Leaders of never before seen Civs - Elimination thread

[conorbebe]

Her accomplishments are relatively few and minor and the glamor of her life derives in the popular imagination from a musical. Similarly an obsession with Cleopatra's glamorous image led to her inclusion in VI despite her similar lack of accomplishments. Eva and Cleo were both intelligent women, sure, but as leaders they didn't do so well. And Eva being a leader is arguable since she failed in her vice presidential bid.

As far as I understand, she didn't fail her vice presidential bid, she just decided not to run. The people no doubt would have voted her in however. And that's not to mention the fact that she fell ill shortly after and died of cervical cancer at the age of 33. I believe had that not been the case, she would have had a long career in politics ahead of her.

Additionally, I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with a leader being glamorous. I'd rather play as someone with an image, someone who symbolised an age or movement, over a bland politician I've never even heard of.

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - 8 (11 - 3) I'm least enthusiastic about Mexico as a civ.
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 18 (17 + 1) A cultural icon.
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 23
Idia (Benin) - 22
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 14
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 21
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 18

 

[Guandao]

Sassanid/Safavid/Mughal leaders have been in many elimination games, why put them into this one?

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - 8
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 18
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 23
Idia (Benin) - 22
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - (14-3)=11 If the Bible says he is a bad leader....
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 21
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - (18+1)=19 Cruel Dracula makes for a fun Civ leader.

 

[Morningcalm]

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - 8
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 18 - 3 = 15 (She was a First Lady like Elanor Roosevelt, and had charity/women's/poverty related work like many First Ladies or like Jadwiga, minus Jadwiga's more diplomatic accomplishments. My understanding was Eva wanted to make a bid for Vice President but was dissuaded by her husband and the military, illness notwithstanding. She was not a great leader even if she carries celebrity status and was beloved. Heck, Joan of Arc was more a leader than Eva Peron, arguably.)
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 23
Idia (Benin) - 22 + 1 = 23 (Her influence and warlike accomplishments are considerable.)
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 11 Don't be so quick to believe everything Siptah says. Solomon is represented as a wealthy and wise ruler in the Bible, and indeed iconic for his wisdom as well as his written contributions to the Bible, which include Proverbs.
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 21
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 19

 

[Siptah]

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - 8
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 15
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24 (23+1) I think they are long overdue as a civ, being certainly among the most impressive natives of the new world (at least for me). They lack the famous pyramids, temples and modern tourist sites of the Maya, Aztecs and Inka - but they were certainly on a similar level culturally. I think Nemequene is among the best known leaders, at least pre-Spanish. 'Best known' is still below what I'd want to have as a minimum, but I guess it's enough to make a leader ability and agenda out of it. Probably a blood-thirsty warmonger of some kind who leads a culture or mountain civ.
Idia (Benin) - 23
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 8 (11-3) [rant]Sure, the bible says he was a wise ruler and build the temple. But it also says he was a heretic and as punishment for that, God decided to rip his kingdom in two (after his death, because he was such a wise ruler and build the temple... You just got to love the old testament!). I'm not a big fan of including ancient Israel anyway, but if so, choosing a king that actively worked against the creation of a monotheistic belief seems an odd choice. If you don't count the 'unique' religion of Israel, there's no reason at all to include them. And I dislike that every few years a fake and misinterpreted archeological evidence of his or his temple shows up somewhere. Gates, stables, palaces, seals: they have all been attributed to him by people who want to prove the stories of the bible through archeology (which - thank god! - are rare outside this field of study nowadays), instead of archeologists who want to find out what likely happened and then check this with the bible. Disproving those and the weird argumentation behind it takes up a lot of valuable time that could be used in a better way.
And of course, Morningcalm is right, you shouldn't believe people on the internet about history, and you shouldn't believe online encyclopedias about history ;-) Good thing is that the bible is available everywhere and many works by exegetes are old enough to be freely available as well. Enough to form your own opinion and not rely on unreliable other sources if you want to invest the time needed - you don't even have to invest money. [/rant]
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 21
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 19

 

[Kimiimaro]

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - 8
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 15
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 23
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 8+1=9 - Why to eliminate Solomon for being a "bad king", when we can eliminate Vlad the Impaler first? Also, I'd like to see Hebrew Civ once, and I think he's a decent choice to lead it.
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 21
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 19-3=16 - Yes, a well known leader and an interesting choice to lead Romania or Wallachia, but let's not forget that he was also incredibly cruel man.

