Mueller finds more witches
- Thread starter Zkribbler
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Lexicus
Deity
The US requires unanimous jury decision for criminal charges in almost all cases, though according to Google Oregon and Louisiana do not require a unanimous decision, though Louisiana requires a unanimous decision for capital crimes.
Seems odd to us although apparently the judge can declare a mistrial in the event of a hung jury and the person be retried. Does that happen often? If the case has been highly publicised I'd imagine that the defence would argue that it would be impossible to find a jury whose opinions haven't been affected by the publicity.
Lexicus
Deity
I am not a lawyer or an expert of any kind, but I believe it happens fairly regularly. Regularly enough that Commodore's suggestion that a mistrial on 10/18 charges for Manafort means the whole prosecution is illegitimate is very very stupid.
As to this, I'm really not sure. Maybe @metalhead or @JollyRoger can speak to it.
Farm Boy
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Timsup2nothin
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Not really. The deck is so heavily stacked in favor of the prosecution that in most cases getting even one juror to pay attention to the defense is pretty challenging.
metalhead
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Prosecutors will re-evaluate their case, gauge the likelihood of success, and then decide whether to re-try the case. When they have a single hold-out - which, I mean, the holdout still convicted on 8 counts, so I don't think anyone ought to hold that against the person - I'd say the move would almost always be to re-try the case.
UNLESS, as they have here, there are some convictions. The prosecutors have 8 felony counts to sentence Manafort on, and since he wasn't acquitted on the other charges, his conduct which led to those charges can be argued by the prosecution and factored in by the judge when determining the length of his sentence.
Seeing as they have up to 80 years to work with, the prosecution might simply decide it's not worth the effort of another trial and just try to stick it to him at his sentencing. Especially since he is already facing another trial in a different court.
This argument is always made when high profile cases end in a hung jury. It happened in the Bill Cosby case, and his first jury was hung on all counts. They found another jury and got their conviction the second time around.
The argument always fails, because the system recognizes that there is no such thing as an unbiased juror. They can find jurors who are ignorant about the evidence going in, even in a high profile trial, which is really what matters and is the best you can hope for under the circumstances.
It does leave the door a little more open for an appeal of a jury verdict than it otherwise might be; jury verdicts are almost never overturned as a matter of principle. But that's about it.
Lexicus
Deity
Thanks; this is about what I figured.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
Doesn't Jeff Sessions have a hobby of burning witches?
As I understand it, the holdout juror was a Trump voter and has appeared in interviews since the trial wearing a MAGA hat. She openly stated that the evidence was overwhelming and that she held out on a few charges purely for political reasons.Also, we learned that the "hung jury" on the other 10 charges was 11-1 in favor of convicting. A single holdout.
Of course, Manafort can be tried again on those charges. He even has another trial coming up on different charges! It's a shame none of it is legitimate
How did she get past voir dire? Did she lie?
Timsup2nothin
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Interesting line from Califonia's double jeopardy law: "No person can be subjected to a second prosecution for a public offense for which he has once been prosecuted and convicted or acquitted." That means that, say, a bank fraud case that has already been prosecuted in federal court can't be retried in state court. Either the feds get the pound of flesh, or they don't, and California respects the verdict.
Oh.
Hey.
Manafort's fraud against a bank headquartered in California...there was no verdict.
@Dachs
The only juror going public I've been able to find is a Trump voter, and does say the evidence was overwhelming...but she isn't the holdout juror and seems a bit annoyed with her. She says that she didn't want Manafort to be guilty, but didn't see any way to not be convinced.
Oh.
Hey.
Manafort's fraud against a bank headquartered in California...there was no verdict.
@Dachs
The only juror going public I've been able to find is a Trump voter, and does say the evidence was overwhelming...but she isn't the holdout juror and seems a bit annoyed with her. She says that she didn't want Manafort to be guilty, but didn't see any way to not be convinced.
Ah. Looks like I conflated a few things. I'm sorry to have impugned Ms. Duncan's integrity.
Wonder who the holdout actually was.
Irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Not so much kidding as engaging in partisan hackery.
Timsup2nothin
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This kind of honesty is what makes you likable despite all the partisan hackery.
@onejayhawk take note.
I'll take that as a no. Thanks for proving my point... which incidentally, isn't "irrelevant to the topic at hand", since the topic at hand is the fact that your arguments can't even stand up to your own subjective personal logic.
Once again your cognitive dissonance has prevented you from answering, which has once again shown your position is... to borrow a friend's phase... bumpkis.
Gori the Grey
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One consideration here is that several of the charges on which he wasn't convicted are conspiracy charges on crimes for which he was convicted. When you got him for tax fraud, I don't know how much is gained by going back and trying to get him on conspiracy to commit bank fraud.
Zkribbler
Deity
I believe the guilt verdicts already rendered mean Manafort will spend the rest of his life in prison. There's no practical reason for piling on.
What about for fun?
