Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[ori]

12 countries? sounds like that information is woefully out of date, what with the EU now having 28 members...

Edit: 1994 is not exactly current. Anything prior to the Lisbon treaty is just not how things work today - try information post-2009. The UK is not excluded from that.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Don't you think it's frankly shocking that over five million people apparently voted based on immigration?

No, I am not at all shocked. There is no reason why I should be.

I do not buy into this thought police nonsense pushed by new Labour that any
criticism of a country's immigration policy is in itself racist or xenophobic (if the
immigrants happen to be white) any more than any criticism of a country's
equality policy is automatically sexist or of homosexuals is itself homophobia.

UK voters are entitled to take their concern over the impact that substantive
further immmigration from the EU might have on housing, jobs etc. in voting.

A story on a demo about Theresea May's censorship policy was on BBC home page.

I'm not sure why she needs to mention that she's not "planning" on holding another GE until the legally appointed time, as it would take Parliamentary action to change the date these days. But yes, that is a ridiculously long time, especially with our new unelected overlady* soon to take up the reins.

According to wikipedia, Theresa May was elected by the UK voters in Maidenhead.

 

[Arakhor]

According to wikipedia, Theresa May was elected by the UK voters in Maidenhead.

You mean that she's MP for Maidenhead. I don't know about you, but I like my Prime Ministers to be more widely elected than that.

 

[Snerk]

Were there anybody on the political left side of the leave campaign who made any impact on the public debate in the UK? The norwegian remain out campaign in 94 was pretty dominated by the left.
Now these are different times but the news on the leave campaign at our end of things was completely dominated by Boris and Farage as spokesmen. Did Britains get a more nuanced picture?

 

[Arakhor]

Not really, no.

 

[Kyriakos]

12 countries? sounds like that information is woefully out of date, what with the EU now having 28 members...

Edit: 1994 is not exactly current. Anything prior to the Lisbon treaty is just not how things work today - try information post-2009. The UK is not excluded from that.

Another comedy gold moment

 

[Kyriakos]

Re Theresa May:

She does remind me of someone... Probably some dodgy psychopath, maybe the one in mr Robot, but likely one from a darker show.

Ah, yes, got it:

 

[Algeroth]

Well, if we are speaking in pictures, I found probably the best summary of this Brexit inconvenience

 

[JohannaK]

So Brits are secretly cats (or ruled by them). That explains so much.

 

[Takhisis]

Were there anybody on the political left side of the leave campaign who made any impact on the public debate in the UK? The norwegian remain out campaign in 94 was pretty dominated by the left.
Now these are different times but the news on the leave campaign at our end of things was completely dominated by Boris and Farage as spokesmen. Did Britains get a more nuanced picture?

Not really, no.

Well, the Norwegian campaign at least bothered to make plans and put forward well-thought-out arguments.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Were there anybody on the political left side of the leave campaign who made any impact on the public debate in the UK? The norwegian remain out campaign in 94 was pretty dominated by the left.
Now these are different times but the news on the leave campaign at our end of things was completely dominated by Boris and Farage as spokesmen. Did Britains get a more nuanced picture?

Not really, no.

For once I agree with you.

Few people read my posts.


Snerk:

The media love flamboyant characters and there were a large number
of issues such as corporate hospitality and lobbying of the EU elite, TTIP
and lack of democratic accountability that were not really debated at all.

How else do you think the Remain got as much as 48% of the vote?

An enduring problem is that many in the left confuse the dubious short term tactic
of having a EU to mitigate against the future plans of the right wing in the UK
with the current position of the EU enabling corporates to sidestep democracy.

Strangely enough I think that almost the only other UK person who understands
this is Jeremy Corbyn, however he is becoming a prisoner of his own party.

There is an interesting old article here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/16/brexit-eu-referendum-boris-johnson-greece-tory

The left fail to understand that it is firstly essential to decouple a democratic
country from an undemocratic controling framework and then win an election there.

 

[sophie]

For once I agree with you.

Few people read my posts.

I want to, I really do, but then I take one look at your formatting and just give up.

 

[Arakhor]

Few people read my posts.

I don't see why that's relevant to Snerk's question.

How else do you think the Remain got as much as 48% of the vote?

Given that it's pointless to speculate about how Leave "got as much as" 52% of the vote, it's equally pointless to do the reverse.

An enduring problem is that many in the left confuse the dubious short term tactic of having a EU to mitigate against the future plans of the right wing in the UK with the current position of the EU enabling corporates to sidestep democracy.

And the Tories will be even happier to implement TTIP given half a chance.