 

[Xandinho]

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - 8
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 15
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 23
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 9
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 21 - 3 = 18 I'm not too excited with a Timurid civ
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 16 + 1 = 17 Just because I like his eccentric and quirky appearance

 

[Guandao]

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - (8-3)=5 Probably the best choice for a Mexican leader, but I'm not as enthusiastic about Mexico becoming a Civ as I am about most of the others left.
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 15
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 23
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 9
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) -18
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - (17+1)=18 So many leaders in the game already did horrible or cruel things to their enemies and even their own family members (Peter had his son executed), so why object to Vlad's appearance in the game?

 

[Kimiimaro]

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - 5
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 15
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 23
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 9+1=10 - From what I read, he was quite successful leader. Also, there are worse leaders to go before him...
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) -18
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 18-3=15 - ...like Vlad the Impaler. There are many sources of his incredible cruelty. It is said that he killed between 40 000 to 100 000 people.

 

[Guandao]

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - 5
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 15
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 23
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - (10-3)=7 I'm not fond of potentially fictional leaders. Any archeological proof for Solomon's existence? More boring since we haven't any clue how he looked like.
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) -18
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - (15+1)=16 Not much worst than Timur and is still the most interesting leader choice for Romania.

 

[Morningcalm]

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - 5
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 15 - 3 = 12 (Having a first lady as leader when she had no authority over the military, and was in fact unable to make her vice presidential bid in earnest due to military pressure = not suitable to lead a nation. She should be a Great Person at best, and even that seems too generous. People like her more for her glamor it seems.)
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 23 + 1 = 24 (As a fan of the civ and the leader, I think this mighty queen makes an excellent upvote choice.)
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 7
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 18
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 16

 

[Xandinho]

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - 2 (5 - 3) If Eva Perón is falling. This one must fall sooner.
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 13 (12 + 1) Must survive until some others fall. I like her.
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 24
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 7
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 18
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 16

 

[conorbebe]

Benito Juárez (Mexico) - ELIMINATED (2 - 3) Not particularly interested in having Mexico in Civ, sorry.
Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 14 (13 + 1) If Gandhi gets to be in Civ, so should Eva.
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 24
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 7
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 18
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 16

 

[Kimiimaro]

Charles IV (Bohemia) - 24+1=25 - A very successful and good leader. He recieved a poor and ruined country, and he made it important, rich and famous. During his reign, Prague became one of the most important cities in the whole Europe. He was a great builder too. For example, he built the Karlštejn Castle, Charles Bridge, and Charles University (which is also the oldest university in Central Europe). He also ordered the creation of Czech crown jewels. He was also the first king of Bohemia to become the emperor of HRE. Oh, and here in Czech Republic, we call him "Otec vlasti" which means "Father of the country". He even won the first place in a TV poll "Největší Čech" (the Greatest Czech).
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 14
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 24
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 7
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 18
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 16-3=13 - He is mostly famous for two things: For his fights against the Ottoman Empire and for him being a brutal and cruel leader.

 

[Guandao]

Charles IV (Bohemia) - 25
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 14
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 24
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - (7-3)=4 I prefer Hezekiah.
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 18
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - (13+1)=14 We need a villainous leader in the game.

