Greek communication thread

[lost_civantares]

I really see no reason, if you don't mind me saying so, to not give engineering. First of all we are trying to build an allience, denying the tech despite the fact that we are going to give to them eventually will not help, and second of all there is no reason to aggravate them, I doubt that a tech is going to dissuade them from keeping or breaking their treaty with the Galls. Warn them of the threat of the situation ("With both the Iroq and the people of Iron weakened by war, the Galls will only go from strength to strength, to the severe disadvantage of MIA with out your help" ).

 

[greekguy]

we should give MIA engineering, since they want it and we want them to decalre on Galls. the only way they will do something we want is if we give them something they want. we give engineering, they give us chivalry, and we convince them to declare on Galls. i'll work on a message concerning giving them engineering for chivalry and asking them to declare if you guys agree with me.

 

[Strider]

I propose the following reply to the greeks:

Hello to our friends and allies.

Unluckily, this is not a joke. We've requested an extension for our turn inorder to prepare battle plans, as I believe you can see. In complete honesty, the galls have caught us with our pants down AND our shirt off. However, we are far from defenseless.

We will have 7 new and shiny immortals at our disposal next turn. In a small span of 5 turns we may have well over a dozen. Our production capabilities will far out match anything they can throw at us. They will tremble in fear at the raw power they have unleashed.

TNT, if we must fall, we will guarantee that the foreign invaders take a dozen blows to each of ours. We are determined to make the galls pay for every move they make. If the war on our continent turns in our favor, then we will take the battle to the gallic homeland. This treachery must not go unpunished and we will bring justice down upon them.

However, we are not over-confident. The war is winnable without aid, but the chances are far to close for our liking. The galls have 8 gallic swordsmen on our continent and we believe that they have even more on the way. 8 gallic swordsmen is no small army and if they have upwards of a dozen on the way, then were betting their homeland is pretty defenseless at the moment. Now would be the perfect time for MIA to strike at their hostile northern neighbors.

An attack on your part on the galls will aid us greatly, drawing critical reinforcements from our front. Not only that, but it would be a perfect time to strike while you have an ally capable of supporting you. The galls have already proven that they are hostile, would you rather meet them in the field of battle by yourselves, or with an ally?

If you do decide that war is not in your nations interest at this time, we do understand. Whatever aid you can give us, be it technological, finicial, or military would be greatly appreciated. Gold would be very welcome, as our Immortals are stronger than the gallic swordsmen, cheaper, and easy to build. We plan on using as much gold as possible to rush Immortals and Pikemen.

We do have an additional problem. The Iroqi to our Southern borders have never been "friendly." A few years ago, Iroqi Mounted horsemen moved dangerously close to our borders. We requested that they be removed, and the Iroqi has complied to that request. This leads us to believe that the attack was not a coordinated effort between the Galls and Iroqi. However, if the Iroqi decide to take advantage of the gallic attack is still unknown to us.

I expect greekguy would want to modify it some, he's the diplomat afterall, but I think you guys get the gist of it.

 

[greekguy]

thanks for the write up Strider, it is very good. i like most of it, but i think i'll change a few things. here's my modified reply:

Hello to our friends and allies.

Unfortunately, this is no joke. We've requested an extension for our turn in order to prepare battle plans, as I believe you can see. In complete honesty, the Galls have caught us with our pants down AND our shirt off. However, we are far from defenseless.

We will have 7 new and shiny Immortals at our disposal next turn. In a small span of 5 turns we may have well over a dozen. Our production capabilities will far out match anything they can throw at us. Our treasury is large enough to rush a great number of units, and we plan on spending as much money as possible to train brave Ironic people to fight the Galls. They will tremble in fear at the raw power they have awakened.

TNT, if we do fall, will guarantee that the foreign invaders take a dozen blows to each of ours. We are determined to make the Galls pay for every move they make. If the war on our continent turns in our favor, then we will take the battle to the gallic homeland. This treachery must not go unpunished and we will bring justice down upon them. The Wrath of Meelet will be unleashed on the foolish, arrogant, unsophisticated Galls.

However, we are not arrogant, unlike the Galls. The war is winnable without aid, but the chances are far to close for our liking. The Galls have 8 Gallic swordsmen on our continent and we believe that they have even more on the way. 8 Gallic swordsmen is no small army and if they have upwards of a dozen on the way, then we're betting their homeland is pretty defenseless at the moment. Now would be the perfect time for MIA to strike at their hostile northern neighbors.

