GR29 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea

[CommandoBob]

Next tech is Writing.

No, there was unanimous agreement that we can afford to detour to Mathematics after Alphabet.

Busted! Nothing like trying to think with a headache.

I believe your math on GA production is wrong, because the capital's plains cows will still only be worth two shields then, due to the despotism penalty. Thus I'd prefer to produce some settlers in the capital during the GA, but if you're not comfortable with that sacrifice of military production during your turns, that's quite all right.

You're right. I added +1 shield to all tiles, forgetting about the Despotism penalty on the cows.

Which means Persepolis will produce 14 shields per turn and Immortals only need 30. That's a lot of overrun, but I don't see much that we can do about it. Even if we swap both cows out, Persepolis will make 3 turn Immortals (no overrun) and so will Pasadena (no overrun either). Giving one the cows to Arbela will not change anything; it will still make 8 spt in the GA. Drat.

However, we may need that extra production capacity depending on where the AI moves inside our borders.

However, if you decide not to produce settlers in Persepolis, don't try to compensate by building them elsewhere. When we have a town at +4 food with a granary, producing settlers out of towns at +2 food without granaries is folly.

I did not take into account the food overrun or the granary effect; just the city size. And since Persepolis won't be able to make 2 Turn Immortals, and will be able to grow back after making a settler (Immortal for 3 turns, then a settler in 3 turns), the entire reasoning for not making settlers in the capital is now kaput.

But I think I will go Immortal (current build) -> Immortal (next build)-> Settler to let us grow to size 7 and then drop to size 5. At size 5 we can still make Immortals in 3 turns; at size 4 it will take 4 turns.

 

[Northern Pike]

But I think I will go Immortal (current build) -> Immortal (next build)-> Settler to let us grow to size 7 and then drop to size 5.

That sounds fine.

 

[CommandoBob]

0 1500 BC

The warrior should move from Mount Shiraz into Shiraz; Shiraz's spearman should move to the road tile south of Arbela; and the capital's warrior should cross the river onto the tile to the east, which will require us to increase the lux rate.

Three units moved, luxury up to 20%.

Alphabet in 12, -4 gpt, 450 gold.
​

[IBT]
Culture borders from Persepolis expand.



1 1475 BC

Around the Empire
Two Byzantine warriors 1NW of Pasedena, 2 Ottoman Archers 2SE of Pasedena, Portuguese Warrior between Pasadena and Shiraz, Portuguese Warrior 1NE of Shiraz.

They all appear to be focused on Arbela.

Worker moves 2NW, to irrigate and road and avoid unwanted attention.

Warrior joins the watchful Spear 1S of Arbela, both fortify outside the city.
Warrior in Shiraz fortifies.
Arbela is still empty.
​

[IBT]
Ottoman Archer is outlived by our Spear in Pasadena (1 of 1).

Korea shows up, but from where I do not know.

Korea knows about Alphabet and Warrior Code but are ignorant of Masonry and Pottery.
They offer WC for Masonry.
They have 10 gold, we have 446.

We could trade Pottery for Alphabet, but we are Persnickety Persians and want to learn Alphabet all by ourselves. We declare war on Korea and their 6 cities.

Portuguese warrior is shivered at Shiraz (2 of 2).

2 1450 BC

Around the Empire
Two Byzantine warriors 1N of Pasadena, Portuguese Warrior 1SE of Arbeala, Ottoman Archer 1SE of Pasadena.
Korean Warrior is on the shore line west of Persepolis, 5 turns from the hills south of the capital.

Arbela is still the draw.

Worker irrigates, 3 turns.

Spear and Warrior move into Arbela and fortify.
​

[IBT]
Portuguese Warrior persishes at Shiraz (3 of 3).

Pasadena vImmortal -> vImmortal in 5.

