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Never Before Seen Civs - Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Xandinho, Jun 26, 2019.

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  1. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Chieftain

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    @Xandinho Just to be sure, are we only allowed to post if it contains a vote or are we also allowed to make additional posts as long as its about the civs in this list and we don't go crazy with making say 10 posts or so with no vote?

    Armenia - 2 Sorry I can't save you Armenia, in my ideal world with more civ slots I would see no reason why we can't have both Georgia and Armenia in the same game.
    Ashanti - 22
    Burma - 20
    Goths - 4 (7 - 3) I have nothing against this civ and leaders like Theoderic would definitely be cool but eliminating any of the civs from this list has been tough since the start and the competition is fierce among the more unique and interesting civs. I'll just hope that Civ 6 offers more expansions and DLC to give this civ a chance.
    Hebrews - 25
    Italy - 7
    Madagascar - 21
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 17
    Tibet - 20
    Tlingit - 10 (9 + 1) If you like TSL maps, the Tlingit fill a particularly empty region of a particularly empty continent of a particularly empty hemisphere. If you like gameplay potential, the Tlingit have a lot of potential with examples such as no farms, earning relics through peace deals, bonuses to trade, culture, production, fishing boats, hunting camps, etc. If you like stand out leaders, the Tlingit leaders like Shotridge and Katlian offer more than the leaders of other PNW groups in the region and would have characters that are just as unique as their appearances. If you like interesting UU, the Tlingit offer the choices of large ocean-traveling canoes and unique wooden-armored warriors armed with short swords, rifles, and clubs. If you like influential civs, the Tlingit either raided or traded with most of the North American west coast and have perhaps the most recognizable native architecture and art style north of the Mesoamerican empires. This would definitely be in my top 3 Native American civs and should definitely be higher on this list.
    Vietnam - 18
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  2. EdmundIronside

    EdmundIronside Chieftain

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    It was a game made by some guy called Sid Meier! It was also one of the expansions for Civ 4. Maya weren't included likely due to the game starting in 1492. There certainly have been some passionate arguments made for the inclusion of the Tlingit, and I respect that. They certainly could make an interesting inclusion, however I think most civs with the correct creative could be made interesting. So for me it comes back to historical significance. As the civilization on the Elimination thread list I at the start judged to be perhaps the second least important in this respect, they have for me over stayed their welcome. I could think of 11 native American civs yet to be included in Civ 6 that I would be more interested in (Arawak, Carib, Tupi, Navajo, Cherokee, Pueblos, Iroquois, Maya, Sioux, Olmec, Apache, - and yes I am biased towards those featured in Colonization)!

    Armenia - 2
    Ashanti - 22
    Burma - 20
    Goths - 4
    Hebrews - 25
    Italy - 8 (7+1) = Could represent the important city states of Venice and Genoa who were pretty powerful in Medieval times (especially Venice), as well as modern Italy. Plus this list looks like it soon not going to have any European (in addition to no South American) civs in the top 8.
    Madagascar - 21
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 17
    Tibet - 20
    Tlingit - 7 (10-3) = see above.
    Vietnam - 18
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  3. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Armenia - 2
    Ashanti - 22
    Burma - 20
    Goths - 4
    Hebrews - 25-3=22. For all their religious importance and influence on western culture they were a very minor power in the region. To include them ahead of Assyria, Babylon or the Hittites seems wrong to me.
    Italy - 8
    Madagascar - 21+1=22. Its a pretty hard choice between 3 African civs that have never appeared in the game before and all deserve to, but Madagascar seems the most unusual to me.
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 17
    Tibet - 20
    Tlingit - 7
    Vietnam - 18
     
  4. Leucarum

    Leucarum Chieftain

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    It is a great game, but it is a game about colonizing the new world which inexplicably managed to omit Portugal (They only colonized half a continent, no biggie). I dunno how good a guide it is TBH...
     
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  5. Xandinho

    Xandinho Warlord

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    @TahamiTsunami, I think there are no problems in posts out of the game, the problem is when they become many and deviate from the focus of the thread.

