New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Abaddon]

Moderator Action: Take to OT
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Done...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=310183

 

[Lord_Iggy]

PROBING INTEREST: D&D-based Fantasy NES, nothing too fancy.

Boardgamer rules for economy, arcane calculations and judgment calls for military, players play single people who rule places and other people (no adventurers and magic-users).

The setting will be a real-word-analog-ish fantasy map, right after the death of the Hegemon of some Greek-Macedon-ripoffflavored empire (which also sports some elements from Charles the Big and our old friends, the Romans).

Players could choose to be one of the generals or governors from the recently leaderless empire, or some local leader from the faraway provinces (which will have stereotyped Arabic-Egyptian-Persian elements in the East, Other-African and islander elements in the South, stereotyped medieval fantasy and English elements in the North, and evil barbarians and dragons and stuff in the West, with some stereotyped Eastern European elements).

BEGIN THE PROBING.

---

I post the above in rebellion against all the "ideas" threads (with or without polls) floating around. If the moderators are going to crack down on WWW (ooh, look, I broke the forum rules just by talking about it! Hah, tricky, eh? But in the spirit of CFC's Legalism, I guess that's a warning/ban for me!), I propose that they crack down on all the threads floating around whose intents and purposes are covered by this meta-thread!

---

NERFSNES got too unwieldy for me because I didn't put rules for stories. I'm saying it now: I hate your stories, NWAG3. Their lack of specificity and conclusions in an already free-form world broke my mind.

I approve of both your posting of the idea here and your idea. Good stuff.

Done...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=310183

Hmm, the link seems to be broken.

 

[Turner]

Yes, because the thread has been deleted.

Moving on.....

 

[Arian]

Just wondering if there ever has been a Star Trek NES?

 

[Ninja Dude]

FC, I'm interested in your NES, and will join it once it starts.

 

[flyingchicken]

I'm not the best person to write a quick writing guide -- not just for stories, but in general -- and I'd like to see one for the NESing community, so I'll try to write one if nobody takes this up. Ideally, it would cover the basic steps of editing and proofreading, the value of emphasis and formatting, notes on unity and usage, tips on getting the most out of dictionaries and thesauruses, maybe a little bit devoted to story writing, and appropriate links.

No doubt some of you will call any guide on writing "elitist" or "snobbish." I'd like to clarify here and now that it won't be imposing anything; though for me, it'll be great if people would follow its advice -- actually, any advice -- on spelling and grammar, which really should have been taken to heart since college.

Personaly, its disgusting when people dont care about this stuff, or dont even try to better there writing when they could of, even with the basics. Saying "it's the Internet," "I'm not a native speaker," or "Being understood is what's important" is no excuse for looking dumb, either in purpose or out of neglect. We're a community (online, but a community nonetheless), and God knows that blubbering incoherently to inconvenience your peers is stuck in your bizarre fantasies.

I'd go on about JSTOR being accessible through the Internet, or me not being a native speaker but at least caring about my use of English, or understanding is eased when everyone speaking has good command of the language, but I've already made my points and used your time.

---

Apologies to you if I'm being a prick. I dunno. It's just that I'm thinking that NESes, and stories in general, cannot survive on ideas alone; they need strong grounding in the proper use of languages they're told in, which is English in the case of NESing.

---

Screw that, most of you write good English. I'm just feeling a whole lot of frustration at the moment, frustration about a whole lot of things. I'm directing the DARK ENERGY it brings at the most inappropriate things.

DARK ENERGY.

 

[Jason The King]

I'd like some feedback on these rules for an upcoming NES. The NES will take place during the late iron age. I am also thinking of doing a fresh start NES on a random map, for which I will do a long BT to establish nations into the Iron Age, and then use these rules. Suggestions?

Some other points of real concern to me are:

1. the actual usage of the economic system. Should I simplify it/return to the basics of a single income with bonuses given to special cities?

2. the trade mission rule. Will this work, or does it need further refining?

3. do people prefer the army to be split into "armies", kept as it is with actual raw number, or maybe rounded to a more simple number, like "8 thousand"?

