Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
what have i created?
Great Quotes II: Source and Context are Key
- Thread starter SS-18 ICBM
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Did Robeson have his career wrecked by Orwell? I'm also not convinced that the 'opening the door' argument is valid: McCarthy was an ocean away, and nothing like HUAC ever existed in the UK. What McCarthy did was entirely personal and had nothing to do with inspiration from Orwell. If nothing else, the list was extremely secret and only revealed in 1998. Orwell wasn't very nice about anyone black, homosexual or Jewish, but the worst that happened to anybody was that they weren't offered a job - for which they would never have asked - at the IRD.
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
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Another favorite quote of mine (LBJ is just too great/quotable):
F*u'ck your parliament and your constitution. America is an elephant. Cyprus is a flea. Greece is a flea. If these two fleas continue itching the elephant, they may just get whacked good ...We pay a lot of good American dollars to the Greeks, Mr. Ambassador. If your Prime Minister gives me talk about democracy, parliament and constitution, he, his parliament and his constitution may not last long...
- LBJ
F*u'ck your parliament and your constitution. America is an elephant. Cyprus is a flea. Greece is a flea. If these two fleas continue itching the elephant, they may just get whacked good ...We pay a lot of good American dollars to the Greeks, Mr. Ambassador. If your Prime Minister gives me talk about democracy, parliament and constitution, he, his parliament and his constitution may not last long...
- LBJ
rugbyLEAGUEfan
Deity
Appreciated and concurred with.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
With the discussion, or the pedantry?For that you are fortunate. Though I wonder why not? Certainly the red tide rose higher in UK than the US; hell, one of your major political parties today is descended from a socialism of sorts. Why do you think this is so? Was it the government's inability/unwillingness to deal with Reds in the way the US government did? Or were there other reasons for this tolerance and/or sympathy?
I think that with this, you have answered your own question about whether or not Orwell was a socialist.
bestrfcplayer
Steppin' up!
A simple quote that I found (was inspired by reddit to look this up).
"You know, you don't have to look like everybody else to be acceptable and to feel acceptable."
-Fred (Mister) Rogers
"You know, you don't have to look like everybody else to be acceptable and to feel acceptable."
-Fred (Mister) Rogers
"I wouldn't say we necessarily fight crime so much as we...take care of problems that need to be solved with violence."
-Dr. McNinja
-Dr. McNinja
"A sufficiently advanced illusion is indistinguishable from reality."
-David Malki !
Woo, doubleposting?
-David Malki !
Woo, doubleposting?
classical_hero
In whom I trust
That sound very much like the Arthur C Clarke quote about technology.
You may have put your finger on it with the first sentence - in Europe, socialism has never been a dirty word. I'm not entirely sure, in fact, why Americans have always so violently opposed it - it was always informal code that anyone describing themself as a 'communist' in the UK was a Marx-reading bearded revolutionary, and anyone describing themself as a 'socialist' was the second son of an Earl with a social conscience. Few Communist Party members were open about it until quite recently, but the Labour Party maintained Clause IV until the 1990s, and that reads like something out of Das Kapital. Perhaps because moderate socialism has always been part of British politics - it's arguably an older tradition in the UK than Marxism - the movement as a whole was never demonised?
Oh, that wasn't the question; the question was whether he was expressing a blind support for governmental power or a blind opposition to the enforcement of the law. I can't say either one impresses me, which is why I was underwhelmed by the quote. Mind you, Orwell was a writer, not a politician, so you might consider his political views an amusing distraction.
Anyway. I think we've derailed the thread enough. Here's one of my favourite couplets from Shakespeare:
Antony in 'Julius Caesar' said:
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
"It is the privelege of historians to be wise after the event, and the more foolish the historian the wiser he usually claims to be." - C. L. R. James, The Black Jacobins
It was a very much intentional reference.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
“Listen to the cry of a woman in labor at the hour of giving birth — look at the dying man’s struggle at his last extremity, and then tell me whether something that begins and ends thus could be intended for enjoyment.” - Søren Kierkegaard
Cheerful bugger, eh?
Cheerful bugger, eh?
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
"Forget the fiction of LeCarre's novel "The Constant Gardener." This real-life tale of hired thugs of questionable nationality, prominent Kenyans, massive corruption, blackmail, threats, and narcotics trafficking schemes, reads like a script Hollywood would reject as unbelievable."
