Greek communication thread

[donsig]

Chamnix was looking for the chat between greekguy and fe333au that was scheduled for tonight. (At least we thought it was for tonight.) He couldn't find greekguy or fe3333au online but did find me so we chatted. I hope you don't mind greekguy. I thought it was important to take the opportunity since he approached me. Here is the log of our conversation:

Chamnix GA: Hi donsig
donsigw: hello!
Chamnix GA: I thought there was supposed to be a big pow-wow tonight...
donsigw: with greekguy?
Chamnix GA: greek guy and fe3333au
donsigw: I usually chat with fe333au on AIM but it seems to be too early for him
Chamnix GA: greekguy sent us a letter saying tonight was good for him, and I thought fe3333au said it was OK for him too
donsigw: Isn't fe3333au in Australia?
donsigw: Probably morning there
Chamnix GA: yeah, but he keeps strange hours..
donsigw: so do I - that's why I can chat with him
Chamnix GA: lol
donsigw: he's off line right now
Chamnix GA: him and greekguy both
Chamnix GA: I guess it's not happening tonight
donsigw: we can chat
Chamnix GA: ok
Chamnix GA: I guess we need to talk about research strategy for one thing
donsigw: yes
donsigw: trying to get on the forums and having a little trouble
Chamnix GA: we don't think there is a lot of need for either of us to get printing press
donsigw: ok - I thought it would be good since it's a pre-req for democracy (isn't it>?)
Chamnix GA: it is
Chamnix GA: you think you want to change to demo?
donsigw: well we all do eventually!
donsigw: the thing is we're not in a position to start research yet
Chamnix GA: understood
Chamnix GA: any enemies in sight?
donsigw: if you all are almost done with education then your next choices are invention or something after education
Chamnix GA: right
donsigw: we can do education or theology.
donsigw: it would take us 21 turns to get invention
donsigw: I need a few minutes - gotta do a little work - will not be long
Chamnix GA: ok
donsigw: still there?
Chamnix GA: yep
donsigw: Ok, I can go back to my dinner and our talk
Chamnix GA: no talking with your mouth full ;-)
donsigw: lol
donsigw: now, I think I was saying that it would take us 21 turns to research invention
donsigw: that's way too long so I'm hoping you guys will be researching that path - we may need gunpowder
donsigw: that's why I suggested we do printing press - because we only need to get theology from you in order to start it
donsigw: if we wanted to research something else then we'd need both theology and education from you and we haven't much to offer for both
Chamnix GA: I can't speak for my team, but I don't think democracy is that much better than Republic
Chamnix GA: for 2000+ beakers and 7+ turns of anarchy, I think we are better off staying as republics
donsigw: well, we do not have our hearts set on democracy right now
donsigw: we are in what I think will be along war
Chamnix GA: democracy would definitely be bad then
donsigw: agreed for now
donsigw: so, there are two paths to research - the one to military tradition and the one from education
donsigw: if we take the military tradition path I fear the Galls will get there way before us - and that would be bad
Chamnix GA: i agree
Chamnix GA: here is my opinion
donsigw: but if you do the military tradition path that leaves the after education path for us
Chamnix GA: (fe3333au might yell at me for having this chat)
donsigw: yes, and greekguy at me
Chamnix GA: i was hoping you could do invention next
Chamnix GA: because I don't think printing press is valuable
Chamnix GA: and nothing else is available
Chamnix GA: after you complete that, then we would switch paths and MIA would do gunpowder
donsigw: we could but you must understand that if we started invention now it would take us 21 turns - and we cannot start yet!
donsigw: it may be thirty turns before we actually have invention
Chamnix GA: hmm
donsigw: now, some news - the Galls have a settler over here
Chamnix GA: wow
donsigw: he is in the midst of a big stack anf they are all on a hill
donsigw: with a vet pike
donsigw: BCLG has been chatting with KISS members and they want land over here for peace
Chamnix GA: on the iron hill on your east?
donsigw: the very hill
donsigw: we have iron from another source
Chamnix GA: what are you thinking of doing?
donsigw: we just found this last turn
donsigw: we have a stack of our own near by but the odds of our immortals destroying that stack is not good
donsigw: we are debating whether the best course is to try to destroy the city or flip it
donsigw: well there is no city yet but I'm sure they will build on that hill
Chamnix GA: if the city stays, would gallics be able to reach your towns in 1 turn?
donsigw: I don't think so. We have a stack of pikes and immortals nearby - we could attack any GSs that sally forth
