Swedishguy
Deity
If any EU nation has to go, it's Ireland. I mean, just look at the sheer amount of money they get from the EU!
Let's expel Poland from the EU!
- Thread starter Enkidu Warrior
- Start date
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Why? it would only cause tensions. The way it is if You want to gain something, You should give something in return.
Luckily, You'd need Poland to agree to limit the veto power, so...
... so the patience of the rest of Europe is growing thin.
Czech government is composed of three parties - the Civic Democrats (Conservatives, but very liberal in economic affairs, they used to be very eurosceptic), Christian Democrats and Greens. When it was formed, everybody expected they'd do a lot of trouble in Brussels.
But they don't - they're critical, but when it comes to matters of great importance to the whole EU, they compromise. That's what EU is about - compromise.
If you hope that if you're stubborn enough, everybody will step back and give you everything you want, you'll be very badly surprised when they finally tell you to go to hell, politely, of course.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
As far as I know, they'll get nothing in the future. The current subsidies and development funds were set up when Ireland was one of the poorest members. Now, they're one of the richest, so they're gonna pay like others.
Pannonius
Reconquistador
Why are you allways telling people you don't concur with to shut up?
If EU is like that, don't count me in!
Winner
Diverse in Unity
I am telling that to silver, because I am kinda allergic to his infantile views.
Enkidu Warrior
Ultramagnetic
Indeed, I shudder to think.
I completely agree, I wouldn't criticise Poland for having a go at Russia. I do however think that Poland's (understandable) obsession with Russia, though shared by much of Eastern Europe, is something of a childish annoyance to much of Western Europe. We need to understand each other more, and we need a united position on Russia if we are to confront them with strength. Germany has really stabbed Eastern Europe in the back with Russia, and Poland poisons the well of Russian-EU relations which it's just going to have to accept are essential to Europe's future.
No. They never did become interested in your spat with Russia. They just became interested in putting an end to your childish tantrum. Poland's arguments with Russia are less important to the EU than economic deals with Russia. Poland is going to have to moderate its stance on Russia in line with the EU's before the EU can act as one and stop Russia from playing us all against each other. Don't get me wrong, Western Europe is also going to have to stop dealing with Russia behind the East's back.
Not that it would do much, of course. It wants Poland to resign of veto for a mere promess of support in the future
Russia changed its national holiday to a day commemorating anti-polish uprising, as well. I wouldn't mind, really, if it wasn't accompanied by a serie of moves directed against Poland - and other eastern european nations that try to break free from it.
It's not Poland that has problems with Russia.
It's Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia. Even Armenia is not fully content with them.
And Poland has been the innocent lamb, doing nothing to provoke Russia. Don't try and paint me as defending Russia, I wouldn't dream of it, but Russia can see that Poland is punching above it's weight without the backing of an embarressed EU, and that gives it free license to get away with murder. Come what may, the EU is going to have a close relationship and interdependence with Russia, and if Poland tries to obstruct that it's going to get dumped like it did with the pipeline. Poland has isolated itself, and continues to.
Russia doesn't want to kill you, and if it did the whole EU and NATO would be behind you. I don't want Poland to be expelled from the EU. Congratulations to what seems to be the only person who realised that. I'm not criticising Poland for having a dessenting opinion. I am criticising Poland for abusing the EU's institutions and obstructing our functions rather than compromising when they are in a minority of one. But more importantly I'm just venting on the stupidity of Poland's insulting excuse for a government and the fact that the whole EU has to put up with the consequences of the election of idiots in just one member state with an inflated ego.
Poland has reasons to complain, but no justification to be anti-German. Bringing up World War 2 was beyond the pale. Germany should have to suffer a lot of criticism for selling out Poland over the pipeline, but it should never have to suffer the kind of vile noise that Poland's government has been making lately. Japan deserves that kind of thing, but not Germany.
Erm, Germany didn't exist before 1990. Give it a break.
Germany was vastly under-represented. Poland was asking for a laughably inflated number of votes. Poland's attempt at negotiating for this absurd aim was to say 'But they're Nazis!'. Stunts like this make Berlusconi look like a model European citizen.
Sure, Poland has no responsibility whatsoever...
Clumsy?! Whether they are wrong is really something for Poland to decide, but in the meantime expect to be left out in the cold plenty more, which leaves you vulnerable to Russian dirty tricks.
I'm not concerned with your disagreement, but I'm embarressed by Poland's backwardness and angered when it tries to foist it on the rest of us. At the end of the day, the EU, which already had very little ability to bring it's members together, is now unable even to say something about the death penalty, an issue on which approximately everyone in Europe agrees on. Poland has relatively fringe views within Europe, which is fine, but not if it expects the EU to grind to a halt to accomodate them.
France and Germany occasionally act like arrogant idiots. Unfortunately, EU or no EU, they are in a position to. Poland is not. Grow up.
Enkidu Warrior
Ultramagnetic
Indeed, if Poland had a more cooperative approach it would have simply sought to opt out of this venture. That would be a fine way for a country with fringe political views to behave, and they'd have my backing even if I thought they were being backwards.
Instead they are throwing a tantrum and preventing every other member state from persuing an overwhelmingly supported project.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
that was indeed the argument they used to get more votes in the EU, totally nutty
We were promised more votes because at the time the formula for determining votes was different than it is now..
unless you have a link pointing me to some quote from the Polish government backing up what you're saying?
Winner said:
I'll agree with you on this point
Enkidu Warrior said:
We were offered that number of votes during entry negotiations.
Enkidu Warrior said:
Why not? We're all equals, right?
