Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[EnglishEdward]

If prolonging the Union is something you favour, you could probably do better than characterising Scotland's elected representatives as saboteurs.

If anything, the surest way to neutralise the SNP's image as a rebel contingent at the gates of power is to treat them as a colourful but basically mundane party of centre-left regionalists, which is, outside of the specific context of independence debates, exactly what they are.

Why did the SNP make it clear that their representatives in the House of Commons
would vote against any attempt to bring the law on hunting in England and Wales
into line with the law that the Scottish Parliament had passed for Scotland?

By any logical stance, they ought to be pleased that England might copy them.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Right now? Low. Nothing about the current UK predicament makes anyone much inclined to follow.

I agree, they will first watch the UK take the leading (bleeding?) edge of Brexit.

 

[innonimatu]

I'm at the moment reading an article of the increased racism in UK after the referendum. Here's an international link of one case, and this is for Tak.

Funny how those pieces started popping up now. A cynical person might think someone in a news agency decided that the time was right to push them onto the international press...

Those 10 seats more came from Ciudadanos, the other center-right new party which went down. So the landscape continues the same with no a clear way to pact a path to form government.

If anything it seems new parties are going down and old ones remain. Probably it can be explained on the low participation. Young people get bored and spent the whole day at the beach while oldies remained at home watching the Eurocup and went vote in the half-time, and of course voted for who they always vote for.

That's my guess too. Funny how the weather can impact on the outcome of an election. It also shows which parties have deeper support. But ultimately if people don't even bother to get out and vote the responsibility rests on those carrying out the campaign.
Podemos failed in one big way during the campaign: they angled for the government but didn't state a government programme with real impact. The worry with keeping options open for deal-making can turn into the undoing of these new parties: voters who cast protest votes want a break, not just someone new joining the club. Iglesias could have done that by changing the focus from the regional demands of independence to a demand for a new european settlement. But he's too much like Tsipras... now he's going to either swallow his ego and make a deal for a junior position in a PSOE government, or lose control of the party. I'd rather see the later option, it would be better for Spain. But between those two I'd bet on the former as more likely to be attempted. And it may fail, for it would no longer be enough for a stable majority.

 

[sherbz]

Precisely which mistake are you talking about?

The mistake of leaving!

£4,000 got wiped off my shares. If i now have to deal with tax rises then blood will boil.

 

[Ironsided]

 

[innonimatu]

The mistake of leaving!

£4,000 got wiped off my shares. If i now have to deal with tax rises then blood will boil.

Isn't that your mistake, for holding those shares knowing fully well the risk? Nothing prevented you from moving your assets elsewhere if it mattered so much to you. "Old people" (apparently the scapegoat of Remain's frustrations) are not obligated to vote with the sole aim of increasing the value of your assets.

 

[Kyriakos]

This topic is depressing me. :/

Good luck to the british posters. Will be signing off atm..

 

[Akka]

I agree those in the In campaign told a lot of Lies.

That's some high grade-school quality level of counter here.
Seriously ? Can't you do a little better than that as someone who's supposed to be old enough to have seen the first referendum ?

 

[Old Hippy]

the UK just has to send all the leave political leaders to Brussels to negotiate an exit deal and new treaties then have a referendum on whether they should accept it, if Boris and CO are up to their usual standards London's and Scotland's concerns are put off for a generation or two

 

[Ironsided]

The mistake of leaving!

£4,000 got wiped off my shares..

I know a single mom in Collyhurst struggling to put Chicken McNuggets on the table who cares a lot!

This is the great irony of the "free" market.

 

[sherbz]

Isn't that your mistake, for holding those shares knowing fully well the risk? Nothing prevented you from moving your assets elsewhere if it mattered so much to you. "Old people" (apparently the scapegoat of Remain's frustrations) are not obligated to vote with the sole aim of increasing the value of your assets.

Actually no - as those shares were held in the company i work for, so therefore qualify as savings IMO. The leavers are just self interested fools if you ask me. And they will get nothing they hoped for. Thank you democracy!

 

[Bootstoots]

And now I made even more money, by which I mean like $8, by betting against Iglesias as the next Spanish PM! I have no idea why the odds of that were said to be something like 45% given that it's unlikely Podemos would have found anyone else to be in a coalition with them even if they did considerably better than they actually did today.

 

[Arwon]

Although I have selected Arwon's text as above, my comment applies to
all those who say the UK referendum on the EU should not have been held.

Voting is democracy in case you lot did not know that.

David Cameron (Conservative) promised a referendum in the 2015 election,
and in my opinion that gave them the edge over David Miliband (Labour)
who did not promise a referendum, so he was duty bound to hold it.

Refusing to hold the promised referendum would be both a repudiation
of the legitimacy of the 2015 conservative victory, and tyranny.

It is irresponsible to advocate against democratic voting.

For all his faults, there were three referendums while David Cameron was our
Prime Minister, and I must give him credit for that democratic measure.

My point was specific to the UK government's responsibilities in Northern Ireland. It's a party to a delicate peace treaty that relies on the EU to resolve the essential identity crisis of the conflict by rendering British and Irish identities and links as a non zero sum thing. That's all massively at risk now.

The UK is a post-conflict state. It is a signatory to agreements trying to keep it that way. For the UK government to so casually risk the Good Friday Agreement like this was very irresponsible. Disarmament was completed less than a decade ago!