donsigw: but the longer this goes on the more chance they have o f landing elsewhere
Chamnix GA: tough call
donsigw: we're building a couple trebuchets next turn
donsigw: we have been saving our gold so we could rush libraries to try to flip it
donsigw: but we need more pikes to protect the cities we plan to rebuild
donsigw: and it all comes down to us having to keep research off for awhile longer
Chamnix GA: I understand
donsigw: and with the Nutters and Galls trading techs that leaves us scientific types with the prospects of being left behind!
Chamnix GA: well, I'm not sure what we should do now
Chamnix GA: I think you are better off not researching a tech like printing press in any case
Chamnix GA: instead of trading techs we can sell you cheap techs
Chamnix GA: you can just save money while we research
Chamnix GA: we can use the money to fuel more research
Chamnix GA: and hopefully we can keep up with the KISSNuts that way
donsigw: trouble is, most of the gold we generate may go to the war effort
Chamnix GA: i know, but then you can't research anyway
donsigw: yes, but the point I'm making is that we may not even be able to afford cheap techs :-(
donsigw: let's say we can start researching again in ten turns
donsigw: if we could do that what would your team like us to work on?
Chamnix GA: i don't know
Chamnix GA: we were hoping you could do invention next, but that may be too long to wait
Chamnix GA: we'll have to talk about it
donsigw: aren't you close to finishing education?
Chamnix GA: yes
donsigw: planning to start a new tech right away or are you willing to hold off a turn or two?
Chamnix GA: we would probably start either banking or astronony right away
Chamnix GA: but we could hold off i guess
donsigw: do you know the relative costs of invention / banking and astronomy?
Chamnix GA: invention = 44 base, banking = 52, astronony = 56
donsigw: so if invention takes us 21 turns then the others would take even longer
Chamnix GA: right
Chamnix GA: invention should take you less because I assume KISS will complete it first
donsigw: I think my team-mates would not be opposed to researching invention but we just can't start it yet
donsigw: we'll have a better idea in couple turns
Chamnix GA: ok
donsigw: maybe 3 turns when we have a silk hooked up
donsigw: has there been any talk on your team about selling us theology?
donsigw: we'd like to trade luxes for tech
Chamnix GA: we were hoping to trade Theology for Invention, but I'm almost positive we will accept luxes for techs in general
donsigw: invention for education or something after that
Chamnix GA: should be fine
donsigw: what luxes do you need? silks? wines?
donsigw: ivory? furs?
Chamnix GA: we have ivory, furs, incense, spices, and dyes as native luxes
donsigw: spices? nice
Chamnix GA: only 1 source unfortunately
donsigw: spices and dyes are not over here
Chamnix GA: KISS got 3
Chamnix GA: no gems or silks on our continent
donsigw: so silk and wine is the only thing left we can trade you
donsigw: we're trying to corner the silk and gem market
donsigw: the Nutters built a city and took one of our gems
donsigw: but we will have a little culture fight over that ;-)
Chamnix GA: you can't win a culture fight
Chamnix GA: if their town is next to the gems and your town is 2 away, then it will always be theirs
donsigw: even if they have no culture in their city?
Chamnix GA: yep - the only culture war you can win is over tiles that are equidistant
Chamnix GA: if one city is closer, then that city always wins
donsigw: well we'll have build another city then someday
Chamnix GA: that would work
donsigw: we got their incense anyway
Chamnix GA:
donsigw: we may actually have trade deal with the Iroqi
Chamnix GA: good
donsigw: we offered them incense and they offered us wines
donsigw: we accepted because it imples peace
Chamnix GA: yep - 20 turns at least
donsigw: plus we could use the wine
Chamnix GA: yep - no more luxury spending hopefully
donsigw: yeah, we're at ten percent
Chamnix GA: my girlfriend needs the computer...
Chamnix GA: and I still have to play our turn tonight...
Chamnix GA: so I better sign off
donsigw: ok - please talk about selling us theology for silks
donsigw: bye
Chamnix GA: I don't think that will be a problem
Chamnix GA: we may want to wait a bit though
Chamnix GA: Theology is of no immediate use to you
Chamnix GA: and there is no need to reduce the price for our rivals
donsigw: we'll have to - it'll be about 6 or 7 turns before we have the silk
donsigw: asre you posting this chat log?
Chamnix GA: yep
Chamnix GA: fe3333au would really kill me if we talked and I didn't post
donsigw: I will to
Chamnix GA: ok
donsigw: i will post, not kill you
donsigw: bye
Chamnix GA: bye

 

[BCLG100]

hmmm so the greekguy fe33 chat never happened?