An attack by your armies on the Galls will aid us greatly, drawing critical reinforcements from our front. Not only that, but it would be a perfect time to strike while you have an ally capable of supporting you. We can deal with the influx of Gallic swords for the time being, but if they continue to land soldiers on our shores, we will eventually be overmatched. If you were to invade the KISS homeland, their production centers will be threatened, and their newly built units would have to defend their cities, instead of attacking ours. The Galls have already proven that they are hostile, would you rather meet them in the field of battle by yourselves, or with an ally?

If you do decide that war is not in your nation's interest at this time, we do understand. Whatever aid you can give us, be it technological, financial, or military would be greatly appreciated. Gold would be very welcome, as our Immortals are stronger than the Gallic swordsmen, cheaper, and easy to build. We plan on using as much gold as possible to rush Immortals and Pikemen.

We do have an additional problem. The Iroqi to our Southern borders have never been "friendly." A few years ago, Iroqi Mounted Warriors moved dangerously close to our borders. We requested that they be removed, and the Iroqi did comply to that request. This leads us to believe that the attack was not a coordinated effort between the Galls and the Iroqi. However, if the Iroqi decide to take advantage of the Gallic attack we would be in a very difficult predicament. If the Iroqi do decide to attack us, we would be destroyed, unless you come to our aid.

May be as strong allies in war, as we were in peace.

Please reply soon.

Bye for now.

greekguy, TNT Greek Ambassador

is this good? should i send it to MIA?

 

[donsig]

For the record, I am against trying to paint a rosy picture for the Greeks. If they think we can withstand this attack then they will be more apt to stand by and do nothing.But we need to keep this dialogue going with the Greeks. I'd send the message so we can keep the ball rolling.

I really don't think we should just give up engineering to them for chivalry. I don't see that chivalry will help us. As someone pointed out we can make two immortals for each knight we made. How about trying to get some gold for engineering and let them keep chivalry?

 

[greekguy]

ok, message sent to the Greeks. i see your point donsig, concerning us giving MIA engineering. maybe we should ask for gold in exchange for engineering in our next message.

 

[BCLG100]

Maybe we should just give them engineering in an attempt at good relations and then ask for gold seperatly, do not ask for chivalry in return.

 

[greekguy]

Dear greekguy

It is with shock and dismay that we receive your news of war with KISS.

Unfortunately, we have only just signed the peace treaty that we were pursuing for our own nation's security and therefore cannot 'distract' KISS in any manner that would assist you in the short term.

All we are able to do immediately is swap Chivalry for Engineering. There is however a strict caveat on the swap which is that TNT shall not trade this knowledge onto any other team unless it is agreed to first by MIA as we would want to know the reason for the trade.

We can also guarantee that we will not join KISS in their actions against you and are discussing many options in which we can indirectly assist your cause.

We urge you to try and secure a long term peace with the Doughnuts, even if it means the surrendering of territory and/or cities. As we see it, if the Nutters join KISS in the attack, you will have to consolidate and split your units to fight on two fronts, this will inevitably result in the loss of those fringe towns anyway. If a Chivalry trade can ensure a long period of peace with the Nuts then we would probably look favourably on the request. We would probably also expect a similar non-trade caveat be placed on such a deal, which would prevent Nuts presenting it to KISS.

In the meantime, we will do our utmost to persuade the Nutters that signing a long term peace is in their best interest.

Regarding options for us to directly assist in your war with KISS, we would only be able to irritate them by having units and ships attempt to block their way. However this will do no more than slightly stall their advance and perhaps give them greater reason to rage onto you, yet another reason to secure a peace with the Nuts.

I am assuming that the Great Library has been abandoned, if not then do so and see to your defence.

We feel somewhat impotent at this stage but know this, we are exploring every avenue possible to aid you in your time of need.

May the great Meleet grant you boon in future military action against the unbelievers.


Sincerely yours


Feaurius III
Foreign Minister MIA.

i can't believe them!! after all the years of being strong allies of them and trading fairly with them, they leave us for dead. they say they can't attack KISS directly because it will agitate them. that's BS. they're afraid for their effinn honor, which will be damaged if they break the peace deal with KISS. don't they realize that if they don't declare on KISS now, and let KISS destroy us, there will be no alliances to sign in the future, 'cause D'Nuts and the Galls will team up on them. they're so damn stupid, and it might cost us the game.

i'll write up a response later trying to coax them into declaring on KISS (which looks it will be an effort done in vein at this point), and getting gold in exchange for engineering.