4. population stat has no real place in the rules, its just eye candy. Keep it or leave it?

5. upkeep for domestic things as a part of the economic system. Should there be a hard number you must have in a particular stat? For example, in order to have a "Adequate" infrastructure, must you have x amount of unspent EP in the domestic tab of the economy?

6. do people like the fact that most stats have words to describe them instead of numbers, or does it just get too confusing (having to refer back to what is better then, say, adequate)?

Thanks for your input

Spoiler :

JNES: Civilizations 2


Republic of Canfre
Player:
Government: Republic ruled by single-house Senate
Capital: Rome
Economy: Stagnant, 8 EC
- Military: 2
- Commercial: 4
- Domestic: 2
Population: 12,320,100
Education: Late Iron Age/Educated (3)
Infrastructure: Adequate (3)
Culture: Established
Army: 34,020 footmen, 3,300 mounted, 12 catapults
Quality: 6
Navy: 1 quinquereme, 4 quadriremes, 35 triremes
Quality: 6
Stability: 82%
Wonders: Great Library of Rome
Top Trading Partners: Troy, Andalusia, Venice


Government

The form of government a nation has can profoundly shape the way it develops and the attitudes of its people. Each government type has its obvious advantages and disadvantages. For example, a republic whose legislative body is continually elected and changed will have problems implementing long-term programs and solutions, while being quite adept at appeasing the people and keeping a happy nation. A monarchy, on the other hand, will have the ability to react to events and implement programs more efficiently and quickly, while suffering from dissent, especially if it is an unpopular monarch. These are not binding rules to follow, there will be exceptions where a people love their monarch more then a different people love their senate, it really is relative to each nation. And there isn't exactly an enlightened people who believe in unalienable rights at this time either.

Dynasties and legislatures

Dynasties are necessary for a monarchy, and change according to the story of a nation. Individual rulers will not be shown in the stats, thats left up to your stories, but overall dynasties will be present. There could be the case where multiple nations share the same dynasty, in this case they are royal families ruling over multiple nations. This is perfectly acceptable and can be a great way to "vassalize" countries or simple ties the knots of an alliance even tighter.

As for legislatures, it is important to indicate what kind of legislature rules a nation, as they vary in type. For example, a republic that has just a senate which is elected by wealthy male citizens will have a different public reaction then a bicameral legislature elected by popular sovereignty. Both have implications for a nation as well, whether the wealthy elite or the masses will support a government or not is very crucial to retaining stability.

Economy

Perhaps the most important aspect of a nation is its economy. I have adapted EQ's IC system used in A Brave New World for use in this NES, since it did seem to work very well and was a very simple system to use. In this NES though, Industrial Capacity as a means of economic measurement is unfitting, and so I will use the term Economic Capacity instead, or EC. Since EC does not really have a monetary value, you are not able to trade or bank EC, everything must be used/assigned every turn. It is a measurement of your economic power, it is not tax revenue. If you want to send money to another nation, simple state a monetary value, and EC will be adjusted accordingly. In addition to the EC number, the economy stat also includes a description, either recession, stagnant or growing. This indicates the healthiness of a nation's economy. Generally one would want the economy to be continually growing, even at a slow pace. This does not mean next turn the EC will be increased, it just means its growing.

Each nation has three categories to which EC can be assigned. Within each category you can direct the usage of the EC. All of these tie in together with each other, creating the economic power and influence of a nation.

Military

Military EC is the EC a nation can spend directly on military units each turn. It also helps gauge the quality of a nation's military. The more EC one has invested into the military, the better quality of military one can have. Though other considerations are taken to determine the quality of a nation's military (more on training below). The following is a list of military units available for purchase with military EC:

1 thousand footmen (swordsmen, slingers, pikemen, and any other melee force you can think of): 1 EC
5 hundred mounted (basic mounted soldiers, equipped with swords or javelins): 2 EC
10 catapults (only real practical siege weapons of the age): 2 EC

Late Iron Age Navy:

