Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[Arakhor]

Although the USA has elected a black President and London a Muslim Mayor, I am unsure that the people of the UK are ready for a childless? lesbian as PM.

Do you mean that you aren't ready? Her sexuality should have little to relevance on her tenure.

 

[Lohrenswald]

Being Pro-European doesn't necessarily place you anywhere on the Left-Right spectrum.

I don't know what this "pro-european" is but being pro-EU is being right wing

 

[AdrienIer]

The EU is representative of Europeans, unlike what brexiters say. The PPP has been in control of the parliement from its beginnings so it follows that the European policies have been right wing

 

[Arakhor]

I don't know what this "pro-european" is but being pro-EU is being right wing

Maybe in Norway, but not from where I'm sitting.

 

[Lohrenswald]

The EU is representative of Europeans, unlike what brexiters say.

How

The PPP has been in control of the parliement from its beginnings so it follows that the European policies have been right wing

the EU is founded to be right wing

Maybe in Norway, but not from where I'm sitting.

what do you mean

The Brexit campaign was kinda weird in that both the leave and remain side were lead by right-wingers

 

[EnglishEdward]

Do you mean that you aren't ready? Her sexuality should have little to relevance on her tenure.

No, that is not what I meant.

I am not sure why you wish to so re-interpret my comment about
Angela Eagle's electability in terms of my possible personal preferences.

Whether the general UK public takes her sexuality into account in voting
does not necessarily follow anybody's principles of political correctness.

People often like to identify with the person they vote for, and they often
find that harder to do, if that person is very different from themselves.

Takes something extra special to overcome that as in the expression
that the black person must be better than, rather than just as good as, the
white guy, and only a few e.g. Colin Powell and Barack Obama manage that.

 

[AdrienIer]

the EU is founded to be right wing

No. Most french people who worked hard for its creation and expansion (not in number of countries, in strength) were centrists or leftists.

It's Europeans are right wing -> Parliament and heads of state are right wing -> European commission is right wing -> the EU is right wing. Not the other way around

 

[Lohrenswald]

No. Most french people who worked hard for its creation and expansion (not in number of countries, in strength) were centrists or leftists.

It's Europeans are right wing -> Parliament and heads of state are right wing -> European commission is right wing -> the EU is right wing. Not the other way around

Well the people who founded it, and who are proponents for the ideas the EU stand for, are right wing

the people elected to it are also mostly right wing, but that's another issue

 

[Takhisis]

I thought it was her twin sister that was gay? Not that it matters anyway.

Nah, the sister usually introduces herself to people as ‘the straight one’.

Siemens is one of the skeeviest companies this country has. They're probably looking forward to third world levels of corruption and sweat shops close to Europe.

They're famed for paying bribes across South America, if it helps.

The Brexit campaign was kinda weird in that both the leave and remain side were lead by right-wingers

We've already said a few dozen times that the EU referendum was a Conservative Party internal leadership contest.

 

[Arakhor]

People often like to identify with the person they vote for, and they often find that harder to do, if that person is very different from themselves.

Well, either there's an awful lot of "David Cameron-esque" people in the UK or people don't vote Tory simply because they identify with the prospective Prime Minister. Why would people not vote Labour simply because Angela Eagle herself is gay?

 

[Cheetah]

I don't know what this "pro-european" is but being pro-EU is being right wing

How long are you going to keep this up??

There are several arguments in favour or against the EU, but there is not, nor has there ever been, a strong left-right divide on the matter.

I don't think actual facts matter to you, but I hope I'm wrong. I went to the Norwegian Wikipedia and got these links about the Norwegian EU elections, so you can read about who were for or against it:

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkeavstemningen_om_Norges_tilslutning_til_EU_1994#Ja-siden

• Høyre (conservatives) were in favour.
• But so were the leadership of AP (Labour), and all their ministers (they held the government at the time). The rest of the party was divided.
• Fremskrittsparties (libertarians) was also divided.
• NHO (the "business lobby") was mostly in favour.
• Most of the media were in favour.
• Venstre (liberals) and KrF (Christian Democrats) were mostly against.
• SP (agrarian centrists), SV (socialist left) and RV (communists) were against.
• LO was the only union which had an opinion, and though it chose to be against, the leader (Yngve Hågensen) was pro-EU.
  
  The final result of the referendum was 52.2% No vs 47.8% Yes, with an 89% turn-out.

https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folkeavstemningen_om_Norges_tilslutning_til_EF_1972#Ja-siden

• Høyre (conservatives) was the only party which was clear in its support of the EU.
• Though AP (Labour) had a clear majority in favour of EU as well, the party did not have a policy on it.
• Ventre (liberals) and KrF (socialdemocrats) were mostly against, but both had significant pro-EU minorities.
• Most of the media supported EU.
• LO - the largest and most influential union - supported the EU.
• The employers' organisatios (later named NHO) supported the EU.
• SP was the only party in parliament clearly against EU.
• SF and the communists were against as well, but had no presence in parliament.
  
  The final result of the referendum was 53.5% No vs 46.5% Yes, with a 79% turn-out.

What divide there is, is mostly between the primary sectors (agriculture and fisheries) and those who have an interest in them, and everyone else.

And if you're gonna claim that Labour, LO and Yngve Hågensen are all right-wingers, you're either trolling or living in some fantasy world with no connection to logic or reason.