    Armenia - 2
    Ashanti - 23 (22+1) Yaa Asantewaa would be an interesting female leader. Ashanti is the number one African civ never seen before on my list of priorities.
    Burma - 20
    Goths - 4
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 8
    Madagascar - 22
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 17
    Tibet - 20
    Tlingit - 4 (7-3) I'm not particularly keen on this, the list is thin now and we're starting to go for personal preferences.
    Vietnam - 18
     
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  6. Amrunril

    Amrunril Warlord

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    Armenia - 2
    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 20
    Goths - 1 (4+3) Perhaps more interesting option than another modern European civm but I don't think its worth choosing over another American or African civ.
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 8
    Madagascar - 22
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 17
    Tibet - 20
    Tlingit - 5 (4 + 1) In addition to its cultural distinctiveness, I think it has a lot of potential for interesting mechanics. Most of the ideas from the Haida design in my signature could apply equally well to the Tlingit.
    Vietnam - 18
     
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  7. SagarRathore

    SagarRathore Chieftain

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    Armenia - 0 (Eliminated) Georgia is already there.
    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 20
    Goths - 1
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 8
    Madagascar - 22
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 17
    Tibet - 21( 20+1) I want to fill the gap between India and China on TSL map and Tibet played a very key role in protecting and promoting Mahayana Buddhism after it's decline in Indian subcontinent and today because of Tibetan Buddhism adoption by Yuan majority of Mongolians are Buddhist(Chinese should be thankful for that)
    Tlingit - 5
    Vietnam - 18
     
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  8. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Warlord

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    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 20
    Goths - 1-3= Eliminated. If Italy isn't going to win it should be the top European civ and make the top 10 in my opinion.
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 8+1=9 When I say I want Italy I don't want it to focus on modern day unified Italy, like someone had said. I'd like an Italy that makes a civilization out of the Italian city-states from the medieval/Renaissance period. It would look like the way it currently works with Greece with having a leader/leaders from Florence, Venice, Genoa Milan etc.
    Madagascar - 22
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 17
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 5
    Vietnam - 18
     
  9. Leucarum

    Leucarum Chieftain

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    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 20
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 9
    Madagascar - 22
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 18 (17 + 1) It shows how euro-centric civ has been that there is a distinct lack of interesting european civs in the top 10 while a bunch of interesting african/asian/first nations are still hanging around. I'm gonna throw a plus to Swahili. Africa doesn't have a naval civ yet and while either they or madagascar could fit this bill I like the trade angle these guys could throw at it.
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 5
    Vietnam - 15 (18 - 3) Honestly I'd rather vote for Italy but I respect the arguments people have made for its inclusion (important civ, no way to fit all the renaissance city states in one game) so I'll throw them a bone this round. Which means, sorry Vietnam. You're a civ I would probably play, but you wouldn't top my list and we're at the stage where almost all the candidates are pretty good.
     
  10. TeddyMain

    TeddyMain Chieftain

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    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 20
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 9
    Madagascar - 18 (22-3) If we were to have an African naval civ, the Swahili would be a better fit, considering their much greater influence and legacy. Not to diss Madagascar, they would be quite a unique civ, but the Swahili's impressive trade networks put them above Madagascar IMO.
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 19 (18+1) The opportunity for an African naval civ best fits the Swahili, with some nod to their massive trade networks. It should be represented as the same way people have proposed Italy's representation, as a congregation of medieval city states.
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 5
    Vietnam - 15
     
  11. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Chieftain

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    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 20
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 9
    Madagascar - 16 (19 - 3) - There is a complicated knot to untie between Burma, Tibet, and Vietnam, but one thing I am certain of is that I would rather have the Swahili over Madagascar. I haven't seen a really compelling argument for it to be anything more than a city state and it has likely survived longer than it should have.
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 20 (19 + 1) - Fumo Liyongo could pass as a leader, and if we don't get Morocco they could also incorporate some Omani influence.
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 5
    Vietnam - 15
     
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  12. The Kingmaker

    The Kingmaker Alexander

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    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 20
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 9+1=10 Would love to see a renaissance-themed Italy with leaders for the different city-states like they did with Greece.
    Madagascar - 16-3=13 These choices are difficult, and I think I want all of the other options more.
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 20
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 5
    Vietnam - 15
     
