pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Siam

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Interesting, what was missing from what you wanted?

I have to wait till i've play the real game.
to me... Wonder choice is quite off. Doi Suthep is associated with Lanna Kingdom and built long before Siam annexed Lanna (by diplomacy). There are better choices located by Menam basin.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Given their start bias... Presumably these guys are unlocked by having access to elephants...

Or walruses.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Does this mean you instantly upgrade a Independent people to a City-State?

Not sure but this reflects Continental Southeast Asian regional politics. There were Three Kings: Siam (Ayutthaya to Rattanakosin), Burma (Hanthawaddy and Kaungbaung), and Dai Viet (Particularly Nguyen era). Vassalage is preferred over outright conquests, this due to the fact that these giants (except Dai Viets) had 'too much landmasses, too few men'. Taking a city or kingdom is one thing, Maintaining your grip over conquered domains is another (and very difficult if you have chronic manpower shortages.
This geopolitic system is called 'Galaxy System'.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Seems like the Bang is a floating market!

EDIT: Oh wait, Andrew already said so. Anyway, here's the model.
View attachment 715150

This explains the central region. though these were actually more modern versions. since peasantry could not afford this elegant roofs and facades like this, even if it's not illegal, it is still an archetectural taboo here.
This golden facade building is (or should be) Wat, which each settlement (Bang) has and serves a function of basic religious service. or might be an elite's house.
Roof is still off to me though, porcelaine shingles only became available to underclasses after The Great Emancipation at mid Rama V's reign. and color is still off to me, terracotta orange or red are preferred, green rarey used here.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Re: Itsaraphab.

Lonecat's right, there's the mandala system (the "galactic polity" in OW Wolter's definition) where a city and king exerts partial influence over another city, which might also be swayed by another neighbor. But what happened in the late 19th century is that Siam attempted to take all places that were of partial loyatly and incorporate them into a modern nation-state in the name of "freedom" (itsaraphab) from colonial powers. That's this mechanism.

Re: Doi Suthep.

Yes, Doi Suthep is from one of these border states - Lanna, a place (that Lonecat knows well!) that was potentially Siamese, potentially Burmese, or potentially independent. I thought this was an interesting nod to that, as to have a wonder from the very center of power (e.g. the Grand Palace) would feel strange if another civ built it. Here, it gravitates towards Siam, but is not limited to Siam. Doi Suthep is built earlier, but I'm thinking here of the expansion and construction of the road to it, especially under Khuba Siwichai.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Assembling the list of uparat was fun. People who know will note that some of these aren't technically uparat, but I took some liberties in the list both to capture the later end of the time frame and also include some other notable figures. An uparat is a high official, "viceroy," but here it's a little expanded to point at particular aspects of Siamese politics and life. We have Dara Rasmi, a princess of Lanna (Chiang Mai) whose presence in the royal palace cemented Siamese control over the North, we have Pridi and Phibun, the two architects of modern Thailand, one of whom leaned democratic and the other authoritarian, but both of whom embraced a new nationalist order and a break from the bureaucratic absolute monarchy of the past.

History buffs will also note that much of the architecture and design here is Fifth Reign Siam (roughly equal to Victorian Britain), an era of modernization, industrialization, and the consolidation of Siamese power.

Basically I don't see 'Chuang Bunnag' who's technically a viceroy and regent to (then) young King Chulalongkorn. he might intended to be PC leader even now or expansions.

 

[Josephias]

I understand there may not be 100% relation, but having the Bang be a non-building unique quarter… might it double down as a Railway station (that is also a single-building urban district?)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I understand there may not be 100% relation, but having the Bang be a non-building unique quarter… might it double down as a Railway station (that is also a single-building urban district?)

It's an improvement, not a quarter. That was a typo.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The Bang seems... underwhelming? It doesn't improve with any civics as well. So, it's main reason in Age 3 is to pay for specialist maintenance?
I didn't expect Great People for Siam. And I know why. Looking at the list, I have to admit to my shame that I don't know any of them.

Looking forward to my "get the most out of city states" game in which I am going to use Siam.

it looks too luxurious to my likings of folk's life. But wooden shringles were given to Khmer so this archetecture is chosen.
and Green is not preferred roof color here. but it is also used .. simply not common.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

That's a really neat UA

 

[Trengilly]

Chang Beun - A Ranged unit with Increased Movement . . . that can move after attacking!?!

Wouldn't that be the ultimate Kiting unit? Fire and run away . . . repeat until enemies are dead?

That seems like a highly exploitable unit . . . the AI isn't going to stand any chance!

 

[Hawke9]

This is looking to be my favorite civ in the modern age, partly because of the really fun abilities, but mostly because of just how aesthetically pleasing the bang improvement looks

Can't wait to mass-build them in my river -based Siamese cities

 

[Zaarin]

Chang Beun - A Ranged unit with Increased Movement . . . that can move after attacking!?!

Wouldn't that be the ultimate Kiting unit? Fire and run away . . . repeat until enemies are dead?

That seems like a highly exploitable unit . . . the AI isn't going to stand any chance!

Bonus humor because "speed" is not a trait I associate with elephants.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Bonus humor because "speed" is not a trait I associate with elephants.

For most of history using animal and legpower...Endurance = Speed at a strategic level.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Google says: Fastest human (Usain Bolt), 28mph (at the very fastest single moment of his race). Elephant (just standard elephant) 25 mph.

I know I wouldn't want to try to outrun a charging one! Since I have solid reasons for believing I'm not as fast as Usain Bolt (though I have never raced him, so it's technically an open question).

 

[thecrazyscot]

Quick googling indicates that elephants can reach 40mph:

Despite their size, they are actually pretty nimble and can walk up to 195 km per day, although they usually only average is only 25 km on a daily basis. They can also run faster than you would expect, easily reaching speeds of 40 mph, which is a lot faster than us humans can run.

EDIT: I think that's a typo on the website, though - everything else I've seen says ~40 kph or ~25 mph

EDITEDIT: Facing down an elephant charge is terrifying enough...can you imagine the bowel-emptying madness of experiencing a wall of enraged elephants sprinting at you at 40 f-ing miles per hour

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I don't think I would call an elephant slow when it's charging at me.

 

[Zaarin]

TBF the comparison I was making was not to humans but to horses and vehicles.

 

[thecrazyscot]

TBF the comparison I was making was not to humans but to horses and vehicles.

My pedantry cannot be contained

 

[gdr_willter]

Bonus humor because "speed" is not a trait I associate with elephants.

Speedy elephant is quite reasonable when it is ranged unit, not cavalry unit. It is faster than human but slower than horse.