How to get a job (or not)

[hobbsyoyo]

It's not quite like that: at least in part, wearing a suit to an interview and generally doing all of the other, slightly over-formal things expected of you communicates that you're willing to 'play the game': by contrast, turning up dressed casually, slouching in your chair and so on might give the impression that you don't have much regard for fitting in with expectations placed upon you by others. That might give somebody pause for thought, or it might work in your favour, depending on the sort of job you're going for. When you turn up for selection or interview as a potential soldier or officer, you do so in a suit, even though you'll never wear one of those at work: the point isn't to see what you look like in a tie, but to see how willing you are to smarten yourself up, how much attention you pay to things like having your hair neat, your tie done up properly, your top button fastened, and so on. Conversely, I suspect an internet startup or another modern, low-hierarchy business would be quite turned off by a candidate appearing in beautifully ironed formal dress and polished shoes, because they're looking for exactly the opposite state of mind.

Yup. My pre-interview instructions for my current job explicitly told me not to wear a suit.

My flight back from the interview arrived at 2am so I stayed the night at my grandmother's instead of driving all the way home from the airport. My grandmother was exceedingly confused as to why I didn't pack a suit and actually got mad at me for not wearing one despite the company telling me not to.

Really, if I had worn a suit it would have hurt my chances of getting the job because it would have shown I wasn't willing to fit into their corporate culture.

 

[Flying Pig]

Precisely. I also like what Atticus said, as a reminder that interviews aren't entirely about an employer selecting an employee, but also a way of the employee working out if they would really like to work in that place.

 

[BvBPL]

But I like wearing a suit and I look damn good in one. I would have much harder time dressing to impress if I was explicitly told not to wear a suit. It is a lot harder to buy jeans or chinos that look good versus slacks.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

But I like wearing a suit and I look damn good in one. I would have much harder time dressing to impress if I was explicitly told not to wear a suit. It is a lot harder to buy jeans or chinos that look good versus slacks.

If a company is telling you not to wear a suit then they are not looking for you to impress them with what you wear at all. Stressing over this would be a decent indication that you (in the 3rd person sense) would not fit in with their corporate culture.

 

[Birdjaguar]

For an interview try to dress one step up from the normal company attire for the position you are seeking. Keep in mind that your only concerns about attire should be that you don't want what you wear to reduce your chance of getting the job or draw attention away from what you can contribute to the company.

 

[Wrymouth3]

If they do not explicitly state what to wear, it's probably best that you go a step above as is suggested here. For example, if you are applying for a documents clerk position at a law firm, wear a suit, dress pants, dress shoes, and a nice watch. If applying for a higher position like a paralegal or administrative assistant: Suit, tie, vest, dress pants, shoes, etc.... The dress code at most law firms for non-attorneys is almost always business casual (Polo and slacks for what it's worth). Go one step above for the interview unless they explicitly tell you do not wear a suit.

 

[ls612]

When I interviewed at Amazon a couple weeks ago they said to dress casually and everyone showed up (there were about 20 of us) in nice jeans and a polo shirt or dress shirt. The interviewers even said that all of us were perfectly dressed to actually work at Amazon. I didn't get an offer there, but I don't think it was because of my choice of clothing.

 

[Wrymouth3]

When I interviewed at Amazon a couple weeks ago they said to dress casually and everyone showed up (there were about 20 of us) in nice jeans and a polo shirt or dress shirt. The interviewers even said that all of us were perfectly dressed to actually work at Amazon. I didn't get an offer there, but I don't think it was because of my choice of clothing.

Any business whose hiring practices are dependent on what candidates wear is a bad business, or is a business located in a right-to-work state where they don't hire you and are allowed to give any reason why not. It wouldn't shock me if some HR people say no to a candidate because he/she wore a suit from Jos A Bank instead of Armani or whatever (They obviously won't tell the person they didn't hire the true reason why they weren't hired).

 

[Ajidica]

So I'm looking for a low level job in the statistical analysis/economics field and all the applications seem to require 1-2 years experience doing statistical analysis. I graduated with a BS in Econ, did an economics research project with a professor, and took classes on economic modeling and forecasting.
Any advice on how to highlight that in my resume to try and mitigate the lack of job experience doing statistical analysis?

 

[BvBPL]

Emphasize the elements of your work that are relevant to the job you are applying for.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Have section on your resume called "Work in Statistics". Under it you can list two or three challenges you faced in projects or class work and then talk about how you solved each of them. Not being a statistician, I'm challenged to post a specific example. Think about the kind of statistical work that company needs and select problems and approaches to the solutions that are similar to what the company needs done.

OK here is the best I can do:

Work in statistics
I had to use regression analysis to predict the response rate of customers for new products based on the buying data of 45,000 transactions.
To reach my conclusion, I had to use blah blah blah and blah blah blah in combination with a BLT on white toast. When my answers were compared to the actual results, I was within 2%.

This approach would replace a typical Responsibilities and Achievements section with previous employers section.

You want to show the reader that you understand how to apply statistics to real world issues that companies face. Treat this section as if it were real work. Don't be afraid to customize your resume for a specific job. As a freshly minted graduate, you will have lots of space on the page. Fill it with work related talk.

 

[Kennigit]

I would format your resume so that you pretend your economic research project comes across as previous employment

for whatever reason my current resume clicked extremely well with the companies I sent them off to even though I don't inherently consider it all that strong (at almost 2 year point past graduating) -- I am applying for different companies in highly technical areas and while I have gained a lot of skills at my job, I probably lost a lot of the very technical skills. Looking back I thought the content of my resume when I graduated reflected well a strong technical skillset but I now see a lot better than literally the format of the resume matters a lot. I just listed off stuff kind monotonously, and although I got a job upon graduation I didn't have many interviews or phone interviews and of course a low success rate in terms of applications sent to heard something back.

