Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Manfred Belheim]

Well, maybe. Universities are traditionally regarded as one of the bastions of civil society. The erosion of academic independence, the reduction of the education system to a factory producing technicians and technology, rather than a source of citizens and citizenship, can't be a good thing for any liberal society.

If Britain does start to fall behind the rest of Europe as an economic power, a desperate government might find itself casting around for any shred of respect it still has, and it may find itself reversing some of the damaging reforms in higher education as a result.

To be honest, I don't think it's a very realistic proposition- the current regime is pretty committed to turning the entire country into one giant Poundland, and they're not going to let something as petty as total economic disintegration stand in their way- but it's not quite as silly as you're implying.

Well perhaps I interpreted "third world country" too literally. I was envisioning the vast majority of the country living in mud huts and trying to grow subsistence crops, whilst Oxford and Cambridge somehow carry on as normal. Presumably behind vast electric fences or something.

 

[Traitorfish]

That, unfortunately, is the more likely outcome: Oxford and Cambridge are the spawning-grounds of the elite, so even if the rest of the country is reduced to roasting feral dogs to survive, you can guarantee they'll keep ticking over as if it was still 1840.

The funny thing about the liberal education is, it's still good enough for the upper class. Cameron studied political philosophy at Oxford, and his prospective successor, Theresa May, studied geography. Other leading Conservatives have similar backgrounds: Classics for Johnson, History for Osborne, English for Gove, and Oxbridge the lot of them. The sort of educational choices which are deemed grossly irresponsible for a working class kid attending a plate glass or even, increasingly, a middle class kid attending a red brick, are perfectly acceptable for our betters.

 

[aelf]

Well, maybe. Universities are traditionally regarded as one of the bastions of civil society. The erosion of academic independence, the reduction of the education system to a factory producing technicians and technology, rather than a source of citizens and citizenship, can't be a good thing for any liberal society.

If Britain does start to fall behind the rest of Europe as an economic power, a desperate government might find itself casting around for any shred of respect it still has, and it may find itself reversing some of the damaging reforms in higher education as a result.

To be honest, I don't think it's a very realistic proposition- the current regime is pretty committed to turning the entire country into one giant Poundland, and they're not going to let something as petty as total economic disintegration stand in their way- but it's not quite as silly as you're implying.

I was more thinking that, with places for EU students freed up and British society more reliant on skilled, non-EU immigration in general, there'd correspondingly be admission policies that would be more favourable towards non-EU foreign students. Of course, generally lower costs of living would help a great deal too.

Well perhaps I interpreted "third world country" too literally.

That quote is from Little Britain. Originally used to refer to Spain as a favourite British holiday destination.

 

[Arakhor]

It's actually worse than I thought. According to this infographic I found on the BBC, over half the Prime Ministers for the last hundred years have been appointed without recourse to a general election.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Becoming PM requires the Queen's assent and she's not in London right now.

I just hope that Edward lives in Maidenhead, otherwise he won't have voted for the new PM either.

I live in Norwich and I am supposed to be represented by Clive Lewis.

Where do you live?

 

[EnglishEdward]

That, unfortunately, is the more likely outcome: Oxford and Cambridge are the spawning-grounds of the elite, so even if the rest of the country is reduced to roasting feral dogs to survive, you can guarantee they'll keep ticking over as if it was still 1840.

The UK student loan grant bubble will not last. It merely encourages over production
of graduates for subjects for which there are far more degrees than vacancies.

IIRC UK university terms were originally set to enable students to plant
grain over Easter and harvest it in the summer break.

I am looking forward to Oxbridge and other students returning to the fields in
Cambridgeshire and Lincolnshire etc. to harvest broccoli and cauliflowers.

It would probably better prepare them for life in the world to come.

 

[Arakhor]

Where do you live?

In Gloucestershire. The way the Cotswolds has gone for the last ten years, I am likely to never directly elect a Prime Minister.

 

[Traitorfish]

The UK student loan grant bubble will not last. It merely encourages over production
of graduates for subjects for which there are far more degrees than vacancies.

And yet many jobs
Require a higher degree
Can students be blamed?

