Key witness in Botham Jean case shot to death.

[Gorbles]

"may have lived in Dallas previously"

Listen to yourself. You're making assumption upon assumption to defend something that isn't even known as a fact. You're taking the police department's side and rationalising their verdict based solely on you agreeing with them. You're not providing facts, you're speculating in ways that support their verdict.

This isn't a discussion, it's just you trying to find ways to argue that the dead guy was allegedly a dealer. Perhaps wait for more evidence to surface? Or at the very least, respect people (and their arguments) who believe in other explanations for his death.

 

[NovaKart]

"may have lived in Dallas previously"

Listen to yourself. You're making assumption upon assumption to defend something that isn't even known as a fact. You're taking the police department's side and rationalising their verdict based solely on you agreeing with them. You're not providing facts, you're speculating in ways that support their verdict.

This isn't a discussion, it's just you trying to find ways to argue that the dead guy was allegedly a dealer. Perhaps wait for more evidence to surface? Or at the very least, respect people (and their arguments) who believe in other explanations for his death.

Let’s look at what we do know then. Three suspects have been arrested. One was wounded, allegedly after being shot by Brown. The police say they found 12 pounds of marijuana, THC cartridges and $4000 cash in his home. I don’t know if you’re disputing what the police said here.

The suspects met Brown in a parking lot, according to the police, which explains why nothing from his apartment was taken

Brown’s attorney said he had been shot last year in an unsolved case and was concerned the assailants might return.

Brown’s attorney also said he had been threatened with jail time to get him to testify in the trial.

You seem to find it far fetched that the suspects would travel from out of state to buy marijuana from Brown. I brought up possible explanations, not assumptions, of why they may have known him and done this.

You also seem to be rejecting the possibility he sold drugs because this had not already been known (by the public I guess) before he was killed.

 

[innonimatu]

Breaking Bad had so much better writers.

Come on, if in this show we're all in someone can do "suicide" while kneeling in prison, anything goes!

 

[Berzerker]

According to court testimony, Guyger entered the wrong apartment in her building and shot Jean as he sat on his couch eating ice cream. She was found guilty and sentenced to 10 years in prison.

how in the hell did she manage that?

a couch potato with a tub of ice cream was a burglar?

anyway, the cops have arrested a couple of guys from the prior incident.

On Tuesday, authorities arrested Jacquerious Mitchell, 20, and Michael Mitchell, 32, according to a statement by the Avoyelles Parish Sheriff’s Office. Suspect Thaddeous Green, 22, remains at large.

Officials claim the three suspects traveled to Dallas from Louisiana to buy drugs from Brown. An altercation ensued, and police say Brown shot Jacquerious Mitchell once in the chest. Green allegedly returned fire, striking Brown twice. Police claim Michael Mitchell drove the getaway car.

 

[NovaKart]

I don’t understand why she thought it was her apartment. Did they have very similar furniture? Maybe it’s a furnished apartment where they all look alike.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I don’t understand why she thought it was her apartment. Did they have very similar furniture? Maybe it’s a furnished apartment where they all look alike.

Yes, that is a fundamental question. I don't think she ever answered it.

 

[NovaKart]

I just thought, maybe the lights were out when she walked in.

 

[Gorbles]

Let’s look at what we do know then. Three suspects have been arrested. One was wounded, allegedly after being shot by Brown. The police say they found 12 pounds of marijuana, THC cartridges and $4000 cash in his home. I don’t know if you’re disputing what the police said here.

The suspects met Brown in a parking lot, according to the police, which explains why nothing from his apartment was taken

Brown’s attorney said he had been shot last year in an unsolved case and was concerned the assailants might return.

Brown’s attorney also said he had been threatened with jail time to get him to testify in the trial.

You seem to find it far fetched that the suspects would travel from out of state to buy marijuana from Brown. I brought up possible explanations, not assumptions, of why they may have known him and done this.

You also seem to be rejecting the possibility he sold drugs because this had not already been known (by the public I guess) before he was killed.

All the apparent facts that we know are based on police testimony after the fact. Police testimony from a department known for controversy (and that's putting it mildly).

My question to you is: why can't you let people simply have a different opinion? It's pretty obvious you're not going to change yours; that's not my intention here. My intention is to show you that you're relying on believe as much as anyone else is, even if what they believe is different to what you choose to. Heavens, you can't seem to understand why the woman in question shot the original person that started this case. Hint: it might not have been a mistake!

For example, an easy and simple explanation is: the police planted the evidence and coerced the suspects to give their testimony (if it counts as testimony, not sure). The problem is, you don't seem to respect these other explanations as much as the ones you're creating.

 

[Bamspeedy]

It's not testimony unless it's in court. As of now it's statements they made to police. It's possible these statements are fake, but if these suspects are not claiming they are, why should I believe it's likely?

 

[Farm Boy]

I don’t understand why she thought it was her apartment. Did they have very similar furniture? Maybe it’s a furnished apartment where they all look alike.

Dunno. I've never heard so many people in the industry respond "Do not pass GO" when she claimed self defense.

 

[Gorbles]

It's not testimony unless it's in court. As of now it's statements they made to police. It's possible these statements are fake, but if these suspects are not claiming they are, why should I believe it's likely?