Key Areas (6-8 technical areas, this is a list of like subject area e.g. just list "Economic forecasting", "Macro/micro economic models", "<Whatever statistical thing, like Monte Carlo methods or something>").

Overview - speak about 5 sentences on education background skillset as a little more meat (whatever is appropriate for describing what you learned on economic modeling, applied statistics, whatever) and figure out a good lofty way to word career skillsets ("Technically oriented with a broad overview of statistical applications for economic and financial development, with experience conducting independent research and publishing work in <topical area>". If you didn't publish as an author on a paper directly say you did "independent research contributing to collaborative publication" or something. Total section can be like 10-12 lines

have a space and sentence with "I hold an interest in <three topic areas in your field, one can be whatever is for the position>"

Education - just the two lines of dates/years and degree earned, include GPA if good

Professional Experience and Projects - cover major projects you done in more detail (for employment this is where my job duties go, but I'd pretend your economics research project was a past employment. "Performed X, performed Y, required <methodology to produce results, rough structure of group you were in if in a group>)

Make your research skills sound really good and the methodology required for performing the project, then include some other project you did in your course of study in a short 2-3 sentences to make it look like you have multiple work experiences. If you had an internship or co-op then just include that but keep it really short

If you can get away with it say like "Research Analyst (2016 - 2016)" and describe the skills used so it sounds even more like a job with a title held and just make this section "Professional Experience"

But just whatever HR rep will look at your resume will equate in their mind that your research position was actually a "job". If it lasted >=3 months list <Title of Project (2016 - 2016)> so in their mind it may have been a 9-12 month long project. Obviously brownie points if it was like Dec 2015 - Feburary 2016 and you can put "2015 - 2016" so it looks like you have 1 year experience.

Professional Societies and Certifications - just a list, may literally be like 3 words. Taylored more just the engineer resumes with slap an EIT or PE or clearances for government work, but if you had professional societies involvement or particular skillset. Maybe "Honors and Activities" instead since I know you have activities that are professional sounding


to me, getting past that first filter is actually a crazy game but people learn how to play it. Then of course, it's actually up to you to be competent and actually earnest in the position you are applying for (e.g. in your career interests or something if you include that sentence, you know, be actually interested in the 3 things you list, though they may be reworded to specifically match words in the job posting).

 

[Atticus]

Do you appear (too) desperate if you mail after the interview to supplement what you've said?

 

[BvBPL]

A thank you card is always appropriate after an interview and can be used to supplement the interview within that context.

 

[Kennigit]

So, um is there good etiquette or a way to tell if a company can make an informal or formal offer right at the interview?

Way back when (2 years ago) when i interviewed for my position i told the interviewer i had to hear back within like 2 days because I had an internship offer I had to reply to. Little did I know my company actually had offers prepared prior so i actually talked with HR immediately after

Tomorrow I have an interview and I told another company I'd verify by close of business tomorrow my availability for an interview with them in 2 weeks

But I'd rather not appear unprofessional with company 2 as it is a cross country trip they'll fly me out for, etc and have them book it all with me just say a week later "sorry took other offer!

But if there's nothing i can do at least i tried

 

[Birdjaguar]

As an employer, I never know when someone is telling the truth or BSing me about trying get me to rush my deadline because some other company is hot for them. My usual response is to tell them to make the best decision they can about taking an offer or waiting for us, but we don't rush our due diligence because they are in a hurry.

Now, if you showed me a dated offer letter on company letterhead, I would take that into consideration.

 

[Kennigit]

Right but it's not rude to ask right?

Whatever their response doesnt really matter, if they say "we respond within 2 weeks" or laugh at me and say "lol dont worry you will get/not get an offer" or anything

Just as long as me asking doesnt HURT me

 

[Birdjaguar]

It is certainly OK to ask about how long will it take for a company to make their decision. If their response is fairly long, say two weeks or longer, then you could say that you are interviewing actively, but you preference is this company, so if I get another offer first, would you like me to let you know? Then accept their answer.

You want to build the conversation so your question feels natural and part of the flow of talk. You don't want to sound like an arrogant a$$.

 

[BvBPL]

So, um is there good etiquette or a way to tell if a company can make an informal or formal offer right at the interview?

Tomorrow I have an interview and I told another company I'd verify by close of business tomorrow my availability for an interview with them in 2 weeks

You should try and suss out how long an employer will take to hire you early in the process. Asking about the employer's hiring practices during your response at first contact is a good start. Knowing how many interviews and when they expect to make a decision is very helpful when negotiating with other prospective employers.

So I would try and figure out how long you can expect the whole thing to take during tomorrow's interview. That will inform how you proceed with the second company.

I wouldn't be shy about agreeing to interview with the second company even if tomorrow's interview seems to go well. For one thing, you probably wouldn't know how many other candidates or how really strong you were with the first company. Even a strong interview isn't an assurance they will give you an offer. So don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Secondly, if the second company is offering to fly you out, that tells you two things. One, they are very interested in you. And two, they have already budgeted for the expense to fly you out. In their sheets, that cost is just an normal expense of the hiring process. So don't feel bad about it, because they certainly don't feel bad about spending the money on you.

 

[Kennigit]

I'll see how things shake out definitely thanks! And for what it's worth the two positions really are equivalent to me-- they are nearly identical in function and content, and I flew out for this one too. The second position might be a bit more demanding in its connotation....I might feel under qualified actually.

the second one is definitely more high pressure though, if I do go. It would be a 4 person panel interview (I've never done that) for 90 minutes, this one tomorrow is more of a meet & greet with the hiring manager for "about an hour" and I had submitted some additional written responses to additional recruiter questions -- i.e. I assume this one in 12 hours or so would be comparatively casual and friendly.