5 triremes (mainstay of a sea/river/lake navy, equipped with oars and sails, fast and maneuverable): 1 EC
3 quadriremes (4-layered decks, large yet slow and not as maneuverable as a trireme; good as a flagship): 1 EC
1 quinqueremes (5 layers, very large with big hull, completely sail-powered, good for use in hostile seas and oceans): 2 EC

Merchant fleet and reserves:
In addition to a standing army and fleet, a nation also has extra supplies to draw upon should circumstance warrant. The availability and amount of these resources are dependent upon each nation, and a leader really never has a solid number of availability until they are called up (not shown in the stats). Generally a nation with stronger commercial tendencies and an active trading community will have a larger merchant marine, and therefore a bigger pool in which to pull ships from in time of need. Same goes with higher-populated nations: they will have a larger reserve base for the army. Of course leaders will surely think of creative ways in which to call up more warriors, such as forcing slaves, women, POWs, or frontier savages to fight for them.Calling upon the merchant fleet or working reserves will have an affect on the populace attitude as well as economy.

Quality:
This stat is not directly influenced by a player, but instead is a result of the amount of EP invested into the military, its size, the age in which a nation is, and the experience it has had. Quality refers to the quality of weapons, fighting ability of the individual soldier and units as a whole, and the skills and abilities of the generals/admirals of a nation. Quality is very hard to increase, it must be accomplished through long-range plans and spending.

Other Military Spending and Notes:
The larger a military is, chances are the worse the quality (unless the military EC stat is increasing as well). So be aware that, while a nation does receive military points each turn, it may not be a good idea to continually buy troops. Military points may also be spent on things like forts, wonders, or just reinvesting into the military (thus adding to the quality over the long-run).

Commercial

Commercial EC represents the amount of economic power a nation has devoted towards trade. Hallmarks of a highly commercialized economy are large urban centers with a diverse population and access to important trade routes (whether they be overland or oversea). If access to such trade routes is lacking or if the population of a nation is such that the people prefer countryside leaving urban centers small, it may not be a good idea to invest much in the commercial category because it won't make much of an impact. A highly commercialized citizen base will also be much more resistant to expansionist wars which interfere with trade, and will tend to cause more problems if you act against their interests. Later, large families or companies may rise to richness, challenging a ruler's legitimacy to rule.

Investment in the commercial category, though, is a good way to boost a nation's economy. Commerce attracts wealth to a nation, and will indeed affect the economy in the long-run. A higher commercialized economy will also boost of a high supply of merchant marine ships, in which to call into service when confronted with an enemy and need reinforcements.

Trade Missions:
Commercial points may also be spent on what are known as "trade missions." These are missions funded by a government to travel to far off lands (must be specified!) through a known route (which you can customize, if you wish). This basically simulates the large trade missions funded by rulers of ancient kingdoms to foreign lands. The cost of a single trade missing varies, depending on how far the mission must travel, how well equipped it is, and how much goods it is to carry. For example, a trade mission funded by 2EP that might lead a mission from one nation to a neighboring nation may be sufficient, since 2EP is plenty to provide for goods, escorts, sturdy ships, etc. Though a missing that is to travel thousands of miles, through many different lands (and paying many different taxes) may cost a good deal more (upwards of 5EP?). So what do trade missions do? Depending on how successful they are, they do provide wealth to your people, increase contacts and influence in other nations, and an increase in the commercial feeling of a people. There may be as many trade missions going on at the same time as one wishes, and will be marked in the stats (with the funding of the mission in parentheses). Remember, investing in trade missions takes away from what would normally be spent in upkeeping the commercial activities of a nation.

Infrastructure: See infrastructure stat under "Domestic."

Domestic

The domestic stat is quite simply the stat the is most like the revenues of a nation. This represents the amount of wealth being spent and invested in the infrastructure, education, and upkeep of a nation. For example, a highly-modernized and clean society will definitely need a high domestic stat.