You don't have to. But you don't have to call it a fetish either. People are allowed to be critical of police, especially a department with a known track record.

 

[Socrates99]

I don’t understand why she thought it was her apartment. Did they have very similar furniture? Maybe it’s a furnished apartment where they all look alike.

Simple, that was a lie. Jean was a loud gregarious guy. Brown's testimony alluded to that and Guyger had complained about noise from Jean's apartment in the past. She went up there to "solve" the problem then concocted a story.

I mean, no warnings? No "freeze" "hands up or I'll shoot"? Nothing like that? Even in Brown's testimony he said he heard words but couldn't understand it. There was an exchange before Jean was killed. At no time during that exchange did Guyger look around and realize her mistake? Her story is absurd. Even in a furnished apartment there's going to be noticable differences right away, TV models, wall hangings, appliances, smells, etc.

The fact that her story alone remained the accepted chain of events shows bias. Now a key witness is killed shortly after this sentence. We're supposed to believe he was a drug dealer? Does anyone honestly believe that a drug dealer would insert himself in such a high profile case? He expressed fear on the stand and now we're supposed to believe that this guy, afraid of retribution, is doing drug deals in front of his apartment with people he doesn't know from out of state?

If anyone believes the official police narrative in either of these murders I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Seriously hit me up.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

It's a black man's life versus the institution of the DPD and we all know how little a black person's life is worth in America, heck look at this thread you've got people falling over themselves trying to defend the dpd

 

[MaryKB]

My feeling is there's a lot of confirmation bias going on, I feel many of you want to believe the police are some sort of mafia, and are making many stretches to make things fit. Some of those might make a good television drama, but I feel are way too convoluted for real life, and remember the simpler an explanation is the more likely it's true. There's no doubt the police (especially in that area!) have such a poor track record, but as someone said before here's a HUGE difference between racially targeted abuse of power and outright assassinations, I really think you've got to make quite a jump to go from one to the other.

I feel it's dangerous to start making assumptions without enough information, suspicion is one thing, but I think you've got to be careful with making decisions, because that can affect how you perceive things in the future.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I mean yes but the department in question has literally falsely accused innocent people of color of dealing drugs in the past so they don't get the benefit of the doubt

 

[Gorbles]

My feeling is there's a lot of confirmation bias going on, I feel many of you want to believe the police are some sort of mafia, and are making many stretches to make things fit. Some of those might make a good television drama, but I feel are way too convoluted for real life, and remember the simpler an explanation is the more likely it's true. There's no doubt the police (especially in that area!) have such a poor track record, but as someone said before here's a HUGE difference between racially targeted abuse of power and outright assassinations, I really think you've got to make quite a jump to go from one to the other.

I feel it's dangerous to start making assumptions without enough information, suspicion is one thing, but I think you've got to be careful with making decisions, because that can affect how you perceive things in the future.

I feel there'd be more leeway with maybe some other (American) police departments, but Dallas in particular has a proven track record (I linked Wikipedia earlier in the thread as the DPD has had enough controversies to have a nice half a page dedicated to them). It's not just "the police" (though certainly there's arguments to be made there), but each department can often be radically different to its approach in various situations.

 

[MaryKB]

Oh I'm absolutely sure they have, you won't have to convince me they're extremely racist I just feel that an organized assassination is a totally different kind of thing, you know what I mean?

Lots of people of color are wrongfully arrested and imprisoned, due to racism. Like I heard about one man who was put in jail because he was "close enough" to their suspect (basically they're looking for a black man, and arrested the first one they found!)

I think also I'm just not really one to quickly jump on conspiracy theories, lol!

 

[Kozmos]

My feeling is there's a lot of confirmation bias going on, I feel many of you want to believe the police are some sort of mafia, and are making many stretches to make things fit.

In every state I've been the police are a mafia, it just depends on how much they get away with. Public service doesnt invite the best people, only the most pliable ones.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Does anyone honestly believe that a drug dealer would insert himself in such a high profile case?

He did flee to California, and only testified after being threatened with jail time.

He expressed fear on the stand and now we're supposed to believe that this guy, afraid of retribution, is doing drug deals in front of his apartment with people he doesn't know from out of state?

He had a right to fear being shot, he already had been shot before. He was worried the previous shooter would come looking for him, not the police.

is doing drug deals in front of his apartment with people he doesn't know from out of state?

Do you have evidence they were 'complete strangers'?

--------

Oh, evidence, what is it? What counts as evidence and what doesn't? Claims and theories made up by people with no connection to the case? Evidence gathered by police.....oh no, we can't use that because some individuals (a few, a couple, one?) within the department of over 3000 officers nearly 20 years ago (who, hopefully don't work there anymore), faked evidence, we can dismiss any and all future evidence. There can be good officers within a department that historically has had some problems, and there can be bad officers in a department that has never previously had a big scandal.

So much for this case being 'filed away in a drawer and forgotten'. They do their job and still are accused of being evil. Thankfully, Brown's killers were caught from the tips that pored in, and these tipsters were not from the "Don't help the police" crowd.

 

[Gorbles]

You do realise you're claiming the department's problems are "historical" in relation to a modern-day case where a police officer shot someone, right? Jean, by the way, in case you think I'm referencing Brown.