Enkidu Warrior
Ultramagnetic
Okay, I'll bite.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,490178,00.html
http://www.eubusiness.com/news_live/1182528012.51/
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/21/europe/EU-GEN-EU-Summit.php
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1969332.ece
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ian_traynor/2007/06/poles_apart.html
Enkidu Warrior
Ultramagnetic
You shouldn't have been. You had almost the same power as Germany. Can you seriously defend that?
This can be easily solved by nuking Finland. In fact, I think that's the appropriate response to everything.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Well, say you go to a bank to get a mortgage, and they give you a 1% rate 0% downpayment mortgage.. which is insane - nobody will give you a rate like that.
After you sign all the papers, and start paying the bills, the bank notifies you that the 1% is not really fair, and that it's upping it to 5%.
They can't really do that, now can they?
I'm not saying that the initial voting system was fair (or that the new one is), but that's what we were offered during negotiations, and that's what was agreed on.
Personally, I prefer the square root system, but it doesn't have enough backing.
As for the quotes you provided, yeah, Kaczynski is an idiot.. but you will never find any quotes like that from before Poland entered the EU, when the voting power was initially discussed.
How does it poison the relationships? What exactly did it do?
The problem is that in Russia, as well as in Belarus, since they have good relationships with Germany and they can't anger USA, Poland is the third best when it comes to external enemy. Our relationships are currently bad for one reason mostly: that Poland supported orange side in Ukraine heavily, helping Kiev cease being a russian puppet. None other country but Lithuania perhaps was that much engaged in this crisis... And Russia on the other side, obviously. Putin can't forgive that. And we acted in Europe's best interest, which history will oneday see.
Tantrum? OK. Russia introduces embargo on polish foodstuff for political reasons. EU is obliged to help in such matters, but it does not. Poland was warning that it'd veto the deal if it didn't get help. And so it did. Sorry, our politics was 100% right here. If we didn't do it, the rest of Europe would never do it.
What did it do to Russia according to You? How did it provoke it?
If You mean the voting quarrel...
1) Poland was not alone
2) Poland proposed a compromise, but Germany was so kind it didn't even want to agree to talk about it, only after a long time it reluctantly found time to listen to us. Is it the way one should treat another in the EU? Poland was being offered nothing for resignation of its old rights. It was not Poland that didn't want to talk or compromise - it was Germany.
Why? Israel does it all of the time.
Why not? The highest german officials are visiting congregations of those that would love german border to be shifter a couple of voivodships east. Neo-nazis got 7% in elections in Meklemburg. Oh, I know our gouverment is making too much fuss about it, I know that it only helps anti-polish sentiments, I know that it does so to get votes in poland... yet it's not like there's nothing wrong.
Yes it did. Current Germany is descendant of western Germany. Eastern G accepted the border in the fifties, western - in the seventies, but under condition the final acceptance would be left to united Germany. that is no ordinary condition. In international law, if You annex a nation, if there's a merger of nations, You inherit the border deals.
no it was not, it was asking for less votes than it already had at this moment.
Please prove that. Anyway, why should Europe say whatever about death penalty? Why can't it leave it to separate states? Why is it so important?
And that is exactly what is wrong with EU
All these urls and just one thing said
Masquerouge
Deity
I have to agree that Poland is particularly annoying, but they should not be kicked out.
Thorbal
not enough ram!
If the EU would kick a member everytime there is a bit of trouble, there would be no members left in a very short amount of time 
.
I just hope that the Kaczynskis ( sp? ) will not be re-elected, they really did not do Poland any good imho, and especially not the Polish-German relations ( this goes both ways, of course, but we don´t get to vote until 2009 ) .
And I think the whole issue with those certain people wanting to "expand eastward" is severely overrated... they are a VERY small group of people ( way below 1000 members ) , generally laughed at, and nobody with the slightest bit of brain left supports their cause, and when somebody does so officially, he generally gets into a LOT of trouble. Doing so is, in most cases, a way of public suicide. I think you could find such groups in every country if you dig deep enough. But I agree, they are really a nuisance and should just keep their mouths shut. No German government would ever break the agreements regarding the eastern border ( again ) , I just cannot see that happen.
. I just hope that the Kaczynskis ( sp? ) will not be re-elected, they really did not do Poland any good imho, and especially not the Polish-German relations ( this goes both ways, of course, but we don´t get to vote until 2009
) .And I think the whole issue with those certain people wanting to "expand eastward" is severely overrated... they are a VERY small group of people ( way below 1000 members ) , generally laughed at, and nobody with the slightest bit of brain left supports their cause, and when somebody does so officially, he generally gets into a LOT of trouble. Doing so is, in most cases, a way of public suicide. I think you could find such groups in every country if you dig deep enough. But I agree, they are really a nuisance and should just keep their mouths shut. No German government would ever break the agreements regarding the eastern border ( again ) , I just cannot see that happen.
carmen510
Deity
Just wait for the new elections.
MjM
Deity
Poland needs to be reinvaded by Germany and Russia again to remember it's place!
carmen510
Deity
I think you mean 'ceremonial remembrance', to avoid condemnation from non-EU members. 
Winner
Diverse in Unity
I have to agree with that.
It's Russia and its neo-imperial ambitions what's spoiling the relations. Poland, the Czech Republic or any other post-communist country is now sovereign and have a right to pursue a foreign policy that is independent on Russian will.
They should realize that finally.
Pannonius
Reconquistador
"Let's expel Poland from the EU" becomes another "evil Ruskies" thread.
It's funny for so many reasons...
It's funny for so many reasons...