3 1425 BC

Around the Empire
Korean Warrior squats and fortifies in safety across the bay from Persepolis.
Two Byzantine Warriors 1S of Arbela.
Ottoman Archer 1SE of Pasadena.

vImmortal vs. Ottoman rArcher, Immortal wins (4 of 4).

And...


Our GOlden Age has begun.



Persepolis: Immortal in 1.
Pasadena: Immortal in 4.
Arbela: Immortal in 3.
Shiraz: barracks in 3.

Alphabet in 7, -4 gpt, 438 gold.

Golden Age or not, luxury has to remain at 20%.

Golden Age Turn 1.
​

[IBT]
Byzantine warrior gets beaten at Arbela (5 of 5).
Other warrior bravely attacks the road and isolates Shiraz and Arbela.

Persepolis vImmortal -> vImmortal in 3.

4 1400 BC

Around the Empire
One Byzantine warrior 1S of Arbela.

New Immortal moves 1NE across the river and not adjacent to the Byzantine unit.
First Immortal parades back into Pasadena.

Golden Age Turn 2.
​

[IBT]

5 1375 BC

Around the Empire
Korean Warrior safely fortified across the bay.
Byzantine Warrior is still 1S of Arbela.
Ottoman Archer 1E of Pasadena.

Three Portuguese warriors approach Shiraz.

Byzantine warrior gets busted (6 of 6).
Ottoman Archer is ousted (7 of 7).

Worker, water working done, moves 1E to road to Arbela for more Immortals. Not normally the best move, but we need as many Immortals as we can get.

Spear in Arbela moves towards Shiraz.

Except for the Korean squatter, we have no AI infestation at this time.

Golden Age Turn 3.
​

[IBT]
Arbela vImmortal -> vSpear in 3.
Shiraz barracks -> vSpear in 4.

6 1350 BC

Around the Empire
Korean squatter squats.
Three Portuguese Warriors on Mt. Shiraz.

Spear arrives in Shiraz.
Immortal in Arbela moves towards Shiraz.
Other Immortals heal in place.

Worker roads, 2 turns to reconnect Arbela.
Golden Age Turn 4.
​

[IBT]
Spear is redlined at Shiraz but holds on.
rWarrior beats back two Portuguese warriors and promotes to Veteran (10 of 10).

Persepolis vImmortal -> Settler in 3.
Pasadena vImmortal -> vImmortal in 4.

7 1325 BC

Around the Empire
Korean squatter wakes up, moves 1S along the far coast line.

Move two Immortals onto the Iron Colony.
Immortal from Persepolis to Pasadena.
Immortal into Shiraz.
One Immortal heals.

Golden Age Turn 5.
​

[IBT]
Arbela connected to Iron.

8 1300 BC

Around the Empire
Korean moved 1S.
Byzantine Warrior 2S of Persepolis.

Worker moves to 1S of Arbela, to rebuild the pillaged road.

Arbela vSpear in 1 -> vImmortal in 3.

Hire a geek in Shiraz to slow down the Spear build until the road is built and it can change to Immortal.

Golden Age Turn 6.
​

[IBT]

9 1275 BC

Around the Empire
Korean Warrior moves 1S again.
Byzantine Warrior 1S of Persepolis.

Byzantine pest is no match for an Immortal (11 of 11).

Worker roads, 2 turns.

Drop science to 30%, Alphabet in 1, +14 gpt, 411 gold.

Golden Age Turn 7.
​

[IBT]
We learn Alphabet, start on Mathematics, 39 turns at 30%.

Persepolis settler -> vImmortal in 3.

10 1250 BC

Around the Empire
Two Korean warriors outside out borders, SW of Persepolis.

Immortal heals.

Settler moves to Pasadena.

Increase science to 80%, Mathematics in 20 turns, -5 gpt, 425 gold.
Golden Age Turn 8.
​

And the save is attached.

 

[CommandoBob]

Persian Empire 1250 BC

Spoiler :

Things have been rather quiet. Our Golden Age has started and our interior is clear.