I get that English nationalists *don't care* about Ireland but I just think maintaining peace and avoiding renewed conflict are way more important than holding a referendum that ultimately amounts to complaining about taxes. And really the fact that there are more English people than Northern Irish people doesn't necessarily make English grievances more important when in Northern Ireland the issues at stake can tend to kill people.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The mistake of leaving!

£4,000 got wiped off my shares. If i now have to deal with tax rises then blood will boil.

More than likely, your investment will rebound in the future so unless you are about ready to retire or planned to use that money in the next 90-180 days, you will be fine. Part of owning stocks is riding the values up and down. If a bouncy ride is unacceptable to you, then go with another form of investment.

 

[Takhisis]

I'm at the moment reading an article of the increased racism in UK after the referendum. Here's an international link of one case, and this is for Tak.

It reminds me of the 2011 parliamentary elections here, when the nationalistic "True Finns" got promoted to the big league. It was plainly visible that people took it as a license to be racist jerks. They began shouting on black people on the streets etc.

Another related thing is what the populist politicians will use as their means when they can't blame EU for everything. Will the foreigners in the UK become the bad thing. Or perhaps the wrong coloured Brits? Of course they will find something to blame, a different thing is how deep they have to go.

The problem, basically, is that people stopped acting racist, but they didn't stop being so.

It's a bit of a contradiction in terms to tell people not to tell foreigners/gypsies/Jews/blacks (i.e. those known globally as ‘not us’) while simultaneously telling everyone your country (‘us’) is the best and greatest on earth, superior culture, diplomacy, better customs and manners, glorious history, etc.

Let alone, of course, that in one of the articles by Fintan O'Toole I posted above you can get a debunking of the myth about England standing it alone since Alfred.

And now you've given me homework, you, you… arrgh.

Funny how those pieces started popping up now. A cynical person might think someone in a news agency decided that the time was right to push them onto the international press...

You should be put in a place for paranoid delusional people. Preferably in the cell next to mine so that we can talk.

the UK just has to send all the leave political leaders to Brussels to negotiate an exit deal and new treaties then have a referendum on whether they should accept it, if Boris and CO are up to their usual standards London's and Scotland's concerns are put off for a generation or two

My point was specific to the UK government's responsibilities in Northern Ireland. It's a party to a delicate peace treaty that relies on the EU to resolve the essential identity crisis of the conflict by rendering British and Irish identities and links as a non zero sum thing. That's all massively at risk now.

The UK is a post-conflict state. It is a signatory to agreements trying to keep it that way. For the UK government to so casually risk the Good Friday Agreement like this was very irresponsible. Disarmament was completed less than a decade ago!

I get that English nationalists *don't care* about Ireland but I just think maintaining peace and avoiding renewed conflict are way more important than holding a referendum that ultimately amounts to complaining about taxes.

There are still people in England who don't understand why the Irish complained about their rule, yet will happily vote aginst evul Yurop.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I am totally despondent about all of this, it really really sucks. And i blame old people. They had the welfare state, they had the NHS, they had cheap council houses, which were then later bought by them. The younger generation has none of this. All tax rises should fall on their heads and not mine. They should lose their comforts in social security to pay for this mistake, it is the only way.

Well that's a really nice and balanced viewpoint you have. Jesus.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Funny how those pieces started popping up now. A cynical person might think someone in a news agency decided that the time was right to push them onto the international press...



That's my guess too. Funny how the weather can impact on the outcome of an election. It also shows which parties have deeper support. But ultimately if people don't even bother to get out and vote the responsibility rests on those carrying out the campaign.
Podemos failed in one big way during the campaign: they angled for the government but didn't state a government programme with real impact. The worry with keeping options open for deal-making can turn into the undoing of these new parties: voters who cast protest votes want a break, not just someone new joining the club. Iglesias could have done that by changing the focus from the regional demands of independence to a demand for a new european settlement. But he's too much like Tsipras... now he's going to either swallow his ego and make a deal for a junior position in a PSOE government, or lose control of the party. I'd rather see the later option, it would be better for Spain. But between those two I'd bet on the former as more likely to be attempted. And it may fail, for it would no longer be enough for a stable majority.

Final results:

PSOE lost some seats but finally keeps the second place ahead of Podemos that remains about the same. OTOH things look much better now for the PP. It won the night finally (kind of). It could even form a government with some juggling. Maybe brexit favoured PP. A Podemos victory plus brexit all in the same week had been way too much.

 

[Arwon]

The UK is a recent post-conflict state. Good Friday is 2 years more recent than the Dayton Accords. It's amazing how readily we forget that.

How would we view Bosnia holding a divisive referendum on existential constitutional questions sure to imperil that settlement, so soon after peace was achieved?

 

[Dachs]

The UK is a recent post-conflict state. Good Friday is 2 years more recent than the Dayton Accords. It's amazing how readily we forget that.

How would we view Bosnia holding a divisive referendum on existential constitutional questions sure to imperil that settlement, so soon after peace was achieved?

The English pretend that Northern Ireland is still a colony (except when it isn't) which makes the Troubles a terrorist campaign and not, y'know, a civil war, and certainly not anybody's fault except for 'the Irish', whoever they are.

 

[Zkribbler]

More than likely, your investment will rebound in the future so unless you are about ready to retire or planned to use that money in the next 90-180 days, you will be fine.

I've heard from a couple of sources that the Brexit vote was advisory only, and that Parliament still must vote on the matter.

True, it might be political suicide to spit in the eye of the majority, but being that Cameron is already falling on his sword, suicide doesn't sound all that disagreeable.