Education:
Domestic points may be spent on building schools, libraries, temples, and other education services for a nation in order to boost the literacy and intelligence of a people. To literally increase the education stat, a player must pay the amount in parentheses plus one to get to the next level. A high education stat will require a higher number of unspent domestic points each turn to upkeep it, or else it will fall down to a natural level supported by the domestic stat. Be sure to think critically of what a lower-educated and higher-educated populace can mean. Because an education stat represent the average of all the citizens of a nation, be aware that even a low stat can mean there is a small, educated elite running a country. In general, a lower-educated people are usually more content, less of a nuisance, and less likely to organize revolts. A higher-educated populace are more prone to revolts, rebellion, and challenges to a regime. But, a high-educated people means a more enlightened society, which also means more chance of an age upgrade or technological discoveries. The education stat includes an adjective, listed in order as follows:

None (0) - Barbaric (1) - Uneducated (2) - Educated (3) - Informed (4) - Civilized (5) - Intellectual (6) - Philosophical

Also with each stat will be the age in which a nation is. The "age" corresponds to the widespread use of a certain tool, material, idea, and/or norm of society. Advancing to the next age will come based upon the education stat and events in the world. When the age is increase, education drops two levels, and army quality drops two levels.

Infrastructure:
Just like education, the higher the infrastructure level of a nation, the more a player must have resting in the domestic stat. The stat itself refers to the amount and quality of public service structures (not including military/defense structures) such as sewers, harbors, roads, marketplaces, etc. This stat really is a full-breadth kind of stat, having influence on just about every stat in a nation (can't have a commercialized society without markets and harbor, for example), and because of this both commercial and domestic points may be spent to increase/upkeep this stat. The stats are as follows, and follow the same basic system as the education stat.

None (0) - Crumbling (1) - Sparse (2) - Adequate (3) - Plentiful (4) - Abundant (5) - Modern (6) - World Class

Culture:
Culture is very important in this NES. It is the measure of how expandable a nation's influence is over a foreign people. A larger culture leads to the spreading of a nation's religion, language, and customs, among other aspects, inside and outside a nation's borders. This leads to more influence in surrounding nations, the faster expansion into barbaric lands, and the overall stability of one's nation. Increasing the culture stat does take many centuries, and really can be done in a myriad of different ways. One can aggresively expand its culture by conquering and forcebly imposing its culture on others. One can build mighty wonders (one of the most effective), establish centralized and organized religions, send missionaries, etc. Also what really helps a nation's culture, perhaps more than anything else, is stories. Here are the levels of culture:

None - Vague - Established - Civilized - Broadening - Influential - Advanced - Glorified - Unrivaled

Stability

This, like infrastructure, is an all-encompassing stat. The higher the stability is in a nation, the better. Once stability starts to drop, confidence begins to fade, and one may be faced with coups, civil wars, or worse. Keep stability high by suppressing your people or doing things they like.

Wonders

Wonders are finally back in the game. These are monolithic structures (not projects, which don't have a stat) that surpass conventional buildings. They can include huge temples, burial sites, colossal forts, or just about anything one can think of. Depending what the structure actually is (fort vs. canal vs. temple) will determine from what category EP must be spent, and how much (note: it can require EP from mulitple categories). Depending on what the wonder is, it will provide a nation with benefits directly related to the structure. If it is a religious structure that brings millions of pilgramages, one might expect both a cultural and an economic boost. If it is a university or library, one can expect an education boost, etc.

 

[Terrance888]

This might be OOC:

(Darn! I wish that WWW is still here!)

I think a

quinqueremes

is a 3 Decked warship with 2 Rowers on top oar and Middle oar and 1 Rower on the bottem oar in a cross section on one side. They are slower than quadriremes but can hold more people. Here is a Wiki link. Quadriremes
Quinqueremes and Polyremes

Also, I hope that smaller ships can be represented, as well as Mercenares in some degree and if possible in huge lands (Roman Empire, Persian Empire) MAYBE have a few players other than one due to their massive power to hold it down a little like Provines. Rome would have 3 players. (Imperial: Italy, Iberia, North africa, Eastern: Byzantine: Northern Gaul/Britian. Imperial give basic and overall directiona nd other players direct their factions, maybe this can happen to reduce maintainance)

Other than that, very good. Population is usefull but it IS eyecandy. (yum) Perhaps just wordstats or rounded to help calculate how many people you can hire before your economy collaspes. Also usefull to calculate war damages.

