Mueller finds more witches

[Anonymous-Guest]

when this all falls to pieces and the devastating disappointment metastasizes into vitriolic anger and incomprehensible reeee'ing the desperation is surely going to have some folks pretty booty-blasted. should be entertaining.

 

[Lexicus]

The practical reason for piling on, surely, is to implicate other people than Manafort?

 

[Anonymous-Guest]

guaranteed this goes all the way to putin

it's not surprising that trump's cabint is filled with criminals since we all know that it wasn't possible for hillary to lose the election, therefore the only logical explanation is that it was hacked by the kremlin. besides hillary was squeaky clean apart from the insignificant email things, the uranium one propaganda, and the clinton foundation haiti situation where some money went missing among other things. not really anything noteworthy. what i just can't wrap my head around is how people can be so brainwashed and sealed so tightly into their echo chambers that they still chant 'lock her up' on a regular basis. i mean, you have to be literally bat poop insane to believe that some shadowy group or foreign international cabal conspired against your candidate in the last election but that's what they believe all thanks to russian propaganda, greased oligarch palms, paid shills, and russian bots to undermine hillary's candidacy and subvert our election.

 

[metalhead]

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Trump's campaign manager, deputy campaign manager, lawyer, and first National Security Advisor were all felons many times over.

The law abiding always find themselves surrounded by criminals.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The law abiding always find themselves surrounded by criminals.

Surrounded by criminals who address them as "boss," no less. Happens all the time.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The practical reason for piling on, surely, is to implicate other people than Manafort?

The best piling on will be on the Trump family and send them all to jail from which, if they get out, they will return poor without the ability to ever not be poor. Hubris of the Trump family kind should have a heavy price.

 

[Sommerswerd]

The best piling on will be on the Trump family and send them all to jail from which, if they get out, they will return poor without the ability to ever not be poor. Hubris of the Trump family kind should have a heavy price.

Sage words... as true then as they are now.

 

[Commodore]

So, actually finding someone guilty of any criminal offence in the US is significantly more difficult than it would first appear.

Yes, and that's the way it should be. It's supposed to discourage the state from bringing charges against people unless they have an airtight case.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yes, and that's the way it should be. It's supposed to discourage the state from bringing charges against people unless they have an airtight case.

It ain't working. Usually the criteria for whether the state brings charges is "can we throw motions at them until they can't afford to pay their attorney to handle them and they have to get a public defender to plead them out?"

 

[FriendlyFire]

It ain't working. Usually the criteria for whether the state brings charges is "can we throw motions at them until they can't afford to pay their attorney to handle them and they have to get a public defender to plead them out?"

The US has been moving into a two tier justice system for a while, for the lower class its generally quite punishing to go through the court system
For the rich whom have access to bail, access to private lawyers and connections much more likely to get of on charges that poor person is going to be totally screwed by.

For such a high profile case, and with the best lawyers money can buy it would have to be air tight.

exhibit A: OJ Simpson trial
exhibit B: Ethan Couch

 

[metalhead]

Yes, and that's the way it should be. It's supposed to discourage the state from bringing charges against people unless they have an airtight case.

But then they can cross all those high bars, up to and including getting convictions, and then some really smart people can just go ahead and say they aren't legitimate.

Because, you know, America 2018 is being led into the gutter by fools.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Apparently Trump has been quietly revoking the security clearances of everyone who has worked with Mueller in the FBI. There was one or two high-profile individuals that the media picked up on and made a fuss about but many more have had their clearances revoked out of the public eye. He is dismantling the US's security apparatus to protect himself which is exactly what the Russians would want one of their assets to do.

Regardless of whether he is a knowing Russian agent, he is doing their bidding wonderfully.

 

[Hrothbern]

Apparently Trump has been quietly revoking the security clearances of everyone who has worked with Mueller in the FBI. There was one or two high-profile individuals that the media picked up on and made a fuss about but many more have had their clearances revoked out of the public eye. He is dismantling the US's security apparatus to protect himself which is exactly what the Russians would want one of their assets to do.