  13. Itsjustanick

    Itsjustanick Chieftain

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    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 20
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 10-3=7 Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again! This alternate leader's idea is nice indeed, but putting them as "Italy" might be a little weierd, even throgh they form one nation today. I mean Piemonts ,Genoa, Tuscany or Papal States may look simmilar, but they have some many differences. Even more than Sparta and Athens. I know I overuse the TSL maps arguement, but introduction of (most of) Italian city-states would made huge cluster even if there were only two of them. This would be even bigger disaster if we were talking about modern day Italy It's better to introduce one city-state-civlilization than some blob. So no Alexander's Hetaroi, IMO it shouln't be even in top 20. I'm suprised it was even put on list of these civs.
    Madagascar - 13
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 20
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 5
    Vietnam - 15+1=16 We need more naval powers outside of Europe. In addition, Georgia seems to be only defensive civ in the game (with pretty bad abilities0 so we need more and Vietnam is probably one of the best choices.
     
  14. TahamiTsunami

    TahamiTsunami Chieftain

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    @Xandinho Thank you, I just wanted to make sure before doing it. If I do it I'll be sure to stay on topic and not message a ton if it can be avoided.

    @EdmundIronside I do appreciate learning about the Colonization game, I'll be sure to check it out sometime if I can! However, as @Leucarum said, its omitting of several powerful and notable groups makes it arguably clear that it shouldn't be seen as a guide to who were the greatest NA civs ever. Of course I agree that any civ should be made to be interesting with the right creative choices behind it, but I firmly believe the Tlingit have more obvious design potential. Regardless, I do respect your opinion if you simply don't like them and prefer others, it would sound pretty authoritarian of me to say we all need to like the same exact things!

    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 20
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 4 (7 - 3) I have nothing against them and I would like to see them if we had more slots. However, between all these interesting and significant civs that offer just as much in terms of significance and game design, I'm going to vote for the ones that are already struggling to get any kind of representation at all. I'd rather not give any Firaxis employees who could be watching this more reasons to think that just 1-2 native NA civs or 5 African civs is enough.
    Madagascar - 13
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 20
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 6 (5 + 1) I didn't even know about this tribe at all when I was first on these forums, but, after hearing about them from some of the other members and digging into them on my own, they quickly rose to being my favorite for a never before seen civ! As an interesting little historical story, the 1st American governor/commander of Alaska was a man named Jefferson Columbus Davis who was most famous for killing his superior Union officer during the Civil War and for having a similar name to that other Jefferson Davis. His eagerness to be an 'Indian fighter' in the west showed that he had a rather....low opinion of most Native Americans. But when he encountered the Tlingit, he begrudgingly admitted to having respect for them since "They were not the kind of Indians he expected at all. He praised their industry, and their intelligence, and above all, their respect for the law, which was incredibly important for him.” I'm not saying that this should be the reason for their inclusion, but if a guy that thinks poorly of most natives can see their value than there has to be something noteworthy there. They were historically significant for their domination of most of the North American west coast and for having a native architecture and art style that is only matched by the Mesoamerican empires farther south. Combined with having probably the coolest UU option from this list (I'd certainly like to hear about the UUs some of these other civs could have), I have a hard time believing that other groups like the Cherokee or Apache (not to say that they can't be interesting) are somehow more interesting or unique. Even for the Navajo, who I would love to see get in the game, I would be hard pressed to argue why they are more worthy than the Tlingit. Whether you vote them up or down, I'm hoping that at the very least I was able to introduce some people to this uniquely significant civ and show how they are worthy of consideration. Perhaps if there was ever a poll on native NA civs to include some people here might remember the Tlingit and their accomplishments. Regardless, I still believe these guys are worthy of a much higher place on here so I'll continue to keep voting for them
    Vietnam - 16
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  15. 679x

    679x Chieftain

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    I'm sad to see Madagascar getting three downvotes in a row but I understand why.

    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 17 (20-3) I'd prefer Vietnam. That's... that's really all I have to say.
    Hebrews - 22
    Italy - 4
    Madagascar - 13
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 20
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 6
    Vietnam - 17 (16+1) Like @Itsjustanick said, Georgia is the only defensive civ in the game and most people agree it's not a great civ (unfortunately) and Vietnam would be a decent candidate for another defensive civ. Perhaps they could be also be culturally-driven with some sort of food bonuses, and maybe something like a higher city population increasing the strength of allied units within its borders.
     