Very good. Better than any of mine. I will definally play this.

I like all your NESes to date that I played in.

 

[Azale]

I'd like some feedback on these rules for an upcoming NES. The NES will take place during the late iron age. I am also thinking of doing a fresh start NES on a random map, for which I will do a long BT to establish nations into the Iron Age, and then use these rules. Suggestions?

Some other points of real concern to me are:

1. the actual usage of the economic system. Should I simplify it/return to the basics of a single income with bonuses given to special cities?

2. the trade mission rule. Will this work, or does it need further refining?

3. do people prefer the army to be split into "armies", kept as it is with actual raw number, or maybe rounded to a more simple number, like "8 thousand"?

4. population stat has no real place in the rules, its just eye candy. Keep it or leave it?

5. upkeep for domestic things as a part of the economic system. Should there be a hard number you must have in a particular stat? For example, in order to have a "Adequate" infrastructure, must you have x amount of unspent EP in the domestic tab of the economy?

6. do people like the fact that most stats have words to describe them instead of numbers, or does it just get too confusing (having to refer back to what is better then, say, adequate)?

Thanks for your input

Spoiler :

JNES: Civilizations 2


Republic of Canfre
Player:
Government: Republic ruled by single-house Senate
Capital: Rome
Economy: Stagnant, 8 EC
- Military: 2
- Commercial: 4
- Domestic: 2
Population: 12,320,100
Education: Late Iron Age/Educated (3)
Infrastructure: Adequate (3)
Culture: Established
Army: 34,020 footmen, 3,300 mounted, 12 catapults
Quality: 6
Navy: 1 quinquereme, 4 quadriremes, 35 triremes
Quality: 6
Stability: 82%
Wonders: Great Library of Rome
Top Trading Partners: Troy, Andalusia, Venice


Government

The form of government a nation has can profoundly shape the way it develops and the attitudes of its people. Each government type has its obvious advantages and disadvantages. For example, a republic whose legislative body is continually elected and changed will have problems implementing long-term programs and solutions, while being quite adept at appeasing the people and keeping a happy nation. A monarchy, on the other hand, will have the ability to react to events and implement programs more efficiently and quickly, while suffering from dissent, especially if it is an unpopular monarch. These are not binding rules to follow, there will be exceptions where a people love their monarch more then a different people love their senate, it really is relative to each nation. And there isn't exactly an enlightened people who believe in unalienable rights at this time either.

Dynasties and legislatures

Dynasties are necessary for a monarchy, and change according to the story of a nation. Individual rulers will not be shown in the stats, thats left up to your stories, but overall dynasties will be present. There could be the case where multiple nations share the same dynasty, in this case they are royal families ruling over multiple nations. This is perfectly acceptable and can be a great way to "vassalize" countries or simple ties the knots of an alliance even tighter.

As for legislatures, it is important to indicate what kind of legislature rules a nation, as they vary in type. For example, a republic that has just a senate which is elected by wealthy male citizens will have a different public reaction then a bicameral legislature elected by popular sovereignty. Both have implications for a nation as well, whether the wealthy elite or the masses will support a government or not is very crucial to retaining stability.

Economy

Perhaps the most important aspect of a nation is its economy. I have adapted EQ's IC system used in A Brave New World for use in this NES, since it did seem to work very well and was a very simple system to use. In this NES though, Industrial Capacity as a means of economic measurement is unfitting, and so I will use the term Economic Capacity instead, or EC. Since EC does not really have a monetary value, you are not able to trade or bank EC, everything must be used/assigned every turn. It is a measurement of your economic power, it is not tax revenue. If you want to send money to another nation, simple state a monetary value, and EC will be adjusted accordingly. In addition to the EC number, the economy stat also includes a description, either recession, stagnant or growing. This indicates the healthiness of a nation's economy. Generally one would want the economy to be continually growing, even at a slow pace. This does not mean next turn the EC will be increased, it just means its growing.

