Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
And so do the rich blacks.
But what about the poor whites? Think their children are inculcated with the desire to achieve in schools?
Integration Ruined Schools
- Thread starter Leonel
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But what about the poor whites? Think their children are inculcated with the desire to achieve in schools?
Dunno about America but here it's mostly like that.
Many people feel that way. And that's what causes the problems. People deny others equal opportunities and discriminate against them. But the fact that some people want to discriminate does not give them the right to do so.
Neonanocyborgasm
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That's like saying that removing prayer from schools ruined them.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Poor black people just refuse to assimilate into the rich white neighborhoods, so it's their own fault.
It did for many of the same people who are now complaining about integration.
amadeus
Apply directly to the forehead
That feeling of wanting to be "around one's own kind" isn't exclusive to whites, though.
Holycannoli
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And so do the rich blacks.
But what about the poor whites? Think their children are inculcated with the desire to achieve in schools?
I use "rich white" because that's what's implied in the post I was replying to.
It comes down to families supporting their kids with their educations, and in poor communities support is often low. In poor urban communities it can be altogether non-existant with a complete absence of parents. Race doesn't matter.
Let's put it this way: Busing kids from Barringer High School in Newark NJ (one of the worst and most violent schools in NJ) to, say, West Essex High School in North Caldwell (in a fairly affluent area) will not give those kids a better education unless they're one of the few that want to learn, want to succeed and want to avoid gangs. In those cases I do believe in busing, but how do you determine who gets to go to a better school and who has to stay behind, without raising eyebrows or suspicions? Mind you there are assaults and police intervention at this school on a regular basis, so you have to make sure you aren't busing gang members.
http://njmonthly.com/articles/towns_and_schools/highschoolrankings/top-high-schools-2010.html - Barringer is ranked 311 out of 322, West Essex 36, just to give you an idea of the schools I'm talking about.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/12/barringer_high_school_senior_i.html
I know what some people think of when they think "integration = good and necessary", but there are times when integration will not work. The problem is much deeper than segregation or funding.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
I just wish rednecks felt more that way. They would be a lot easier to avoid here in Florida and elsewhere.
And I agree that affluent blacks no longer seem to want to live in "the bad part of town" as they used to have to do.
Mango Elephant
Deity
If the integrated bussing was done like it's supposed to be then Barringer High wouldn't be one of the worst high schools in NJ because even while the poor kids are shipped out, rich kids are sent in, so it'd be like any other school in it's district.
Bestbank Tiger
Deity
The racists in New Orleans practice the same revisionist history. (I'm sure Downtown heard that idiocy when he lived there).
Of course, if you ever look at pictures of the racists protesting against integration, the "superior" all-white schools didn't even teach them basic spelling and grammar.
Of course, if you ever look at pictures of the racists protesting against integration, the "superior" all-white schools didn't even teach them basic spelling and grammar.
aneeshm
Deity
'Integration' and 'black people' are not the same thing. It is quite possible that the former can be ruinous without any involvement by the latter. If this is, the fact that black people are involved in a particular 'ruination by integration' is nothing more than historical accident, as it could have been any other group.
(I don't know what the Senator meant, so I can't comment on his motives, but if he meant what I said, then it's perfectly all right in my book.)
aneeshm
Deity
But they still have to face the tragedy of regression to the mean. This is one of the saddest effects of the heritability of intelligence, actually. It would be really nice if it didn't have to happen.
Are you seriously implying that black people are less intelligent that white people? I don't see any other way to explain your comment.
aneeshm
Deity
The discussion is complex - why not continue it at the right place?
(To respond to your question, the answer is:
I an very very 'seriously' implying - no, saying - that if intelligence is to be measured using IQ, specifically g, there is a clear, present, and significant racial difference in the statistics. Reality, as it happens, doesn't give a rat's posterior to what I say, but as it happens, reality says the same thing too, if the tons and tons and tons of studies of this topic, and over seventy years of data are to be trusted. The means of the normal distribution differ, and differ significantly. Not being white or black, the debate is pretty academic for me, but interesting in its political, social, and academic implications nonetheless. Again, I suggest you take the discussion here if you want to continue it.)
Oh, and by the way, please drop the put-on incredulity. It's too reminiscent of the Church asking heretics if they were seriously implying that the Earth went round the sun, because they'd tried very, very hard, and they couldn't think of any other other explanation for them.
Bestbank Tiger
Deity
Well, IQ tests aren't as reliable as they're made out to be. Michael Oher had an 80 IQ according to the Memphis public schools...but after two years at Briarcrest Christian, the Tuohys had him retested and he scored in the 100-110 range. IQ is supposed to be independent of environment, and cases like that show otherwise.
Which makes sense...even if you're a genius you wouldn't do well on an IQ test in another language. And if you made a test tube baby with Stephen Hawking's sperm and Marilyn vos Savant's egg, and gave the baby to Cletus and Brandine, it wouldn't score genius on an IQ test.
Which makes sense...even if you're a genius you wouldn't do well on an IQ test in another language. And if you made a test tube baby with Stephen Hawking's sperm and Marilyn vos Savant's egg, and gave the baby to Cletus and Brandine, it wouldn't score genius on an IQ test.
When tested at the age of 14, I was found to have an IQ of 153, but my spatial awareness is near nil. Clearly, my intellectual capacity doesn't cover enormous areas of mental reasoning that most normal people's do. As my father asked, "What do IQ tests measure? IQ. What is IQ? What IQ tests measure."
Your example is faulty. IQ (or intelligence is general) is not constant during childhood - people grow at different rates, much like they grow at different rates in height. The score 100 is normalized to the average of that age. An IQ test taken during childhood is not going to be an accurate measure for one's IQ after full maturity. In addition, IQ is not fully independent of environment, (although the g-factor it is correlated as 80% heritable) as education can increase one's IQ, much in the same way that strength training increases your strength.
carmen510
Deity
Bad teachers and lack of student motivation ruined schools.