 

[Morningcalm]

Charles IV (Bohemia) - 25
Dihya (Berbers) - 21
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 14 - 3 = 11 (Sorry, but I dislike the idea of a first lady leading an entire civ far too much. She was not a queen regnant or anything close. She was a young pop star who accomplished only what many first ladies do. She had no military authority and did not become a vice president as a result of pressure from her husband and the military. I can understand there is sympathy for her due to her death from cancer, but doesn't make her a worthy leader of a worldwide civ. At least Jadwiga had numerous diplomatic accomplishments. Eva lacks any of those.)
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 24 + 1 = 25 (A better choice for a female leader, since she actually led, including in military matters. To quote from a blog that cites numerous other secondary sources: "She was a strong warrior who fought relentlessly before... and during her son's reign as the Oba (king) of the Edo people...Idia mobilised an army around Esigie, which defeated Arhuaran, and Oba Esigie became the 16th king. Subsequently, the neighboring islamic invaders through Igala...was brought under control by Esigie conquest of the islamic colonization of the Igala, reestablishing the unity and military strength of the kingdom of Benin. Idia received much of the credit for these victories as her political counsel, together with her magical powers and medicinal knowledge, were viewed as critical elements of Esigie's success on the battlefield.")
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 4
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 18
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 14

 

[Siptah]

Charles IV (Bohemia) - 25
Dihya (Berbers) - 18 (21-3) I'd rather have Morocco, Algeria or Kanem-Bornu. All three would need a different leader than Dihya.
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 12 (11+1) iconic and with an interesting personality. I'd love to see the civ in the game - for me it has the most interesting history of the post-colonial nations that I know (except Algeria). So I'm ok with a non-leader. Focusing too much on leaders is a problem that Firaxis introduced themselves, nice for gameplay, bad for history. I'm willing to make concessions if there are good reasons, like for her or Martin Luther.
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 25
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 4
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 18
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 14

 

[Xandinho]

Charles IV (Bohemia) - 25
Dihya (Berbers) - 18
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 12 + 1 = 13 I think she has real and significant chances of being included in the game. Firstly because Civ6 seems to be giving special attention to female leaders. Second because Eva Perón is iconic, and I do not know if there is another female leader in South America that is more recognizable than her. And third, because Argentina has great chances to be included in the game, since we already have Buenos Aires in the base game. She did not have real power, but I do not know another more iconic Argentine political leader.
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 25
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 4
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 18 - 3 = 15 I'm not very interested in a civ Timurid.
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 14

 

[conorbebe]

Charles IV (Bohemia) - 25
Dihya (Berbers) - 18
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 14 (13 + 1) One does not always need to hold an official position of authority to have a voice of authority.
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 25
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 1 (4 - 3) Most likely the next to go, and I'm not that fussed about having a Hebrew civ. From what I hear, Soloman wasn't amazing anyway.
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 15
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 14

 

[Kimiimaro]

Charles IV (Bohemia) - 25
Dihya (Berbers) - 18
Eva Perón (Argentina) - 14
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 25
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Solomon (Hebrews) - 1-3=-2 (ELIMINATED) - Sometimes, even quite good choices have to go. I'd really like to se a Hebrew Civ, but his fall is inevitable. Well, I still have Hezekiah for some future round
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) - 15+1=16 - I think he could be a good replacement of Genghis Khan's Mongolia.
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - 14

 

[Guandao]

Charles IV (Bohemia) - 25
Dihya (Berbers) - 18
Eva Perón (Argentina) - (14-3)=11 Choices are getting tough, but I'm not fond of Evita as much as most of the remaining leaders, since she didn't actually rule Argentina.
Hongi Hika (Maori) - 24
Nemequene (Muisca) - 24
Idia (Benin) - 25
Lorenzo de' Medici (Florence/Italy) - 25
Ranavalona I (Madagascar) - 22
Osei Kofi Tutu I (Ashanti) - 23
Songtsen Gampo (Tibet) - 23
Tamar (Georgia) - 24
Timur (Timurid Empire) -16
Vlad the Impaler (Romania/Wallachia) - (14+1)=15 If Timur is ok for Civ, then Vlad is ok for Civ.

@Siptah Why do you want to see Algeria in the game? Just curious.