 

[Ajidica]

No. Most french people who worked hard for its creation and expansion (not in number of countries, in strength) were centrists or leftists.

Out of curiosity, where does de Gaulle and Gaullism sit in French politics, left or right?
I was under the impression that de Gaulle and the Gaullists were drivers of increase Franco-German cooperation (such as the Elysee Treaty) which was the starting point for the EU.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Siemens has a reputation for securing big government contracts in third world countries through efficient german bribes.

Fixed !
Well thats the Germans for you, they were just better at bribing then other Major American companies and how very German that the person responsible did not enrich himself via greed but not benefit from it directly.
The VW scandal on the other hand, shameful display

Three decades after Congress passed a law barring American companies from paying bribes to secure foreign business, law enforcement authorities around the world are bearing down on major enterprises like Daimler and Johnson & Johnson, with scores of cases now under investigation. Both companies declined comment, citing continuing investigations.

Albert J. Stanley, a legendary figure in the oil patch and the former chief executive of the KBR subsidiary of Halliburton, recently pleaded guilty to charges of paying bribes and skimming millions for himself. More charges are coming in that case, officials say.

But the Siemens case is notable for its breadth, the sums of money involved, and the raw organizational zeal with which the company deployed bribes to secure contracts

Mr. Siekaczek isn’t a stereotype of a white-collar villain. There are no Ferraris in his driveway, or villas in Monaco. He dresses in jeans, loafers and leather jackets.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/worldbusiness/21siemens.html

 

[FriendlyFire]

lol ?
Can someone please explain how this EU VETO works ? I think it would be hilarious if someone any one of the EU countries went and vetoed Brexit though I doubt this would happen unless something disastrous would happen given the Size and importance of the UK. Just goes to show how the EU law making actually works and the power held by individual countries.

In his Guardian article, Schulz underlined this point by warning that MEPs could veto the final Brexit agreement, meaning the UK could be forced out of the EU with only its World Trade Organisation membership to fall back on. A weighted majority of EU governments will also need to approve the Brexit deal.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ay-brexit-talks-eu-after-summer-martin-schulz

 

[Takhisis]

I don't know the specifics, but major changes to EU structures, treaties, etc. have to be approved by each and every member state. For example, the admission of a new member of the union (Scotland was threatened with not being admitted in 2014 by Spain, who don't want to give the Catalans and Basques any hope).

 

[ori]

The Brexit cannot be vetoed - Article 50 is triggered by the UK doing so and no one can do anything about it - it merely means that 2 years after formally declaring they want out, they re out*

*unless a unanimous decision by the EU including the UK extends that time frame.

What Schulz is going on about is that during that 2 year period the EU and the leaving member are supposed to agree on a treaty governing the manner of leaving and the relations after the exit - that treaty would very likely fall under regulations that require ratification by all member states as well as the EU institutions. Schulz is merely talking up the prospect of the parliament not consenting to a treaty they do not like. If that happens, the UK is still out after 2 years just without a treaty governing UK-EU relations.

Edit: actually the exit treaty is subject to a qualified majority of remaining EU states (55% of member states, representing 65% of the population) plus EU parliament consent.

 

[Tahuti]

Out of curiosity, where does de Gaulle and Gaullism sit in French politics, left or right?
I was under the impression that de Gaulle and the Gaullists were drivers of increase Franco-German cooperation (such as the Elysee Treaty) which was the starting point for the EU.

The early Gaullists saw themselves as centrist and Eurosceptic. During the 1968 riots, Gaullists - who were in charge of the French government at the time - were considered Right-Wing, contradistinguished from the New Left protestors.

The shift from Euroscepticism towards support of the EU among Gaullist happened somewhere in the 1970s-1980s.

The Brexit cannot be vetoed - Article 50 is triggered by the UK doing so and no one can do anything about it - it merely means that 2 years after formally declaring they want out, they re out*

Britain hasn't triggered article 50 yet. Brexit was a referendum - of which it wasn't clear whether it was binding or not - and only the PM can trigger article 50. This has yet to happen.

 

[ori]

Britain hasn't triggered article 50 yet. Brexit was a referendum - of which it wasn't clear whether it was binding or not - and only the PM can trigger article 50. This has yet to happen.

Yes, I know - that is why I stated that its 2 years after formally declaring - that is yet to happen and the UK government would be crazy to do so prior to an agreement being reached as the two years is hard once Article 50 is triggered so the EU will gain a lot of leverage by pointing to the fact that they can just sit the whole thing out if the UK is not accepting their demands.

 

[Agent327]

No offense, but the UK has no "demands" to make. Nor does the EU, for that matter. One should aim for leniency, and it would appear that might be in the offing, as it is in the interest of both parties.

 

[AdrienIer]

Out of curiosity, where does de Gaulle and Gaullism sit in French politics, left or right?
I was under the impression that de Gaulle and the Gaullists were drivers of increase Franco-German cooperation (such as the Elysee Treaty) which was the starting point for the EU.

De Gaulle is center right. De Gaulle was in favor of a "Europe of nations" not of something EU like. Gaullists have been in favor of an EU like entity for decades though, because De Gaulle's position was driven by his nationalism (one of his biggest trait) and most people who came after him were less nationalist, so even though they invoke his spirit on many issues they can't follow him on this one