-Leslie Rowe (US Deputy Chief of Mission in Kenya) to the US Department of State, on the machinations behind the 2 March 2006 raid on The Standard, 06NAIROBI1187
-Leslie Rowe (US Deputy Chief of Mission in Kenya) to the US Department of State, on the machinations behind the 2 March 2006 raid on The Standard, 06NAIROBI1187
"I sometimes wonder if one reason he so intractably resists conventional analysis arises of prejudice inherited from your European aesthetician Aristotle. His analysis of narrative structure in Poetics is invaluable for comprehending the elements of drama; because it is so valuable - and because a human being is ater all primarily a creator of narrative - we reflexively reach for Aristotle's pen to etch our understanding of Caine.
Aristotelian drama begins with the recognition that the world has become disordered; dramatic structure is the bringing of order from chaos. In tragedy, order is restored through destruction; in comedy, order is restored through marriage or reunion. What is fundamental is the conception that disorder is an unnatural state. Order is not created, but restored.
I believe this is why we falter in the face of Caine.
No single principle can capture him completely; as he likes to observe, all rules are rules of thumb - yet this in no way justifies abandoning our attempt. I have compelling reason to reflect upon Caine's mythometaphysical significance; as your viewers will recall, I was not only destroyed by his hand, but was in a sense created by him as well.
Caine's life has nothing to do with the restoration of order. It has nothing to do with restoration of any kind. He sees nothing to restore.
For Caine, order is a delusion: a film of rationality we create to veil the random brutality of existence. His narrative arc leads from one state of chaos to another. And this is related only tangentially to the Prince of Chaos twaddle promulgated by the Church of Beloved Children in Ankhana, which has made of him a convenient Satan to my Yahweh.
It is more accurate to see in him an expression of natural law, what your thinkers call the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Though this too is incomplete enough to be deceptive; there is nothing random or disordered in his actions. Quite the opposite: the supposed order he destroys is one in which those he loves are in danger or in pain.
He does not seek safety; for him, safety is illusory at best, and the very concept is a dangerous delusion. He seeks only a more congenial chaos.
This is, I believe, the root of his power.
The concept of restoration limits most thinking creatures. We fear to do that which cannot be undone - to break the order that comforts us - because to do so lets chaos in. But because for Caine there is no safety and no order, there is nothing for him to fear. He does the irrevocable because for him everything is irrevocable.
Caine may be Earth's greatest living master of the absolute."
-Artisan Tan'elKoth (formerly Ma'elKoth, First Ankhanan Emperor and Patriarch of the elKothan Church), a recorded interview with Jed Clearlake on Adventure Update, for the (never aired) seventh anniversary celebration of For Love of Pallas Ril
from the novel Caine's Law, by Matthew Stover
Aristotelian drama begins with the recognition that the world has become disordered; dramatic structure is the bringing of order from chaos. In tragedy, order is restored through destruction; in comedy, order is restored through marriage or reunion. What is fundamental is the conception that disorder is an unnatural state. Order is not created, but restored.
I believe this is why we falter in the face of Caine.
No single principle can capture him completely; as he likes to observe, all rules are rules of thumb - yet this in no way justifies abandoning our attempt. I have compelling reason to reflect upon Caine's mythometaphysical significance; as your viewers will recall, I was not only destroyed by his hand, but was in a sense created by him as well.
Caine's life has nothing to do with the restoration of order. It has nothing to do with restoration of any kind. He sees nothing to restore.
For Caine, order is a delusion: a film of rationality we create to veil the random brutality of existence. His narrative arc leads from one state of chaos to another. And this is related only tangentially to the Prince of Chaos twaddle promulgated by the Church of Beloved Children in Ankhana, which has made of him a convenient Satan to my Yahweh.
It is more accurate to see in him an expression of natural law, what your thinkers call the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Though this too is incomplete enough to be deceptive; there is nothing random or disordered in his actions. Quite the opposite: the supposed order he destroys is one in which those he loves are in danger or in pain.
He does not seek safety; for him, safety is illusory at best, and the very concept is a dangerous delusion. He seeks only a more congenial chaos.
This is, I believe, the root of his power.
The concept of restoration limits most thinking creatures. We fear to do that which cannot be undone - to break the order that comforts us - because to do so lets chaos in. But because for Caine there is no safety and no order, there is nothing for him to fear. He does the irrevocable because for him everything is irrevocable.
Caine may be Earth's greatest living master of the absolute."
-Artisan Tan'elKoth (formerly Ma'elKoth, First Ankhanan Emperor and Patriarch of the elKothan Church), a recorded interview with Jed Clearlake on Adventure Update, for the (never aired) seventh anniversary celebration of For Love of Pallas Ril
from the novel Caine's Law, by Matthew Stover
Sri Aurobindo
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Does he work for Hallmark?
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