Each nation has three categories to which EC can be assigned. Within each category you can direct the usage of the EC. All of these tie in together with each other, creating the economic power and influence of a nation.

Military

Military EC is the EC a nation can spend directly on military units each turn. It also helps gauge the quality of a nation's military. The more EC one has invested into the military, the better quality of military one can have. Though other considerations are taken to determine the quality of a nation's military (more on training below). The following is a list of military units available for purchase with military EC:

1 thousand footmen (swordsmen, slingers, pikemen, and any other melee force you can think of): 1 EC
5 hundred mounted (basic mounted soldiers, equipped with swords or javelins): 2 EC
10 catapults (only real practical siege weapons of the age): 2 EC

Late Iron Age Navy:

5 triremes (mainstay of a sea/river/lake navy, equipped with oars and sails, fast and maneuverable): 1 EC
3 quadriremes (4-layered decks, large yet slow and not as maneuverable as a trireme; good as a flagship): 1 EC
1 quinqueremes (5 layers, very large with big hull, completely sail-powered, good for use in hostile seas and oceans): 2 EC

Merchant fleet and reserves:
In addition to a standing army and fleet, a nation also has extra supplies to draw upon should circumstance warrant. The availability and amount of these resources are dependent upon each nation, and a leader really never has a solid number of availability until they are called up (not shown in the stats). Generally a nation with stronger commercial tendencies and an active trading community will have a larger merchant marine, and therefore a bigger pool in which to pull ships from in time of need. Same goes with higher-populated nations: they will have a larger reserve base for the army. Of course leaders will surely think of creative ways in which to call up more warriors, such as forcing slaves, women, POWs, or frontier savages to fight for them.Calling upon the merchant fleet or working reserves will have an affect on the populace attitude as well as economy.

Quality:
This stat is not directly influenced by a player, but instead is a result of the amount of EP invested into the military, its size, the age in which a nation is, and the experience it has had. Quality refers to the quality of weapons, fighting ability of the individual soldier and units as a whole, and the skills and abilities of the generals/admirals of a nation. Quality is very hard to increase, it must be accomplished through long-range plans and spending.

Other Military Spending and Notes:
The larger a military is, chances are the worse the quality (unless the military EC stat is increasing as well). So be aware that, while a nation does receive military points each turn, it may not be a good idea to continually buy troops. Military points may also be spent on things like forts, wonders, or just reinvesting into the military (thus adding to the quality over the long-run).

Commercial

Commercial EC represents the amount of economic power a nation has devoted towards trade. Hallmarks of a highly commercialized economy are large urban centers with a diverse population and access to important trade routes (whether they be overland or oversea). If access to such trade routes is lacking or if the population of a nation is such that the people prefer countryside leaving urban centers small, it may not be a good idea to invest much in the commercial category because it won't make much of an impact. A highly commercialized citizen base will also be much more resistant to expansionist wars which interfere with trade, and will tend to cause more problems if you act against their interests. Later, large families or companies may rise to richness, challenging a ruler's legitimacy to rule.

Investment in the commercial category, though, is a good way to boost a nation's economy. Commerce attracts wealth to a nation, and will indeed affect the economy in the long-run. A higher commercialized economy will also boost of a high supply of merchant marine ships, in which to call into service when confronted with an enemy and need reinforcements.

Trade Missions:
Commercial points may also be spent on what are known as "trade missions." These are missions funded by a government to travel to far off lands (must be specified!) through a known route (which you can customize, if you wish). This basically simulates the large trade missions funded by rulers of ancient kingdoms to foreign lands. The cost of a single trade missing varies, depending on how far the mission must travel, how well equipped it is, and how much goods it is to carry. For example, a trade mission funded by 2EP that might lead a mission from one nation to a neighboring nation may be sufficient, since 2EP is plenty to provide for goods, escorts, sturdy ships, etc. Though a missing that is to travel thousands of miles, through many different lands (and paying many different taxes) may cost a good deal more (upwards of 5EP?). So what do trade missions do? Depending on how successful they are, they do provide wealth to your people, increase contacts and influence in other nations, and an increase in the commercial feeling of a people. There may be as many trade missions going on at the same time as one wishes, and will be marked in the stats (with the funding of the mission in parentheses). Remember, investing in trade missions takes away from what would normally be spent in upkeeping the commercial activities of a nation.