We had one road pillaged, it will be repaired this IBT.

Shiraz has a geek but only to slow down the Spear build. Since the road is cut, it cannot build an Immortal at this time. Once the road is connected, we can fire the geek and change the Spear to an Immortal.

Our Settler is in Pasadena.

We have three Immortals on the Iron Colony, ready to pounce on the Ottomans. But I think we need at least one more before we begin to advance on them.

One Immortal is in Shiraz, the other heals south of Persepolis. Two Immortals finish their training next turn.

If we can raze that Ottoman city to our SE we should. We have too much to do with just one worker.

The tile 1N of Persepolis has been irrigated, but not roaded. One West of Arbela has been roaded but not irrigated.

Military
01 Settlers
01 Workers
02 Warrior
06 Spear
05 Immortal

Current Units: 15
Allowed Units: 16
Support Costs: 00 gpt

 

[Northern Pike]

Good play. Gambling that the AI will help us out with bad attacks can be unsettling, but it usually works.

We should add at least three Immortals to our strike force before we advance on the Ottoman city--the two about to complete in Pasadena and Arbela, and the one in Shiraz. A spearman should go along to absorb attacks, too.

We should get the pre-build started before the end of our GA--perhaps in Pasadena, after the present Immortal and one more.

 

[ThERat]

good moves.

I guess we want to connect ivory with the next city and at the same time advance versus Ottomans.

I see what I can do, got it...

 

[Daeron]

Nice play. I agree with NorthernPike that we should raze instead of play keeps.

 

[Hellfiredoom]

Lurker's subscription post, good luck and kick some bootie guys!

 

[ThERat]

Pre-Turn
change micro a bit, Persepolis can use the fish for more commerce as we make 10spt then still
Shiraz gets a scientist

1. 1125BC
suddenly an American city has popped up to the east, we have no contact with them yet though
move settler in position covered by 4 immortals and 1 spear though there is an archer nearby
set Pasadena on a worker, we only have 1 of them, that's not enough

IT Ottoman archer suicides on our spear

2. 1200BC
found Phantanium, starts walls
slaughter one of the Korean warriors
due to MP in our capital we can now go for 90/10 and maths drops to 15 turns

3. 1175BC
Pasadena now goes for a palace, capital for a settler
the second Korean warrior dies, we defeat an archer on the way to Ottoman land

4. 1150BC
defeat a stray Ottoman archer, we defeat 2 spears and autoraze Edrine, the ivory galore if there has ever been one
we gain a slave

5. 1125BC
Shiraz has walls now
we actually lose an immortal to an archer on flat land ???

6. 1000BC
we have another settler, decide to send him out eastwards to fill the gap
we must not make the same mistake in spacing out too much

7. 1075BC
zzz

8. 1050BC
Ottomans like to lose single undefended archers....

9. 1025BCBC
ivory is connected now, lux has to stay at 10%
Persepolis is going for the next settler after an immortal

10. 1000BC
found Bactra which starts walls
defeat another lone archer

I purposely founded Phantanium one tile west of the river as we need more space with our crammed cities
that would hamper our expansion too much in the long run

We do have 6 immortals ready to be sent out south for Ottoman's capital if we wish to do so
Ottomans found a replacement for Edrine almost at the same spot, note the many ivory there
Maths is done in 5 turns and hopefully we can bag SoZ

 

[Daeron]

What's the best way to go for the SoZ in this case, Pasadena is on a nice schedule for TGL. So I would rather not switch it. Just wait till after TGL, considering we seem to getting most of the ivory?

I got the save.

 

[Northern Pike]

What's the best way to go for the SoZ in this case, Pasadena is on a nice schedule for TGL. So I would rather not switch it. Just wait till after TGL, considering we seem to getting most of the ivory?