 

[Phrossack]

I want to, I really do, but then I take one look at your formatting and just give up.

I think it is a form of poetry that
does not have



meter or rhyme

 

[Winston Hughes]

Anyhow, how is Theresa May thought of in the UK? The impression I have gotten is that she is falls solidly into the "fear" side of Machiavelli's "feared or loved" setup.

Aye, you're on the right track.

She survived six years as Home Secretary - notorious as being the toughest job in government - without catching responsibility for any major blunders, suggesting that she's both hard as nails and extremely competent.

In terms of personality, she appears the mirror opposite of preening chancers like Nigel Farage or Boris Johnson, having little concern with her public image, beyond what's necessary to get her way.

And her underlying philosophy seems quite different to that of any Prime Minister in recent history. She's not a political cynic in the mould of Blair or Cameron, but nor is she a puritan like Thatcher or Brown. She does share something of John Major's pragmatic, team-first attitude - which is one big reason she's favourite - but she shows little of his faith in the basic decency of either the establishment or the public.

All in all, this makes her look quite the formidable character, and an attractive prospect to many, given the general mood of nervousness in the country.

The big question is how she will handle the spotlight. At the Home Office, she made the right noises at the right times, and otherwise just kept out of sight. That's not an option for Prime Ministers - or Tory leadership candidates - and nobody really knows how she'll cope with being the centre of attention. Lacking anything resembling either charm or compassion, she has only her reputation for competence to trade off, meaning that every misstep or misfortune represents a potential body-blow.

 

[Lexicus]

Well, if we are speaking in pictures, I found probably the best summary of this Brexit inconvenience

Too accurate #savage

No but seriously how stupid are Boris and Farage?

 

[Takhisis]

Stupid… or just plain arsetards? Famed gagman David Mitchell has postulated that Nigel Farage is not really a xenophobe. He was percieved as one because he hated anyone but the English, but now that he's stepped out of the mess he helped create then it's proof that he also hates the English.

Does it make sense?

 

[Winston Hughes]

Stupid… or just plain arsetards? Famed gagman David Mitchell has postulated that Nigel Farage is not really a xenophobe. He was percieved as one because he hated anyone but the English, but now that he's stepped out of the mess he helped create then it's proof that he also hates the English.

Does it make sense?

It's not hatred. He just doesn't care. There's never been any principle there, only ambition and vanity.

This is why, like Johnson, he is loathed even by those who recognised the benefits of his patronage to their cause.

But it's also why he was so effective as a figurehead. Unburdened by anything so cumbersome as belief or conscience, he could quite effortlessly stir up fear and hatred with one hand whilst making soothing not-a-bigot gestures with the other.

 

[Takhisis]

Readignthat post is as illuminating as it is disturbing.

 

[FriendlyFire]

12 countries? sounds like that information is woefully out of date, what with the EU now having 28 members...

Edit: 1994 is not exactly current. Anything prior to the Lisbon treaty is just not how things work today - try information post-2009. The UK is not excluded from that.

Interesting
I still not sure what EU laws allow vetoing and what only requires majority voting, The example below which I assume are financial decisions allow require both unanimous and Majority voting ?
Lisbon treaty have moved EU more law making to majority voting, which has been balanced by increased membership of the EU, thus reducing the Big three voting power (UK, FR and GR)

Has the UK given up its tax and banking veto?

Britain has a veto over tax measures, but for some issues that affect UK banks and financial institutions can be out-voted by other EU members.

The EU has no control over the most important taxes, such as income tax and National Insurance, as well as taxes such as stamp duty on properties and inheritance tax. All national governments within the EU have control over setting these taxes.

Nor does the EU have any say over how the taxes governments collect should be spent. There are no plans to change that.

The current rules mean EU countries can only apply zero or reduced VAT rates to an agreed list of goods and services. That list can only be changed by unanimous agreement of all 28 governments, meaning everyone has a veto over what's on it.

For example, all 28 members had to agree to new VAT proposals, which would pave the way for the UK to remove VAT from sanitary products - the so-called tampon tax.

There are no plans to scrap the power of veto in this area either.

EU countries also agree minimum duties on alcohol, fuel and tobacco. The UK imposes significantly higher duties on all those products.

These minimums also have to be agreed by unanimity, so the UK has a veto over them too.

Many of the issues affecting financial institutions do not require unanimous agreement. That means no country has a veto as they are decided by qualified majority voting, which requires the agreement of at least 55% of the member states, representing 65% of the population of the EU.

For example, the UK government was outvoted in 2013 when the EU decided to put a cap on bankers' bonuses, despite strongly opposing such a move.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36101443