Infrastructure: See infrastructure stat under "Domestic."

Domestic

The domestic stat is quite simply the stat the is most like the revenues of a nation. This represents the amount of wealth being spent and invested in the infrastructure, education, and upkeep of a nation. For example, a highly-modernized and clean society will definitely need a high domestic stat.

Education:
Domestic points may be spent on building schools, libraries, temples, and other education services for a nation in order to boost the literacy and intelligence of a people. To literally increase the education stat, a player must pay the amount in parentheses plus one to get to the next level. A high education stat will require a higher number of unspent domestic points each turn to upkeep it, or else it will fall down to a natural level supported by the domestic stat. Be sure to think critically of what a lower-educated and higher-educated populace can mean. Because an education stat represent the average of all the citizens of a nation, be aware that even a low stat can mean there is a small, educated elite running a country. In general, a lower-educated people are usually more content, less of a nuisance, and less likely to organize revolts. A higher-educated populace are more prone to revolts, rebellion, and challenges to a regime. But, a high-educated people means a more enlightened society, which also means more chance of an age upgrade or technological discoveries. The education stat includes an adjective, listed in order as follows:

None (0) - Barbaric (1) - Uneducated (2) - Educated (3) - Informed (4) - Civilized (5) - Intellectual (6) - Philosophical

Also with each stat will be the age in which a nation is. The "age" corresponds to the widespread use of a certain tool, material, idea, and/or norm of society. Advancing to the next age will come based upon the education stat and events in the world. When the age is increase, education drops two levels, and army quality drops two levels.

Infrastructure:
Just like education, the higher the infrastructure level of a nation, the more a player must have resting in the domestic stat. The stat itself refers to the amount and quality of public service structures (not including military/defense structures) such as sewers, harbors, roads, marketplaces, etc. This stat really is a full-breadth kind of stat, having influence on just about every stat in a nation (can't have a commercialized society without markets and harbor, for example), and because of this both commercial and domestic points may be spent to increase/upkeep this stat. The stats are as follows, and follow the same basic system as the education stat.

None (0) - Crumbling (1) - Sparse (2) - Adequate (3) - Plentiful (4) - Abundant (5) - Modern (6) - World Class

Culture:
Culture is very important in this NES. It is the measure of how expandable a nation's influence is over a foreign people. A larger culture leads to the spreading of a nation's religion, language, and customs, among other aspects, inside and outside a nation's borders. This leads to more influence in surrounding nations, the faster expansion into barbaric lands, and the overall stability of one's nation. Increasing the culture stat does take many centuries, and really can be done in a myriad of different ways. One can aggresively expand its culture by conquering and forcebly imposing its culture on others. One can build mighty wonders (one of the most effective), establish centralized and organized religions, send missionaries, etc. Also what really helps a nation's culture, perhaps more than anything else, is stories. Here are the levels of culture:

None - Vague - Established - Civilized - Broadening - Influential - Advanced - Glorified - Unrivaled

Stability

This, like infrastructure, is an all-encompassing stat. The higher the stability is in a nation, the better. Once stability starts to drop, confidence begins to fade, and one may be faced with coups, civil wars, or worse. Keep stability high by suppressing your people or doing things they like.

Wonders

Wonders are finally back in the game. These are monolithic structures (not projects, which don't have a stat) that surpass conventional buildings. They can include huge temples, burial sites, colossal forts, or just about anything one can think of. Depending what the structure actually is (fort vs. canal vs. temple) will determine from what category EP must be spent, and how much (note: it can require EP from mulitple categories). Depending on what the wonder is, it will provide a nation with benefits directly related to the structure. If it is a religious structure that brings millions of pilgramages, one might expect both a cultural and an economic boost. If it is a university or library, one can expect an education boost, etc.