You're right. Pasadena is making barely acceptable progress towards the GLib, given that it'll drop to 6-7 spt when our GA ends, so we can't possibly interpolate a 200-shield delay there to build the Statue. We can't really run another pre-build with only six cities, either. We'll just have to hope that we're looking at all the ivory on the map; and if not, the Statue is a marginal thing in a game on this scale anyway.

The city sites available now aren't appealing, but our next town should probably go on the northeast coast, N-NE-NE of Arbela.

With so few enemies in sight, we can afford to send all seven Immortals around Phantanium against the Ottomans now, covered by a spearman. The first target shouldn't be the junk city they've re-founded amidst the elephants, but whatever is to the SW of that, so we'll be advancing directly south from Phantanium. If we have the opportunity to keep Ottoman cities, we should take it; like us, they've never built a cultural structure, so we have exactly their culture. The Ottomen are probably the last civilization before the South Pole, so cities we hold in their lands shouldn't be menaced from too many directions.

Once our GA ends, it'll be important to let Pasadena share the capital's cows as much as is consistent with having the capital still grow every three turns. It should be possible in principle to let Pasadena have one cow two turns out of three, though we may need to get more irrigation done to do this conveniently.

 

[Daeron]

If we have the opportunity to keep Ottoman cities, we should take it; like us, they've never built a cultural structure, so we have exactly their culture. The Ottomen are probably the last civilization before the South Pole, so cities we hold in their lands shouldn't be menaced from too many directions.

I hadn't considered that, good point. I would have razed, but the situation is indeed totally different from our earlier situation with the Babylonians.

 

[Daeron]

14 kills and not a single promotion. I don't feel like I got a lot of things done, apart from razing a very small town. Haven't met the Americans yet either.

I temporarily halted growth in Shiraz, to allow Arbela to grow further. Not sure if it's the best thing to do, I think it's doing 5spt, so that's all right. I do know that we could use an extra worker or two. Next settler is already ready with movement left while another worker has only just started roading towards Sidon

Turnlog

Spoiler :

pre-flight

Science: 90 % (Mathematics in 5 turns)
Lux: 10 %
Income: -5 gpt

Treasure: 373 gold

Units:
2 worker
2 warrior
8 spearman
10 immortal
22 total, with 24 allowed

1 slave

Persepolis: settler in 2 turns, growth in 2 turns
Pasadena: Palace in 27 turns, growth in 4 turns
Arbela: Immortal in 4 turns, growth in 8 turns
Shiraz: Spearman in 2 turns, growth in 19 turns
Phantanium: Barracks in 13 turns, growth in 12 turns
Bactra: Walls in 7 turns, growth in 20 turns

3 Golden Age turns left

Move a stack of 7 immortals towards the location SW of ivory

IBT
See two Korean warriors and one Ottoman archer. Not much

Turn 1, 975 BC
Immortal kills Otto. archer (1 of 1)
Still haven't met the Americans

IBT
Persepolis settler -> immortal
Shiraz Spearman -> spearman

Turn 2, 950 BC
Move settler towards N-NE-NE of Arbela

Target looks to be Otto's capitol based on cultural expansion, next turn we're out of the Golden Age

IBT
Otto's send two archer after our lonely immortal

Turn 3, 925 BC
Kill Otto. archer (2 of 2)
Two cows, but no rivers at the Ottoman land. Missed that I could have lowered lux slider after settler, I do so now. Switch cow with Pasadena.

IBT
Otto archer dies on immortal (3 of 3) My bad for walking over their road.
Our analysts say our Golden Age has ended. Pasadena, palace in 30 turns

Arbela immortal -> immortal

Turn 4, 900 BC
Forgot the commerce loss, Math still in 2 turns. Oke, not their capitol after all. Spot two Byzantine archers, that with three Korean warriors and two Otto archers.

IBT
Some troopmovement

Turn 5, 875 BC
Nice, spot two whales for the new city. We drop our stack next to Busra. Looks like there's frozen tundra to the SW. Adjust lux to 10 %.

