GR29 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea

Wow, certainly getting more intense. Interesting times.

Got it, I will try and close the gaps a little for easier defense. We cartainly have quite a number of enemies at this point, being located rather centrally.
 
That sounds good. :goodjob: The Babylonians helped us a lot as they fought their way through the Americans, so I suppose we can't complain now that they're here. :lol:

You made the right call using the Leader to form an army rather than rush the FP. It's hardly even a choice, in AW.

The wave of attacks by depleted spearmen against our Immortals was peculiar and unfortunate.

It's good to have the shape of the southeast defined, but it's too bad that there's so little grassland there. The whole area will only support three useful science camps before rails. To put that more broadly, this was a fine starting position in the short term, but the lack of grassland will really start to bite now.
 
It's good to have the shape of the southeast defined, but it's too bad that there's so little grassland there. The whole area will only support three useful science camps before rails. To put that more broadly, this was a fine starting position in the short term, but the lack of grassland will really start to bite now.

What if we ICS the entire plains?
 
I take it you mean squeezing in the maximum number of cities each supporting one scientist at size one? The problem there, aside from the prodigious cost in settlers, is that since cities can't be adjacent to one another, only about one tile in four can have a city even under conditions of maximum ICS. So we'd only be supporting one scientist per four tiles that way, which is a miserable ratio for science-camp purposes. A grassland city with irrigation in monarchy can support two scientists per three tiles, for example.
 
Played 2.5 turns so far. We gained another army and met 2 new Civs.

The situation in the east becomes very dicey as we a lot of cities empty which is asking for the enemy to go for those cities instead of attacking the front. This is one of the problems in C3C AW.
Anyway, it was the French to take on American, rather than Babylon as their big stacks are now running into our empire
 
Pre-Turn
defeat 3 yellow Aztecs in the north promoting on immortal
slaughter 2 Bab wounded swords and gain a leader
form an army on the spot as the east is under high pressure

IT quite a lot of action, someone defeats the American settler pair, more enemies in sight
we defeat 1 sword on defense [6-0]

1. 460AD
clear 4 units in the west, filling our army with a third immortal
use 2 armies to defeat 3 Babs units, but we clearly need more units in the east as well
I don't like all those empty towns. This is asking the enemy to walk right into our territory rather than attacking front cities

IT as I feared the enemy rushes for our interior rather than attacking, only Byzantines lose 1 sword
[14-0]

2. 470AD
defeat 2 units, I am desperate to cover all those empty cities
have to use one army to cover Chicago and take out one archer
recall those useless 3 immortals in the ice, why did we send them there?

IT we're in hot soup as the enemy rushes for Seattle, Japan has a lot of horses
we get feudalism after defeat the usual Byz sword [17-0]

3. 480AD
defeat 3 units in the west, in the east all I can do is cover the cities and hope for the best
3 Japanese horses can attack Seattle (covered by 3 immortals)
a big Bab stack is lingering around too

IT Japanese lose 2 horse and Byz their standard sword, the rest moves into our territory, a large French
stack ends next to new York [23-0]

4. 490AD
I decide to abandon New York and pull back as this configuration as we have it would lose us NY and Seattle
defeat 2 units on the retreat
found Newer York to fill some gaps in the south
lose quite a few health points taking out 2 swords with an army
take out 4 Koreans with elites, but no leader, finally defeat 2 Babs

IT Japanese moves their horses into our land, but more dangerously, Babs move south towards our many undefended cities. They lose one unit
Byz lose an archer this time [35-0]


5. 500AD
found Horse Town to close more gaps
defeat 2 Aztecs and finally get another leader, decide to rush the pentagon with it next turn
take out 2 intruder spears from America but lose an immortal

IT the enemy doesn't attack but goes for the south with Japanese horses and a Babs stack
we do lose a spear that was used to divert the enemy [39-2]

6. 510AD
rush the Pentagon, found another town in the south closing a real big gap
defeat a Japanese horse, but the south is in real danger
slay 6 units in the west, there we can easily defend
strike down 2 Japanese horses at Seattle and retreat another

IT again nobody attacks and heads for our interior, no good [48-2]
we get the pentagon


7. 520AD
Situation in the south
gr29500.jpg


defeat 2 bab units in the south, shuffle units to cover towns
strike 5 units in the west, kill 1 American archer in the east

we connect horses

IT we defeat the usual 1 Byz but the army is badly wounded [57-2]

