Sam that he had already chosen to reject it. He never seemed to have any angst over the decision, and by the time he gave Stannis his reply everyone already knew he was Lord Commander so resigning that role to become Lord Stark of Winterfell would seem quite odd.
Perhaps I did feel just a twinge of sympathy for him though (only a little)
In light of what GoodSarmatian has said though did he really have a choice? I mean the wall is the last resort....your last chance screw it up and you are literally dead.
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
I'm not sure if it is a question of less tension as much as being completely different.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
I agree. It's not so much a matter of tension as to what is entirly missing. Hard as it may seem to accept, religion is strongly de-emphsized in the show. Part of that is likely time constraints, but likely it is also a case of political correctness.
J
J
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
Another interesting concession to television audience was Renly's Rainbow Guard. They were never named as such for fear of confusion w/ the gays.
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