IBT
We discover Math -> Writing (15 turns)

Persepolis Immortal -> settler

Turn 6, 850 BC
Bleh, redline immortal against Korean on the plains (4 of 4)

Found Sidon -> walls

Without GA, Persepolis sucks. Need to get a worker there to start improving.
Kill a spearman at Busra (5 of 5)
Lose an immortal to a spearman (5 of 6)
Kill archer and redlined spear (7 of 8)
We raze Busra, no slaves
No promotions, in 7 wins.
Kill another Otto archer (8 of 9)

Still no Americans

IBT
One Otto Archer dies on the Immortal that razed Busra, a second kills him. Should have covered him. (9 of 11)

Shiraz Spearman -> spearman

Turn 7, 825 BC
Kill Otto archer (10 of 12)

IBT
The Byzantines seem to like Phantanium

Turn 8, 800 BC
Arbela has grown to size 5 and runs at 6 spt, Immortals every 5 turns.

Kill Byz. archer (11 of 13)
Two immortals kill two Korean warrios (13 of 15), still no promotion

IBT
Portugal enters the scene from the southeast of Bactrawith a spearman and two archers.

Bactra walls -> barracks

Turn 9, 775 BC
Kill another Byz, archer (14 of 16)

IBT
Portugese move troops next to Bactra

Persepolis Settler -> Immortal
Arbela immortal -> immortal

Turn 10, 750 BC
I'll leave the units unmoved because there's the issue with the Portugese to the SE.

The worker near Persepolis, is mining the plains tile, so switching from the cow won't cost turns on immortals and settlers.

Pictures

Note the Portugese right next to Bactra. Managed to sneak up on me quite good.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[Northern Pike]

The worker near Persepolis, is mining the plains tile, so switching from the cow won't cost turns on immortals and settlers.

Good--we needed to do that for more flexibility in MM.

It looks as though our strike force veered west of the Ottoman capital, but that's not bad--now we can take three Ottoman cities without changing direction.

I've got it.

 

[Northern Pike]

View attachment 248674, end of turn

 

[Northern Pike]

750 (0): We'll have to absorb whatever attacks the Portuguese choose to make at Bactra, but since we're behind walls it should be all right.

We easily repel one Portuguese archer at Bactra (1-0).


730 (1): We cut down the other Portuguese archer at Bactra (2-0). As a result we move into view of an American warrior on a mountain, and we have to declare war. Honest Abe has nine cities and dyes, and leads us by all visible techs. I suspect the Americans are engaged in a war at the other end of their empire, for this contact to have taken so long. Another clue is that they've got a worker in their capital.

The surviving five Immortals of our strike force move into the (presumed) Ottoman capital zone, trying to stay away from their road network. It's not a major error, but this force should definitely have been covered by a spearman so that we wouldn't have to be so concerned about archer counterattacks.


710 (2): We account for the American warrior/settler pair that triggered the war, which will help our worker shortage (3-0).

We eviscerate an Ottoman archer on the way (we think) to Istanbul (4-0).

We bludgeon the last member of the Portuguese attack force, a spearman (5-0).


690 (3): We spot iron in America's territory, loosely speaking, but it's not within their borders and not hooked up.

We carve up a Portuguese archer east of Bactra (6-0).

We crush two Ottoman archers and move next to Istanbul, but we'll have to consolidate before we attack the city (8-0).

The French complete the Pyramids and the Indians the Oracle, but the cascade ends there. We haven't met either civ.


670 (4): We move our strike force into a forest next to Istanbul, but two of the Immortals are at 2/4 after encounters with archers.

The Byzantines are becoming active south of Persepolis, and we draw and quarter two of their archers (10-0).

We found Tyre SSW of Pasadena--off our road network for the moment, but this front has been quiet.

Phantanium barracks --> Immortals.