1. I would advise against that if possible, it seems too easily abused.

2. It's better than just expanding like in the old days. All rules need refinement, it's ok as it stands (after a quick glance).

3. Split armies seems like extra work and you know how these fresh starts become work heavy as it is. Rounded or exact, doesn't matter to me.

4. Leave it out if it has no real utility

5. I don't know, you could do that or you could just decrease various domestic stats at your own discretion. Keep track on the amount that players have been increasing their stats via spreadsheets, or something.

6. Either one is confusing for the lazy I wouldn't stress over it, pick the easiest choice for you.

 

[Masada]

1. the actual usage of the economic system. Should I simplify it/return to the basics of a single income with bonuses given to special cities?

You can have a single income figure, but maybe you could show where the income comes via the map (say by dividing things into provinces and having some means of showing its importance graphically or stat wise). It adds work but it allows players to make judgments on where exactly to attack (and if you wanted to be extra special you would have provinces with all three different types of eco points graphically represented).

 

[Terrance888]

I agree with Masada. For example Crezch's map with cities show that each city location gives 1 GPT.

 

[Angst]

This NES is being developed.

http://nesing.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=nesd&action=display&thread=14

 

[Jason The King]

1. I would advise against that if possible, it seems too easily abused.

Against this system? Or the regular one that I could change to?

You can have a single income figure, but maybe you could show where the income comes via the map (say by dividing things into provinces and having some means of showing its importance graphically or stat wise). It adds work but it allows players to make judgments on where exactly to attack (and if you wanted to be extra special you would have provinces with all three different types of eco points graphically represented).

That sounds really cool, but it would triple the workload I feel.

 

[Masada]

It would marginally increase it, I would just have predetermined divisions on the map which are not subject to change (makes it easier to trade territory as well ). If anything you could do it in paint, just have a paintbrush with different colours and mark those in although it would be ten times easier with something slightly more advanced

 

[Birdjaguar]

You can have a single income figure, but maybe you could show where the income comes via the map (say by dividing things into provinces and having some means of showing its importance graphically or stat wise). It adds work but it allows players to make judgments on where exactly to attack (and if you wanted to be extra special you would have provinces with all three different types of eco points graphically represented).

If a map layer could be auto updated from an Excel stat sheet it would be very cool.

 

[BananaLee]

If a map layer could be auto updated from an Excel stat sheet it would be very cool.

I'd actually pay to see someone work that out.

I could probably paint it on a Java or MATLAB program but that'd be pretty useless.

 

[Dachs]

I would just have predetermined divisions on the map which are not subject to change (makes it easier to trade territory as well )

No, it wouldn't.

 

[Masada]

Always a dissenter

I actually think you could do it in Paintshop Pro, I know we have methods of automatically transcribing word documents over to paintshop for publication purposes. I'm not a 100% sure how they do it... but I do know its a 'fairly' quick process (of course duplicating layers and then setting them to be non-transparent would be just as easy ).

 

[Dachs]

Always a dissenter

I'm very serious. I would be infuriated if I were unable to make the borders exactly the way I wanted, in a similar fashion to how I was driven into a rage by the delayed implementation of avatar enlargement for my account this evening. This isn't just an aesthetic thing either, this could possibly have serious geostrategic implications.

 

[bombshoo]

It has always bothered me that outside of Fresh Starts and ancient age NESes, cultural development tends to become very secondary.

I'm really interested in someone helping me create a new, but fairly simple way for accurately developing non-political cultural elements (art, music, philosophy, etc) in an NES with a more modern setting. Particularly for a new NES I am thinking of starting up. I posted some new rule ideas a while back ( http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7710138&postcount=3665 ) and I'll admit, I wasn't horribly satisfied with what I came up with. I do think what I came up with is on the right track as it attempts to solve one of the largest foreseeable problems with developing culture in modern times; making people care. I'd still like to hear some ideas on this particularly from some my fellow NESers with more experience creating unique rule sets.

My ultimate goal with this modern cultural development system would not only be to add some flavor to the world we create, but also to add a new element to an NES by allowing some nations to be able to focus on something besides increasing their pixel count on the map.