  16. EdmundIronside

    EdmundIronside Chieftain

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    I certainly agree about Portugal, their omission really bugged me. They seem to never get enough love from the civ series, frequently being left out (but now I am in danger of getting really off topic)!

    Well I may not have changed my mind about them, but I do now know more about the Tlingit than when I started this thread! As I have down voted them 4 times in a row, I think I should maybe give them a break, at least this time.

    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 17
    Hebrews - 23 (22+1) They are an interesting civ to make a case for. Any civilization whose case is based on religion primarily is always potentially controversial. As has been mentioned, they were not an important civilization in ancient times (I could name many more important ancient middle eastern civs). But I think this misses the point. Most people have heard of the Hebrews/Israelites, while many less may have heard of the Mittani, Sumerians, Assyrians, Hittites, etc. They are very important to the Abrahamic religions, and through them have left a very large legacy. Whether or not you think they should have been held in such high esteem, is another issue, but they clearly have been considered by subsequent civilizations to have been important. Plus I think they would work well as a primarily religion based civ, with also maybe some good defensive features.
    Italy - 4
    Madagascar - 10 (13-3) Were they an important ancient civilization? No. Were they an important medieval civilization? No. Are they an important modern civilization? No. Did their civilization have a global influence? No. Did their civilization have a regional influence? No. Are they historically important? No. Do they have a strong legacy? No. Is there anything about their culture which makes them very unique? Not really, not anymore than regional rivals. Should they be added to Civ 6? No!
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 20
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 6
    Vietnam - 17
     
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  17. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 17
    Hebrews - 24 (23+1) Civ VI has a religious victory. Hebrew faith forms the basis of three Abrahamic faiths, and continues to be strong to this day. That aside, Hebrews have a fascinating history of being the underdog in a region dominated by Hittites, Babylon, and Assyria, and their fascinating revolt against Assyria deserves some mention. Hezekiah would be an interesting leader for them—aside from his defensive constructions, reformation of the faith, and his diplomatic alliances with Egypt and others in his revolt, there is strong archaeological evidence for him that matches the biblical story, so it would not be controversial to use him over say Solomon or other Muslim prophets.
    Italy - 1 (4-3) (Frankly it’s ridiculous they got this far. People upvoting a civ that’s already had multiple bites of the representation apple at the cost of all these other fascinating African, American, Asian, Near Eastern civs that have never been in Civ in any form just makes me sad. At least Italy got Venice in Civ V, and Rome everywhere else! #civsowhite)
    Madagascar - 10
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 20
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 6
    Vietnam - 17
     
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  18. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Ashanti - 23
    Burma - 17
    Hebrews - 24-3=21. Minor power. Given how poorly Civ VI religious victory is formulated its not an argument for including anybody.
    Italy - 1 . I'm not going to waste a vote on trying to save Italy but they aren't represented by Rome. Italy was a mixture of Latin, Germanic, Norman and Arabic influences and had little in common with Rome.
    Madagascar - 10+1=11. Given the uniqueness of their being settled from the Malay archipelago and having an entirely different agricultural system to the rest of Africa I can't see how people can say that there is nothing about them that is unique.
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 20
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 6
    Vietnam - 17
     
  19. Cave Johnson

    Cave Johnson Chieftain

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    Ashanti - 24 Those guys were very powerful and influential in their time and furthermore left behind a vast cultural heritage.
    Burma - 17
    Hebrews - 18 Frankly, not interested in them very much. They obviously had their influence, but I don't see them getting their own civ slot.
    Italy - 1
    Madagascar - 11
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 20
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 6
    Vietnam - 17
     
  20. Amrunril

    Amrunril Warlord

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    Ashanti - 24
    Burma - 17
    Hebrews - 15 (18 - 3) Obviously of colossal religious importance, but its geopolitical position in the ancient world is more or less exactly what the city state mechanics were designed to emulate.
    Italy - 1
    Madagascar - 11
    Navajo - 23
    Swahili - 20
    Tibet - 21
    Tlingit - 7 (6 + 1) For all the previously stated reasons.
    Vietnam - 17
     
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