650 (5): At Istanbul we winkle out two spearmen of the garrison, and we smash an adjacent archer, but we don't have enough attacks to take the city (13-0).

We lacerate the last Byzantine archer south of Persepolis (14-0).

Sidon walls --> barracks.

The Ottomen offer peace, so I check their city total: six. They then attack out of Istanbul and slay an Immortal, but this (we learn a moment later) reduces the town's garrison to one (14-1).


630 (6): We storm Istanbul, held by a remaining spearman (15-1). Our prospects for holding the town look good, and at size one it's not much of a flip risk.

We mince the Ottoman archer that attacked out of Istanbul (16-1).

Persepolis settler --> Immortal.


610 (7): We bullyrag an American archer, an American warrior, and a Portuguese archer, all adjacent to Bactra, and finally get a promotion to elite (19-1).


590 (8): We move three Immortals from Istanbul adjacent to Aydin.

Ugh, a Korean swordsman appears, forcing us to delay the foundation of a city in the natural spot S-S-SW of Persepolis.


570 (9): Aydin is held by three units, which I didn't really expect, but our Immortals smite all three and seize the city, which we'll hold (22-1).

We move a modest force next to Iznik, the westernmost visible Ottoman city.

Research down to 20%, Writing still due this IT.

Writing --> Literature, due in 14 turns at 90%.


550 (10): We lose an Immortal but auto-raze Iznik, held by two spearman (24-2). We capture two workers.

Zero elite victories this round generated zero Great Leaders. We have one elite Immortal now.

 

[Northern Pike]

We'd prefer to found our next city S-S-SW of Persepolis on the coast (where the Byzantine spearman is now), but we'll have to clear out some enemy units first, which means waiting until we have safe attacks against them. If the next player would rather follow the simpler course of pulling the settler back and using it to found a town three tiles SE of Tyre (1 on the screenshot), that would be all right.

Pasadena will be a difficult town in which to slow down the pre-build, since every tile in its radius yields at least one shield. Thus I'd leave Pasadena just as it is now, with a scientist assigned so that it doesn't reach size seven, and wouldn't let it share the capital's cows at the moment (so that we can give one instead to Arbela when appropriate). If our time to Literature falls for any reason we can make changes in Pasadena.

Of course we should get the Istanbul-Aydin sector hooked up to our main road net soon. Then the Immortals spread out between Istanbul and Aydin can return to the attack. There's another Ottoman border just visible SE of Istanbul, as well as the obvious Portuguese city.

Persepolis should stay on its seven-turn Immortal-and-settler cycle, basically, although fitting in a worker in the next round would be fine.

For the one turn in seven when Persepolis is at size seven, we have to raise the lux rate to 20%.

Tyre can always switch to a walls build, but my hope is that it'll be unnecessary.

In the Shiraz-Sidon sector I've been more concerned with getting a tactical road net up than with fully improving tiles, now that we're at war with the Americans, but we can start irrigating there soon.

Greebley, have you found your disk, or should CB play?

 

[Northern Pike]

The new south:



The eastern prospect:

 

[Greebley]

Still don't have the disk yet. Decided to get a second copy - it was only 6 dollars, but it hasn't arrived yet. So I will either need a swap or skip depending on how long the disk takes to get to me (I expect it soon).

Looks like we are doing well though.

Roster:
Greebley - skip or swap
Commando Bob - Up
ThERat
Daeron
Northern Pike - just played

 

[Daeron]

Sorry about the snafu with the spearman. I actually remember planning to add one, then I realized I needed one more immortal and in all the mix up, I never even remembered the spearman.

I'm surprised to see swordsmen already from Korea. They didn't look so impressive when their initial force came, but that's probably because they were already building swordsmen.

If we can get rid of those Korean swords we should try and build S-S-SW of Persepolis right away. It will make it a lot easier to defend against the Koreans and Byzantines, pretty much a meat grinder. Since they can only come from around the ocean and will have no hills to step on.