 

[Strider]

I recommend not pushing the war issue with MIA. They don't want to join the war, it's disappointing, but it's their choice in then end. They've proven their friendship by telling us to skip the Great Library pre-build and work on our defense. Let's not lose an ally with pointless demands.

Instead, let's focus on what non-military aid we can get from them. Tell them that we need gold and as much of it as their willing to give us. We have enough defense, our problem with that is just that all our defensive units is down south. What we have to do is raise an offensive army as fast as possible. Were going to be draining our treasury into nothing, and whatever they can give us would almost double the effects.

 

[BCLG100]

We dont really want chivalry, if we get it and somehow end up signing a peace treaty with KISS theres a fair chance they'll demand it and we dont really want to give them another tech.

 

[donsig]

Let's also tell them we don't want chivalry but want gold for engineering. Lots of gold. Gold up front. Gold per turn. Let's ask them how long the we have to hold out in this war before they can attack with honor - in other words, how long is the peace treaty they've signed with the savage Galls?

 

[greekguy]

alright, here's my proposed reply. feedback appreciated.

Dear MIA,

My people understand your inability to declare on the devious Galls at this time. We will have to wait, it appears, until your peace treaty with the Galls ends. Concerning this, we would like to know when your treaty with KISS ends, so we can hopefully use this as a planning year, to possibly coordinate attacks on the Galls. So, if you could provide us with the information, of the length of your peace treaty, it would be much appreciated.

Now, dealing with the proposed tech deal of Engineering for Chivalry. My people have determined Chivalry is not needed at this time, and we fear that the Galls might demand Chivalry from us after the war as possible concessions. Thus, we are proposing trading our knowledge of Engineering for a large sum of gold. Please tell us how much you would pay for Engineering. We need gold and lots of it in the coming turns to rush build units and send them to the battlefront. We will drain our treasury dry, but we fear it will not be enough. How much gold can you spare us, in either lump sum or gold per turn form? Please get back to us on this issue soon.

Bye for now.

greekguy, TNT Greek Ambassador

 

[BCLG100]

yup seems good, send it. could also maybe talk about swapping a city for gold, so they'd have one on this island and also a luxury.

 

[lost_civantares]

Cities will be rather valuble though to us at this time, so I'd be careful about that.

 

[greekguy]

message sent. we could possibly offer them a city in the next message, if you guys all want to. although, i would be opposed to offering MIA a city on our continent.

 

[BCLG100]

Im talking about a last ditch thing here, could do a city trade, one on their continent for one on ours, would mean we wont die if the galls over run this continent and we could go into hiding for awhile.

 

[lost_civantares]

Are you sure that's legal? I seem to remember something about that in the rules, in another game (I guess in an ISDG), a team that was in serious trouble was given a city by their ally, and later that was ruled a no-no, or that's at least what I remember.

 

[BCLG100]

not totally sure its legal but cities have been traded throughout history so i figured if we had one on each island it wouldnt be so bad but maybe im wrong, need an admins opinion on this.

 

[RegentMan]

Bolding added by me.

1.8 Enjoining Teams

Description: No team or individual is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise trade multiple cities with the intent of joining teams to destroy another team and keep both teams alive to survive to the end. If a team decides to drop out however, its players are allowed to change teams as permitted under Section 0.3.

Definition: A team trading one or more cities to another team for the purpose of either granting that team an advantage (premature contact with another civ, map information, etc.), or denying an aggressor the right of conquest.

Trading and/or gifting cities is permitted, but each transaction shall be reviewed by the administrators of the game. If a specific transaction is considered to be in violation of the spirit of this law, then the traded/gifted cities may be forcibly returned to their original owner(s) or simply abandoned at the sole discretion of the administrators.

As a general rule, the administrators will consider city gifts/trades that are temporary in nature (i.e. only a few turns in duration) and those given/traded for the purpose of granting a team an advantage (premature contact, map information, etc.) or to deny another team the right of conquest to be against the spirit of this law.

Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing contact and location information to be traded before they are allowed in-game or to unfairly prevent a conquering civ from taking your cities.

 

[BCLG100]

Ah k then thats a no then, still could we gift a city as part of a deal for them to declare war or something?