Indian Unit Line Workshop

[Steph]

I humbly suggest that the Steph and Sandris partnership be formalized as Steph and Sandris Incorporated, or Steph & Sandris Inc. for short.

Won't be fair, Sandris does 90% of the job. He is Santa Claus, and I'm one of the little elves.

But you French consider working more than 35 hours a week inhuman….

That's not work, that's hobby .

And this 35 hours myth doesn't apply to a large part of the population anyway.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

That second quote was from Tak not me .

On the first quote, maybe so but Steph and Sandris Inc kind of sounds cool

 

[Takhisis]

Quote-theft! J'accuse!!!!

 

[Blue Monkey]

@ Blue Monkey, could they work for a Persian civ as well? Are the Vedic warriors the Aryan invaders?

Someone with more extensive knowledge of Persia would have to decide that. In the Vedas the word arya (white) is used to describe civilized people vs. barbarians (black). These are color symbolisms, not a reference to ethnicity. And the invasion theory is much more in doubt than it was in the 19th c. when German scholars planted the seed for what became the Aryan myth. But yes, they are a chariot-riding culture that came to India via the Iranian Plateau.

Excellent! I really like the long bow. Removing the necklaces would let the sacred thread be seen. It's much more essential to the units' character. With that, and recoloring the special unit's bow to look gold they'd be ready to render (imho) and I'd be ecstatic. For those who don't know the blue-skinned unit will be Rama, for one of the mythological civs in my epic Bharata Varsha scenario.

What about other Vedic units - spearman, swordsman, horseman etc. (cloth, color, weapon, hair etc.) ?

Also, could you please include workers/settlers in your pack?

your gonna make a halberd swinging pole-blade type Indian unit right?

It's hard for me to jump back & forth between eras. There is a lot of research to remember & a lot of images to sift through to find the needed details. Hopefully I can keep up with you. Do you want me to continue to post the 18th-19th c. unit recommendations or do I need to concentrate on the weapons & clothing for some other era?

I can certainly answer Sandris' request & make suggestions regarding the others' but not without knowing where to place my effort. Believe it or not, but a single one of those posts takes effort measured in tens of hours.

 

[Sandris]

If we develop every single unit like it`s a scientific research or university graduation work, we`ll have one unit pack per year.


Isn`t that longbow more appropriate ?

 

[Steph]

If we develop every single unit like it`s a scientific research or university graduation work, we`ll have one unit pack per year.

It's better to have one unit pack with 300 units than 10 unit packs with 3 units each.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Someone with more extensive knowledge of Persia would have to decide that. In the Vedas the word arya (white) is used to describe civilized people vs. barbarians (black). These are color symbolisms, not a reference to ethnicity. And the invasion theory is much more in doubt than it was in the 19th c. when German scholars planted the seed for what became the Aryan myth. But yes, they are a chariot-riding culture that came to India via the Iranian Plateau.

From what I can tell, the Vedic units would be more "Indianized" that the early Persians, who would tend to wear more traditional "steppe"-style clothing.

 

[Blue Monkey]

If we develop every single unit like it`s a scientific research or university graduation work, we`ll have one unit pack per year.

Reference images with descriptions/argumentation for completing Indian (India) unit line are needed. Historical accuracy is preferred.

It's better to have one unit pack with 300 units than 10 unit packs with 3 units each.

Is it a reasonable investment to strictly limit myself to a single hour to (1)select images that match the (2)descriptions for unit recommendations based on selection from (3) reviewing books I have on hand plus internet research from bookmarked sites and then (4) put together a historically accurate and rationally argued post supporting why that particular unit should be made to represent a period of several centuries covering an area comparable to the size of western Europe that prior to the mid 19th century never experienced a unifying hegemony similar to the Roman Empire? (5) all the time making sure to make choices so that follow a reasonable upgrade path. If I put that much meager effort into picking each unit then I'll have everything your asking for in about 300 hours. Assuming of course that I don't have to spend time guessing what units you need to fill out the lines and jump back & forth between eras where culture as well as military technology is radically different. And subtract about half an hour per unit for the time spent posting responses to your wips as well as comments by other contributors.



Of course, if that's too much to put up with I can always support your efforts with historically accurate responses like this:

Isn`t that longbow is more appropriate ?

Nope.

Oops! Forgot the carefully reasoned argument for the historical accuracy. Because I say so.

Yes to your earlier question. There should be distinctly Vedic units with a spear, a sword, a horse, wearing cloth, with hair and in color.

Hope that's helpful.



OTOH you could help me to help you. For some reason Osprey has not invested as much energy producing books on the whole of South Asian civilization as they have on 40 years of European history. So it does take a little more time & effort to give you what you want. I don't think getting an idea ahead of time about what you want, in what order, & how soon you need it is asking too much. It would certainly help me to post something much more quickly. for example, I could have posted the rest of the 18th-19th recommendations by Thursday AM if I hadn't stopped to look into the accuracy of the Vedic archer.

 

[Steph]

Don't take it wrong, your effort is appreciated. I did the same to try to find reference pictures for European civs. Or hours to find city list with evolutive names throughout history.
I think what Sandris wants to say it it's after all a game, and if there is a few accuracies it's not the end of the world.
Sandris is doing is best to make really accurate modelling, very close to the reference he gets. That's also why we avoid civ colours, to keep this accuracy.