8. 530AD
load southern army with a 4th immortal and defeat 2 Bab spears. We are in big trouble down south, too many units, no defense
A babs sword ends next to an undefended Uskudar that I abandon
defeat 3 units in the west though

IT our southern army gets attacked inside Darius K. and defeat 5 units, we are very lucky. A Japanese horse takes out an immortal, damn [67-3]

9. 540AD
pull more units south as we need more units there with half the towns empty
strike down 2 enemy units, the lack of horses really hurts

IT due to an oversight and too many horses, we lose 3 slaves to a Japanese horse
Darius is attacked by three units, but the red army survives [72-3]
a new Civ shows up

10. 550AD
declare war on Inca
defeat 2 spears and take Sinop with 2 slaves
our first horseman immediately shows its use in taking a lone exposed spear
slay 3 units in the west [78-3]

we actually have a settler fortified in Chicago and one in Hamadan for future use
 
The situation:

The east:

Lots of enemies, due to our wide front the enemy can pick the weak spots we have. Very difficult to defend

gr29550a.jpg



The west:
easier to defend as we have a clearer frontline. However, more enemy units are coming

gr29550b.jpg
 
I think we need to make sure our interior cities are covered to avoid the enemy to roam our territory. AW games are very hard to defend if the enemy ignores us to invade the land

as to why 3 immortals were allowed to wander into the iceland is beyond me. Those units were badly needed in the south and cost us at least one city
 
Lost my entire post, bleh.

I got the save.

That does not mean I got a complete grasp of the situation yet. It looks pretty overwhelming on first glance. :crazyeye:

We currently have 15/5 spearmen/pikemen for 30 cities, do we need to up production of pikemen?

I assume we need to make sure each town has at least one defender in it. But even then, AI might ignore border towns because of our broad front?

Can we by placement of new towns, force the front at the east to be more narrow? I'm just wondering about AI movement. I assume we want the pointy front line ( > ) that Northern Pike showed.

The horsemen that were/are produced, are intended for upgrade to knights if we hit chivalry?

How small is that inland sea? We see a Japanese town to the west, but their stack is coming from the east. :crazyeye:
 
That turnset is some awesome AW reading. Great action and I loved the log. "Incoming from multiple positions! Our towns are defenseless!! Retreat! Egads, incoming from the flank too! Retreat Retreat!!" :eek:

Can't wait for your turnlog Daeron, good luck! :lol:
 
Fine work, in the circumstances. :thumbsup:

as to why 3 immortals were allowed to wander into the iceland is beyond me. Those units were badly needed in the south and cost us at least one city

Well, those Immortals were drawn south by enemy tundra towns, which they razed. The point at which they wandered too far was probably hard to discern before the fact.

I think the root cause of this sudden deterioration in our position is simply our bad luck so far with Leaders. If we had seven or eight armies now as we could reasonably expect, this would just be an ordinary enemy surge, not a crisis.

I'll have some specific suggestions in a bit.
 
Well, this is monarch, and the enemy stacks aren't very large. I think we can hold this position.

In the east we have two armies plus the seven Immortals in or approaching Seattle, which is plenty of strength with which to grind down the mostly weak enemy units we face. The problem is freeing ourselves up to use it. I'd suggest that next turn we should abandon Chicago (only at the end of the turn, of course), and use the settler now in Chicago to found a town SW-W of Chicago. Depending on the AI's moves, this may leave quite a few enemy units behind our lines where they can safely be attacked by Immortals. Some delicate footwork may be required to keep the new town safe, and it's impossible to be precise without seeing the IT, but something like this should be feasible. The ratio of our strength to the enemy's should allow it.

The west, where we have more bombardment units, shouldn't be as great a problem once we get the army in Sinop back to the main front. The main question is what to do about Adrianople, which like Chicago is tying down a whole army to its defense. I won't say we should definitely abandon the city, but at a minimum this army has to be active in destroying enemy units, even if that means that it doesn't end every turn in the town. If a fast enemy unit sneaks into the town, it's no great loss.

Obviously it would be good to get that one forest tile roaded to connect Adrianople to the overall defensive system, though I'm not saying it would be easy.

If you find the situation has calmed down, return Persepolis to settler production. As usual in AW, if we aren't building and using settlers, we're losing.