With so few options
People must do what they can
Hope is scarce enough

To punish the young
For the failures of leaders
Cannot be justice

 

[Cheetah]

It's actually worse than I thought. According to this infographic I found on the BBC, over half the Prime Ministers for the last hundred years have been appointed without recourse to a general election.

You vote for parties, not prime ministers, though.

Of all the political problems in the UK - foremost FPTP elections - the fact that you don't have a new election every time a prime minister changes seems like a very minor thing to be concerned about.


But more on topic: What is the likelihood of May waiting until after the German and French elections to activate Article 50? Personally, I expect her to activate it sometime in September-November this year, cause there really is a limit to how long the world can go with this uncertainty.

 

[Lohrenswald]

From what I understand, Lohrenswald called the British youth "right-wing" because they mostly voted Remain, which is a fairly idiosyncratic concept of "right-wing".

I suppose, but seeing how EU is inherently right wing, I don't think it's that flawed to call support of it right wing.

And I have seen other signs of a right turning trend among the youth. Mostly by how many of them vote right wing

ps if anyone wants me to answer something from last time I was in this thread that I left out hanging just let me know

 

[Arakhor]

You vote for parties, not prime ministers, though.

Of all the political problems in the UK - foremost FPTP elections - the fact that you don't have a new election every time a prime minister changes seems like a very minor thing to be concerned about.

Oh, I agree, but given that the last effort to shift FPTP failed, I don't see the Government changing it any time soon. It's also deeply ironic that for all the claims of greater democratic accountability that Brexit will bring, the Fixed Terms Act will lead to even more of these shenanigans in future.

But more on topic: What is the likelihood of May waiting until after the German and French elections to activate Article 50? Personally, I expect her to activate it sometime in September-November this year, cause there really is a limit to how long the world can go with this uncertainty.

Apparently she wants to give proper breathing room before initiating procedures, but it's still up in the air whether Article 50 is within the PM's privilege powers or not.

 

[Kyriakos]

Ehm, Theresa May's (next unelected PM of Britain)'s husband is a banker?

.

 

[Arakhor]

What's your point?

 

[Kyriakos]

^Is he active as a banker?

Cause the conflict of interest would be somewhat bad? May is to trigger article 50, and gambling traders will make a stash with the right info.

 

[EnglishEdward]

And yet many jobs
Require a higher degree
Can students be blamed?

With so few options
People must do what they can
Hope is scarce enough

To punish the young
For the failures of leaders
Cannot be justice

Very true. I don't blame the students. Agree leadership failure on policy.

If not studying for jobs requiring higher degree, some students might be
better advised to get a job as an apprentice electrician/plumber if they can.

 

[Arakhor]

Cause the conflict of interest would be somewhat bad? May is to trigger article 50, and gambling traders will make a stash with the right info.

I couldn't possibly comment on his employment status, but I would hope that such an obvious conflict of interest would be publicly declared if such occurred.

 

[Kyriakos]

I couldn't possibly comment on his employment status, but I would hope that such an obvious conflict of interest would be publicly declared if such occurred.

Or you can take their word for it. Even if they wanted to they cannot rig things to make even more profit for themselves, amirite

 

[Takhisis]

Like a haiku
Traitorfish in three lines
writes a lot

Becoming PM requires the Queen's assent and she's not in London right now.

That must be why Groovy Dave said earlier today that it was hopefully ‘by Wednesday’.
Or maybe that has to do with his having to get a place to store his stuff.

I couldn't possibly comment on his employment status, but I would hope that such an obvious conflict of interest would be publicly declared if such occurred.

Perish the thought!

 

[Takhisis]

On top of everything else, Ms. Eagle faces her own no confidence vote within her constituency.

New Labour politicians saying they stand by Blair's private little war, frankly, are disgusting.

 

[uppi]

But more on topic: What is the likelihood of May waiting until after the German and French elections to activate Article 50? Personally, I expect her to activate it sometime in September-November this year, cause there really is a limit to how long the world can go with this uncertainty.

The German federal election is more than a year away. I would consider it a very bad idea to wait that long, because the uncertainty until then is not going to foster investment in the UK economy.

I also doubt there would be much to gain from that. The next German government might even be less favorable from the viewpoint of UK negotiators.