 

[greekguy]

well, i went on AIM at the agreed time...ok, ten minutes late...but fe3333au wasn't on. so i waited a few minutes and he never logged on, so i just signed off. thanks for having the chat though, donsig, we found out some good stuff.

if i have a block of free time in the next couple of days and see fe3333au online, then i'll try to chat with him to talk about the rest of the points he proposed in the other PM.

 

[BCLG100]

oh well doesnt matter

 

[greekguy]

oh well doesnt matter

well, donsig did a good job of figuring out how our 2 teams can cooperate to solve the short term problems of KISS war, no research for us, and hopefully a lux deal soon. but i still think we should talk to them about foreign relations with the other teams in the long term and more intel sharing.

 

[BCLG100]

also i thought of maybe another way for us to get out of us giving KISS a tech if we were to agree to that part of the peace treaty, if we were to say not research a tech and just buy them off MIA, strictly speaking that wouldnt be breaking the peace treaty.

 

[greekguy]

also i thought of maybe another way for us to get out of us giving KISS a tech if we were to agree to that part of the peace treaty, if we were to say not research a tech and just buy them off MIA, strictly speaking that wouldnt be breaking the peace treaty.

we could try to trick them, and it should work, but we'd have to get MIA to agree to it. (and who knows, it might damage their "honor" )

 

[BCLG100]

Well not trick, just stipulate in the treaty that it must be researched.

i.e. the next 3 techs researched by TNT

 

[greekguy]

yeah, but we should make sure to not bold the word "researched", they might figure it out then.

 

[BCLG100]

lol yer was just highlighting it so everyone else could see

 

[donsig]

I think fe3333au is in Australia. I see him online alot in the middle of the night here (in New York). I work till 3am sometimes and that's afternoon for him.

 

[donsig]

Rec'd from our friends:

Sorry greekguy ... I have an infected tooth and am on anti-biotics and pain killers ... so am out of action, apart from lurking until further notice.

Chamnix and others were looking out for you ... chatted with Donsig instead ... please respond to the things discussed ... it is important for both of our teams to combine efforts.

Any correspondence should goto g-mail until further notice.

fe3333au

 

[greekguy]

i think we should send a message to the Greeks as a followup to the donsig/chamnix chat.

i'm thinking a message talking about luxury deals (theology for silks, right?), research strategy (who should research what?), and military info sharing (how much do we tell them, how much do we ask for?) would be useful. so, where does our team stand on these items.

 

[donsig]

I'm all for a silks for theology deal. We won't have a silk ready for sale for about five turns though.

One of us needs to research invention soon. I don't think we can start researching again for ten turns. Then it'll take about 20 turns for us to learn invention. It all depends on what the Greeks decide to research. We'll have to take is different path to be efficient. Of course we can't do banking or astronomy unless the Greeks sell us both theology and education cheap.

Tell them all we know about the military situation.

 

[greekguy]

so, does that mean i should tell them about the Gallic war situation or what military units we have?

i'll right up a message either today (if i have time) or tomorrow.

 

[donsig]

I don't think it's necessary to tell them exactly what units we have.

 

[BCLG100]

we should only answer questions about our military that they explicitly ask.

 

[Strider]

Any chance of trying to buy Chivarly off of them? It would help us against the galls if we can throw a few knights in the attacking force.

 

[BCLG100]

well knights are over double the shields for just 1 movement and defence point, i dont think there especially usefull right now, chivalry could maybe used as a batering tech for peace at a future date though.

Also i forget since we lost horsebomb do we even have horses hooked up?

 

[donsig]

We do have horses hooked up. Our current source is in the northwest near Semtex. We could try to buy chivalry but I don't think it's worth it. Both knights and immortals attack at four. Which is better, two immortals attacking at four and moving one or one knight attacking at four and moving two?

Ask the Greeks if the Galls or Iroqi have chivalry yet. If the Galls have it then I'd be more inclined to try to buy it. Otherwise I'd rather buy theology.