Lost my entire post, bleh.We currently have 15/5 spearmen/pikemen for 30 cities, do we need to up production of pikemen?

Where you see specific needs, sure, but not as a blanket policy. When our enemies are still sending units of defense one and two, Immortals (which we're still allowed to build) are a better bargain than pikemen for the same price.

Daeron said:
Can we by placement of new towns, force the front at the east to be more narrow?

Founding the suggested town SW-W of Chicago should help a bit.

Daeron said:
The horsemen that were/are produced, are intended for upgrade to knights if we hit chivalry?

Not especially. They're to deal with enemy horsemen, and to let us attack redlined units without leaving a slow attacker in a vulnerable position. But if we do happen to get Chivalry on your round, upgrading woud be acceptable to fill knight armies quickly.
 
Abandoning Chicago and founding the new city at a better spot is a good idea. I generally do not like cities that are out of reach from our empire unless we are talking about some corner that the AI wont reach.
Chicago, New York and the western Byz city have tied down our armies unnecessarily for quite a while.

Horsemen are needed to take out the redlined units without exposing our immortals. I do not like upgrading them as it costs a lot of cash.
 
We may hit the city limit at some point. For Pangaea it may occur later. It does mean settler production is eventually useful even in less optimal locations because they can later be disbanded and built in better spots. However, at the moment it sounds like we need military more.

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Just a quick subscription post to let you know you are being Lurked.

Nice Game: Hairy for Monarch!:goodjob:
 
Small update since I'm now 3 turns in but stopping for the day, turns are taking pretty long now, especially since I need to get used to my new mouse, lots of misclicks if I don't do things slowly. We lost Tureng Pe on the first IBT, so I switched Persepolis back to settler production pretty soon, since that claimed the only one I had to work with.

We did get an extra army and things are looking pretty manageable.

I was wondering if it's a good idea to start one city at a time on an aquaduct, then switch the next and so forth?

Save available for people with withdrawal.
 

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I was wondering if it's a good idea to start one city at a time on an aquaduct, then switch the next and so forth?

Sure, if you don't think you need the military production.

I haven't had time to look at the save yet, but thanks for posting it. :goodjob:
 
Man, this was pretty taxing to play through. The west is annoying as hell, since with the mountains, a lot of it turns into a cat and mouse game.

Things went pretty well, though I got a little tired after 6 turns or so. Mostly I had some pretty annoying RNG results, but I did get 2 armies. :D

Turned out I couldn't reinforce Adrianople in time and had to abandon it.

Turnlog
Spoiler :

Pre-flight:
Tax: 90 %
Lux: 10 %
Income 87 gpt
Treasury: 3161 g

Unit count: 98
1 Settler
8 workers
2 warriors
15 spearmen
2 horsemen
5 pikemen
12 catapults
4 armies
43 immortals
6 trebuchets

Support: 66 (32 gpt unit costs)

Short term goals:
- Abandon Chigaco and found city S-SW of original location.
- Return Persepolis to settler production when possible. Right now 4 other cities are making a settler, combined with the one we already have, we should be good for the short term.

Armies:
- Free up the 1st army currently holding Adrianople, abandon Adrianople if needed. But it looks like we can support it if we settle in between Sinop and Adrianople on a river.
- Eastern Pipsqueek army is healing in Sinop and will continue to raze towns when Sinop has a defender.
- The two eastern armmies are currently tied up. One with the Babylonian rush, which reached Darius Kabir, the other is in Chigaco and will need to help out with resettling Chigaco S-SW and the French stack.I'm guessing the Bab stack moved so far in because of their town way behind our lines.

We can still build Immortals. Always figured we'd have to build MDI's now.
West Greebley is in trouble it looks like. Nasty Aztec stack right next to the citie and no movement left? Has a river and walls though, so should be a nice slaughter on the IBT.

There's a Bab swordsman next to Tureng pe with no walls and an unfortified spearman.

Can't do anything about it, hope the spear wins.

Pre-IBT
Move 1st army and kill two swords, Byz and Korean (2 of 2)

I recognize the need for horsemen, at least we should have knights soon.
The Koreans not stacking their units is pretty annoying.