Regardless of whether he is a knowing Russian agent, he is doing their bidding wonderfully.

You do not need to recruit somebody as an agent, if you can influence his mindset in the right direction with the right set of dogma's.

And I think that the Russian KGB is the best skilled and experienced Intelligence Agency on that field of knowledge since IDK how long. Also imo because they saw those actions of the Active Measures dept as the most important part of their operations.

 

[metatron]

The point being that just because you are getting convictions, doesn't mean those convictions are legitimate. In fact, the fact that Manafort was only convicted on less than half of everything he was charged with should call this whole investigation into question because it shows they are trying to nail people for things they didn't do. They are just shotgun blasting with charges and hoping they can fool a jury into buying into some of them.

Oh really?
Manafort?

The dude worked for the world's most disgusting dictators and warlords. It is quite possible that there was an unspoken understanding among the world's grade A brutes on how viscious you have to be and how many people you have to kill for Paul Manafort to take your call.
His magnum opus though was his work in Ukraine. Let's refresh our memory:

The Ukrainians had themselves a revolution and an election that - halfway - deserved to be called an election.
Then their President got somewhat unhealthy.
(I enjoy finding photos. You're welcome.)
So in 2010 the successful revolutionaries needed a new President and thought it should be the theretofor Prime Minister, you know, the lady with that hair.
She debated an empty podium in the televised presidential debate, because the former dictator trying to get his job back didn't bother to show up.
She lost the, let's say election, by a point or two and the former dictator got back in power.
He and his buddies charged her, show-trialed her, sentenced her to 200 million in damages and a seven year prison term.
They locked her up.
They really did.
I don't know if you are picking up on any familiar themes here.

After the darned people had themselves another revolution and another election the previously "re-elected" dictator and his inner circle and cronies fled to Russia.
Later that year Russia invaded Ukraine.
The plans on Putin's desk included options. To have a good old tank rush to Kiew, decapitate the goverment and effectively conquer the country.
Those options were preempted primarily by effective mobilisation of the Ukrainian military and somewhat high value soldiering all the way from recruit to high officer level.
​

And that's the gang he ran with. Thiefs, murderers, cronies, war crimnals, pieces that call Putin's side of the board their home. People so good at their jobs the 44th President would credit them by name in one executive order after another. People who were in the habit of giving Mr. Manafort big phat piles of money.

Also the dude just plead guilty:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4883336-Paul-Manafort-plea-agreement.html
But maybe he's not a crook, maybe we're jumping to conclusions.

 

[El_Machinae]

...

Commodore, you really want to rethink your PR if you're going to attack legitimacy by using Manafort as an example. Cohen might just be a selfish idiot who got burned by the spotlight. But Manafort, and the playbook he's been playing from (seriously, the reporting on him is rather extensive) ...

This is one of the cases where we're glad we have tax laws that can be enforced.

 

[Farm Boy]

Between this and ag, and steel workers, I'm finding the usages of we an interesting exercise.

 

[El_Machinae]

Between this and ag, and steel workers, I'm finding the usages of we an interesting exercise.

One of the major known differences between (self-declared) Conservatives and Liberals is the relative extension of the 'we'. I can look at a specific situation and very easily track a sense of brotherhood.

In all of your stated examples, I have much more in common with them, and can perceive a win/win arrangement with them, very easily. I'm not truly in a zero-sum conflict with any of those specific cohorts. I will chastise when I see a decision turn into a negative-sum game, so obviously I'll have specific complaints. But that's about it.

I truly believe in the idea of a rising tide raising all boats. That's my goal.

 

[Farm Boy]

Well we and they coexisting over each other sometimes is pretty entertaining.

I do wonder at the price, sometimes, of dialogues that attack the actual frameworks people use to be inclusive rather than being willing to debate within them. I don't think our conserviberals realize it is the inclusivity itself they're going after, much of the time. It's returned on things like feminism, I know, and I'm confident that is morally reprehensibleand counterproductive./tangent