But if you have difficulty to find some detailed references for one era/line, it's up to you to decide how much time it is worth committing.

 

[bigdog5994]

but Sandris is gonna make a pole blade unit right?

 

[MeteorPunch]

For what it's worth I, and many others I'm sure, have tons of appreciation for the research that goes into creating a unit, besides the actual creation that Sandris does. I'm sure it can be at times very difficult to get accurate information for some places like India.

On the other hand, this is a hobby and at Civ-scale much detail is lost anyway, so I believe generalizing and not stressing over minor details is good. So, super-accurate or not, I'm really looking forward to these.

 

[Blue Monkey]

The difficulty is not the finding. It's the selection. In terms of what is accurate, what is needed for the game, & what looks good in the game. Here's one example: a Vedic swordsman wouldn't use a gladius. Even though India traded with Rome, Rome won't exist for a thousand years more. He could have a pahari or a khanda (setting aside the tulwar, aruval, & kora as obvious coming later). Either of them will look different than a gladius at game scale. But the khanda is much more likely to have been used at an earlier period. So I can post "give him a khanda" or I can take the time to choose one of about a dozen pictures I have that show a khanda. Which one will best show the modeler the shape of the blade? Which one will give the animator some idea of how it's wielded? These aren't nit-picky details. They are the difference between a particularly useful unit that fits into an upgrade progression & just another generic swordsman. I have a lot of the research already done, but I'm not sitting here with everything organized in a way that let's me answer every reasonable question Sandris might ask with quiz show speeds. Being able to present things in some organized way serves not just the immediate need, but also gives him something to refer to later, as well as becoming a useful reference for those who want to use his creations in combination with others.

Enough digression. When I know what to work on I'll get back to work.

 

[T-mun]

Historical accuracy is good, I voted for it. Wait, this isn't a poll ? Well, what's the use of it then ? I think Sandris asked for it and if he doesn't want to go too far in that direction he'll stop when he wants, and Blue Monkey would probably be happy with these long-time needed units whatever the degree of perfection of them. Am I wrong ?
All the good work showed here is really appreciated, I as a fan of history have been learning a lot, like the bangalore story Thanks to you all for this.

 

[Sandris]

Blue Monkey, your help is highly appreciated. The only thing is that my methods of unitmaking are some kind of "massive". After I get reference for several packs (not single units), I make them all at once, pack by pack.

I have already began to work simultaneously on other civs` packs until we can gather reference for at least 2-3 complete Indian timelines (let`s say Vedic and 18th century), so there`s no hurry anymore.

The task remains the same - reference for Indian unit lines from Ancient to 20th century. Which of the time period will be covered first, it`s up to Blue Monkey.

 

[bigdog5994]

but are you gonna make a pole blade type unit? with Cam's Halberdier animation? and with a blade sort of like this right?

 

[Sandris]

but are you gonna make a pole blade type unit? with Cam's Halberdier animation? and with a blade sort of like this right?

What time period ? How should he look like ?

 

[Blue Monkey]

Blue Monkey, your help is highly appreciated. The only thing is that my methods of unitmaking are some kind of "massive". After I get reference for several packs (not single units), I make them all at once, pack by pack.

I have already began to work simultaneously on other civs` packs until we can gather reference for at least 2-3 complete Indian timelines (let`s say Vedic and 18th century), so there`s no hurry anymore.

The task remains the same - reference for Indian unit lines from Ancient to 20th century. Which of the time period will be covered first, it`s up to Blue Monkey.

That I can work with. Doing era by era is easiest for me as well since clothing armor is overlaps a lot & only weapons change from unit to unit. I'll finish up the 18th-Napoleonic tomorrow. Then Vedic. Then more eras.

but are you gonna make a pole blade type unit? with Cam's Halberdier animation? and with a blade sort of like this right?

That's a kora, which is very definitely a sword. There are a variety of Indian polearms with straight, curved, axe-like & spear-like blades. I'm sure they will be well represented by the time all eras are done.

 

[bigdog5994]

What time period ? How should he look like ?

just a middle age Indian warrior with a Halberd type weapon but without an axe head just a long sword like blade

maybe he can look like Uath's Harad swordsman but with a different hat
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=128499

 

[ShiroKobbure]

I think the Greek period should be cut out, the Vedic period be the Iron age, and the Harappa be the Bronze age.
1. Harappa (Before 1300 BC)
2. Vedic Era (1200–300 BC)
3. Maurya Empire (321-185 BC)
4. Kushan Empire (30 AD-375AD)
5. Gupta Empire (320-600sAD)
6. Pala Empire (750–1174)
7. Medieval Rajput states (1100s - 1500s)
8. Delhi Sultanate (1206–1527)
9. Great Moghuls (1526–1858)/Maratha Empire (1674–1820)
10.

Harappa (Before 1300 BC)
Here

 

[ShiroKobbure]

Maurya Empire (322 BC–185 BC) & Satavahana Empire 200 BC - 250AD)
Here