Press enter
Aztecs and Koreans ignore West Greebley, guess they want the workers near by.
French stack withdraws to attack Americans it looks like Japanese force moves all the way to Bactra. :(

Bab swordsman attack Tureng pe and beats spearman, we lose 52 gold and a town. (2 of 3)

Perhaps it was better to disband, but I say that now I know the spearman lost.

Persepolis Horseman -> Immortal
Aydin Treb -> Treb

Turn 1, 560 AD
Looks like it's not in range of anything in the coming IBT, so I decide to worker abandon Chigaco. Worker is in 1 turn, I halt growth. Hope it draws back the Babylonians in the IBT since it's now empty.

Found Chicagogo -> walls

Cyrus army kills horseman (3 of 4)
Kill 2 Korean sword at Greebley (5 of 6)

Take a bit of risk but kills the Bab bowman, swordsman and Jap horse near ruins of Turen Pe. (8 of 9)

1st army kills 2 Byz MDI (10 of 11)

Clear units around Bactra, one horseman promotes (14 of 15)

Kill Jap archer at Pee Wee (15 of 16)

Whew, completely miscalculated, horsemen can reach Chicago. Abandon it.

IBT
Lot of movement, no attacks. Japs place a big stack on a hill 2 NE of Bactra. Incans move two settler pairs right next to our army. Yummy.

Pasadena Immortal -> Immortal
Phananium Immortal -> Immortal
Icky Twerp Treb -> Treb

Turn 2, 570 AD
Time to deal with the Japanese stack and a Bab spear that got lost.
Ping the warrior, then kills two horsemen with Cyrus.
Elite Immortal from Seattle kills Bab Spearman, the next elite immortal from Seattle

kills archer and gives us Achaemenus a great leader. (19 of 20)

Fill army in Seattle, Achaemenus 5th Immortal Army. Add three vets, can add Achaemenus next turn.

Army quickly kills two more horseman and regular units mop up. (23 of 24)

Killing an incan spear and archer nets us 4 more slaves (27 of 28)

Western army kills otto spear and arrives at Antalya, new Otto Capitol. And it looks to be on the coast.

Clear four units in the west. But lose an elite immortal against a 2hp swordsman (32 of 34)

I think they're dropping settlers on our south eastern coast by boats, I spot a German town next to the Babylonian one.

I put Persepolis back on settler production. I feel short of them right now and I think it's not as bad as it looks.

IBT
Kill archer on defense (33 of 35)
Arbela Immortal -> immortal
Shiraz Immortal -> Immortal
Peppermint horseman -> immortal
Plains plains barracks -> pikeman

Turn 3, 580 AD
We kill 2 spears and capture Antalya, we've destroyed the Ottomans. City loses the fish tile, so it will starve. (35 of 37)-> walls

2 spears around Greebley (37 of 39)

Scatter the Inca workers since I cant bring them home.

Catapult catastrophe at Peppermint, followed by losing an immortal to 2hp swordsman. (40 of 43)

Finish things up at Chicagogo, last Jap horsemen dies (41 of 44)

Found Behistun -> walls

IBT
Worker scatter is fun the AI says. They completely forgot about the low hp army. And even pulled back troops to cover the workers after they were caught.

Persepolis Settler -> Settler
Adrianople walls -> barracks
Antalya starves to size 2
Egrili barracks -> Pikeman
Pee-wee pikeman -> Immortal
Johhny Quest (I hated that show) Treb -> Treb

Babylonians start on Sun Tzu's.`

turn 4, 590 AD
In the east, defeat 2 bab swords, 1 spear, 1 bowman and french spear (46 of 49)
In the northwest, defeat aztec spear and 2 swords, 2 korean spears and a sword (52 of 55)

Making a lot of attacks with elites now, no luck since last army though.

Armies are at 6, 9, 10, 10 and 14 hp right now. So most will need to recuperate.

Byzantines are only interested in Adrianople. Aztecs and Koreans for the most part land between Peppermint and Peewees. Babylonians new units seem to now arrive at Chicagogo, which is good.

IBT
See the first Korean MDI.
French and Americans continue their little war.

Istanbul settler -> trebuchet
Pasadena Immortal -> Immortal
Sidon Settler -> Immortal
Dariush Kabir barracks -> pikeman
Horse town walls -> barracks

Japanese also start on Sun Tzu's.

Turn 5, 600 AD
In the northwest. I hate catapults, six attempts, two hits of defense 2. Lose an elite immortal only redlining a swordsman. Finally get rid of the korean spear and sword.

