Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[AdrienIer]

What's wrong with that? Franco and Pinochet were decent rulers. At least, they did not try to implement economy solutions like "Let's nationalize property of bad capitalists!" or "Let's print a lot of monies and make everyone rich!" And Franco, we should not forget, restored monarchy, so he is obviously good guy.

Chavez, as well as his successor, was ridiculous.

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not. If not, you're basically saying that Franco and Pinochet are decent (which is a ridiculous claim anyway) because they're not left wing.

 

[Ajidica]

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not. If not, you're basically saying that Franco and Pinochet are decent (which is a ridiculous claim anyway) because they're not left wing.

He is a monarchist so his definitions of what comprises good (or even acceptable) leadership exists in a completely different universe to those who view the world from a liberal democratic viewpoint.


On a different note, I am loving how the Vote Leave campaign keeps trying to postpone actually invoking Article 50, almost like they didn't expect to win and viewed the whole thing as a political stunt.

 

[Takhisis]

I don't know what that is.

So you're posting about British politics without understanding one of the essentials of British culture?

Some things are said to be life-and-death issues. Football is much more important than that.

My understanding is that the youth turnout was way lower than the rest.

If it was around 70 percent then it's in line with the rest of the population's turnout.

From what I understand, Lohrenswald called the British youth "right-wing" because they mostly voted Remain, which is a fairly idiosyncratic concept of "right-wing".

Has there been much discussion in England about how threatening this is to peace in Northern Ireland, or how the brexiters intend to mantain and uphold the Good Friday Agreement?

It honestly seems pretty irresponsible for a government obligated by treaties it has signed to uphold peace through that Agreement, to even be holding a vote that so directly threatens it with the creation of borders and the breakdown of binational and cross-border institutions.

An Irishman has, if it helps.
Of course, he had already decried English nationalism taking the whole island to task while conflating ‘Englishness’ with ‘Britishness’. The best quote:

The Brexiters imagine an earthquake that will, curiously, leave the domestic landscape unaltered
​

We might see something similar in the USA later this year. "Yes, I voted for him but I was just angry at Hillary. I didn't think Trump could win."

I remember a similar thing happened in Argentina in 2011. ‘I didn't want the Kirchners to win the presidency but I voted for them… why did they win!?’. Quite widespread.

^Agreed.

Let alone that Scottish parliament blocking UK leaving the EU after UK votes to leave, would be analogous to UK parliament blocking Scotland leaving UK.

It is irresponsible, at best. She should just prepare for a future Scotxit from the KU.

Obviously she's just putting herself in a better bargaining position for the upcoming secession/further devolution. ‘Give us what we want or we'll make life impossible for you’.

On a different note, I am loving how the Vote Leave campaign keeps trying to postpone actually invoking Article 50, almost like they didn't expect to win and viewed the whole thing as a political stunt.

We said that somewhere around post #1700. This was a Tory leadership contest. Didn't you watch Boris Johnson's priceless acceptance speech? He sort of promised to go forward. And not much, as he didn't and doesn't have a plan.

 

[Akka]

On a different note, I am loving how the Vote Leave campaign keeps trying to postpone actually invoking Article 50, almost like they didn't expect to win and viewed the whole thing as a political stunt.

And of course, somehow it will be "proof" that it's the EU which is not democratic. Just like it's the EU which is pro-finance when it's the UK which veto Tobin tax. Business as usual.

 

[Snorrius]

I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not. If not, you're basically saying that Franco and Pinochet are decent (which is a ridiculous claim anyway) because they're not left wing.

I am not saying that they are decent just because they are not left-wing, though it is surely give them some credibility points -- just as we give some credibility points to a child psychologist who is not a pedophile -- though being a pedophile does not necessary means that one can not become a good child psychologist.

Franco's and Pinochet's economy policies were decent and reality-based. Unlike, say, Chavez, or Maduro's. The biggest problem with the latter ones is that they tried to implement non-workable economic policies which were tried before and did not work.

As for restoring monarchy, I think it gives Franco some respect points as he wisely chose the most effective European form of government. This we can easily check using Human Development Index. It shows us that monarchies on average are doing better than republics.

 

[Takhisis]

So just fish some Romanovs out of the US or wherever they've gone to and have Vladimir Vladimirovich become Prime Minister for life under them.

 

[Snorrius]

So just fish some Romanovs out of the US or wherever they've gone to and have Vladimir Vladimirovich become Prime Minister for life under them.