Kill two byzantine mdi and 1 sword at Adrianople (57 of 61)

I've spotted an Byzantine iron supply when I took Antalya, going to leave the town empty to pillage it. Spot more coastline, so I'll take it instead next turn.

The east.
Kill Babylonian spear guarding a settler. Slice and dice a Babylonian sword and bowman (60 of 64)

We spot a grey settler stack, which I might have seen before, they look a lot like the French. We meet the Indians. Four settler stacks in total, so I'm guessing land is coming at a premium. I might have seen them earlier, but the colors confused me.

Indians have wine, but no iron or horses it looks like. They have a total of 15 cities.And don't know engineering or republic. We declare.

Kill babylonian spear and sword, lose an elite horseman. Get rid of 2 Japanese archers (64 of 69)

IBT
One army defeats two babylonian swords on defense at Chicagogo, redlines pretty bad.
Another Immortal defends against an American horseman, didn't know they had horses
At Adrianople, I almost get a heart attack when three Byzantine MDI's whittle the army down to 12 hp. Next MDI kills the immortal that was also there.(70 of 76)

Arbela Immortal -> aquaduct
Seattle barracks -> trebuchet
Peppermint Immortal -> Immortal

Peppermint gets a nice cultural expansion.

Bicowville riots, since I removed its garrison last turn. Hire a taxman for now.

Turn 6, 610 AD
West.
Kill 2 spears and capture Varna. Send a captured slave to scout mountain at the coast and manage to park it right next to a Byzantine settler stack dropped by dromon.
Kill Korean MDI and 3 swords. (76 of 82)

1st army is down to 1 hp so I will abandon Adrianople.

East.
Start barracks in Lisbon, it starts to get a lot of traffic.
Dispose of Japanese spear and archer
Kill 3 German swords, not a big first stack at all. (81 of 87)

IBT
Ye gods! Settler stacks everywhere! They're everywhere and can't be stopped! I guess this is how the people in Arizone must feel like? :mischief:

Aztec stacks decides to chase our army.
And apparently there's a bit more than the inital 4 german swords. Since I'm now looking at a total of 7 swords, 1 archer, 2 spears and 3 warriors.

Shiraz Immortal -> Immortal
Tyre horseman -> Horseman
Bicowville Pikeman -> Pikeman

Turn 7, 620 AD
West.
Kill 3 swords of different colors and a spear. Lose an immortal to a spear, didn't shave off a single hp... (85 of 92)

Kind of messed up big now, probably lose another horse in the IBT, because I left it exposed. Didn't count the tiles it moved.

East.
Finish 3 germans, putting affairs in order, for the big stack (88 of 95)

IBT
Our lookout spear defends against 3 french swords before falling.
The horse dies like I figured, foresight of the consequences of my own stupidity. (91 of 100)

Persepolis Settler -> Ehm.. don't remember the cycle it was on. I guess it should have been 6-8? Put it on immortal until size 6.
Pasadena Immortal -> Immortal
Phantanium Immortal -> horseman
Bactra horseman -> Immortal

Most of the Babylonian forces withdraw, I'm guessing someone declared on them.

Americans start on Sun Tzu's.

Turn 8, 630 AD
West.
Found Kandahar -> walls

Korean settler pair and an aztec sword (93 of 102)

East
Bab bowman
Dispose of 5 german swords and 2 spears (98 of 109)

Really have no idea what to do with these settler pairs. Might as well take them when the town has grown to size 2.

IBT

Lots of boring movement

Peppermint Immortal -> Immortal

Germans start on Sun Tzu's

Turn 9, 640 AD
West.
Defeat Aztec spear, sword and archer. All elite kills no leader. (101 of 112)

East.
Bleh, elite horseman loses to a 2 hp warrior, we kill the last of the german stack (105 of 117)
Clear 3 more units + settlerpairs to protect workers (110 of 122)

Finally, kill Babylonian bowman for another great leader and some other thing, looked orange (112 of 124)

Will take some time to find immortals to add.

IBT

Lots of movement, see yellow, later find out they're Egypt.

Hamadan Treb -> Treb

Turn 10, 650 AD
We meet another settler stack from Egypt. They have 14 cities and only wine as luxury, they don't have any MA tech. We declare.

I'll pass it along here, since I'm pretty beat.
 

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