A good idea! Will follow ASAP .

Here is the guy

 

[Birdjaguar]

A good idea! Will follow ASAP .

Here is the guy

An American born, England raised Romanov would probably be an improvement over Putin. I can't say I care much for his art though. Van Gogh without the crazy creativity.

 

[red_elk]

An American born, England raised Romanov would probably

... have about 0.01% approval rating in Russia.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

A good idea! Will follow ASAP .

Here is the guy

Another crappy painter leading a big country? No thanks.

 

[luiz]

Thorgalaeg, give us some on the ground insight. Will Spain finally get a government tonight? And if people just vote the same as they did last time, which seems likely, for how long will this situation be allowed to go on? What is the alternative? Minority government is a no-go?

 

[Traitorfish]

As for restoring monarchy, I think it gives Franco some respect points as he wisely chose the most effective European form of government. This we can easily check using Human Development Index. It shows us that monarchies on average are doing better than republics.

Or it shows us that prosperous, stable countries don't experience the sort of social and political upheaval that tends to be associated to the collapse of traditional monarchies.

Are you familiar with the term "cargo cult", at all?

 

[EnglishEdward]

How quickly will immigration to GB be affected? What will happen to the status of those "foreigners" now living in GB?

In the short term, unless outright violence breaks
out between In and Out factions, nothing.

In the long term, they will likely lose the right to claim top up social
security benefits e.g. for dependents not previously resident in the UK.

Their re-employment, if they want to change jobs, prospects
in the UK may diminish particularly if they are lowly skilled.

One thing that many working class people are very angry about
is that many employers have decided to employ migrants, e.g. via
sub-contracting gang masters, rather than employ British workers.

This may be dealt with by requiring an employer to prepay a stiff visa fee.

 

[Snorrius]

Another crappy painter leading a big country? No thanks.

Do not be too hard on Churchill.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Thorgalaeg, give us some on the ground insight. Will Spain finally get a government tonight? And if people just vote the same as they did last time, which seems likely, for how long will this situation be allowed to go on? What is the alternative? Minority government is a no-go?

I think results are going to be similar again. Maybe Podemos is going to slighty surpasse PSOE this time and both will have to make some sort of agreement. Pablo Iglesias being the next preident. But the guy has changed since the times when he was a Chavez employee, he is even wearing a tie now!

In any case people start to get bored of all this. The brexit and the eurocup being more present in the news than our own elections. I even forgot there were elections today again. Dont remember any elections spawning less interest than this one ever.

 

[luiz]

I think results are going to be similar again. Maybe Podemos is going to slighty surpasse PSOE this time and both will have to make some sort of agreement. Pablo Iglesias being the next preident. But the guy has changed since the times when he was a Chavez employee, he is even wearing a tie now!

In any case people start to get bored of all this. The brexit and the eurocup being more present in the news than our own elections. I even forgot there were elections today again. Dont remember any elections spawning less interest than this one ever.

Yikes. Good luck, you'll need it.

 

[EnglishEdward]

pretty irresponsible for a government obligated by treaties it has signed to uphold peace through that Agreement, to even be holding a vote

Although I have selected Arwon's text as above, my comment applies to
all those who say the UK referendum on the EU should not have been held.

Voting is democracy in case you lot did not know that.

David Cameron (Conservative) promised a referendum in the 2015 election,
and in my opinion that gave them the edge over David Miliband (Labour)
who did not promise a referendum, so he was duty bound to hold it.

Refusing to hold the promised referendum would be both a repudiation
of the legitimacy of the 2015 conservative victory, and tyranny.

It is irresponsible to advocate against democratic voting.

For all his faults, there were three referendums while David Cameron was our
Prime Minister, and I must give him credit for that democratic measure.

 

[Birdjaguar]

... have about 0.01% approval rating in Russia.

You are probably right, but that begs the question of which situation would be an improvement for the majority of the Russian people.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Absolutely, but that would be difficult since all that regional funding (as part of the legendary £350m) was promised to be paid into the NHS each week.

The pro Leave leaflet posted through my front door had "up to £350m" for the NHS.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Do not be too hard on Churchill.

Churchill was not that crappy indeed. He has some fairly nice paintings.

Yikes. Good luck, you'll need it.

It doesnt look so. Polls have been proved wrong again. PSOE is going up and Podemos down. Anyway we are in a similar situation like before.