New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Lord_Iggy]

Have you honestly ever performed an evil action Iggy? I can't seem to remember anything.

As Panga, or as any nation? I played as a nation of zealous expansionists as the Holy Tierist Empire of Dashtaka, in Harleqin's last NES.

You should've mixed it up with some slave trade, genocide and treason, to go with the whole colonial empire thing.

I still find it odd that Pegu grew so large- it was generally on good terms with all of the major native empires (save Hocatelco).

 

[Thlayli]

Dance my friend, dance! I'll take this moment to point out that my comment was aimed at the Antalyan "Beliefs" included religious tolerance- something that none, well maybe save Panga, could ever hope to claim. At one point or another, every faith (er; nation!) has been persecuted and has done its fair share of persecuting. So no, I don't care about what you do now; but Antalya should not have "religious tolerance" as a value .

You seem to fail to make the connection that religions simply aren't viewed as subversive by the Republican Imperium.

We restrict dangerous political philosophies, and Phosism is classified as such, for the time being, being linked with the old guard of traitors who attempted to overthrow the Basilevs. Antalya is the most religiously diverse nation in the world, and all peaceful faiths are welcomed within the Rationalist super-structure.

So, in an OOC sense, of course Antalya doesn't have completely free religious beliefs, though in character it will deny that to the death.

 

[flyingchicken]

1) "Megaduke" is an awesome title. All English-language-centric NESes should use it more often.
2) Throwing out an idea (credits to Symph, Perfectionist, and North King for the map, mountains, and hills):

Hmmm, maybe this would be more fitting for the "classic NES map..."
3) I suggest that in the "classic NES map," someone should add 1-pixel-thick rivers should be added to represent "minor rivers" too.
4) Also, other miscellaneous geographic things, to address very basic complaints like "omg you're ruling a bronze age empire across the himalayas!" that even non-hard-core realists should feel bothered about without having to require all mods to pass a geography test or something. Plus: more realistic borders!
5) Actually, I might try to do all this stuff, but my track record for focusing is so poor that someone else should feel the need to add those things and do it himself!

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I've often considered drawing mountain ranges onto a RL map- however, is it really necessary? In a real world map, we know exactly where the mountains are, to a level of accuracy far beyond what large, representative mountains can show.

 

[Angst]

I've often considered drawing mountain ranges onto a RL map- however, is it really necessary? In a real world map, we know exactly where the mountains are, to a level of accuracy far beyond what large, representative mountains can show.

Not all of us.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Question: If I were to assign stats describe a culture group, what stats would this include (ranges people, I want to have a score attached to it 1-10 etc)

 

[Angst]

Bear with me for the following inaccurate contexts, but I want to help. Therefore a number of ideas to consider.

Tradition vs innovation
Piety vs unbelievers
Nomads vs settled
Family (or group) vs individual
Authoritative vs libertarian
Land vs sea (nutriental base either farms or fish fx)
Pacifist vs aggressive
Scattered vs dense
Small vs large population
Analphabetism vs literacy
Backwards vs advanced technology

 

[Kal'thzar]

some of those are more likely to be down to the geography (scattered vs dense) and so forth.

But its a good list, I'm currently designing a system of cultural interactions and I need these scores to test it out numerically. I hope to be able to create culture groupings (where each individual culture is a subset of) and other such interactions. This should allow for better modelling of such things as religion and trade etc.

 

[Angst]

Thank you, I am happy it was usable.

 

[Birdjaguar]

some of those are more likely to be down to the geography (scattered vs dense) and so forth.

But its a good list, I'm currently designing a system of cultural interactions and I need these scores to test it out numerically. I hope to be able to create culture groupings (where each individual culture is a subset of) and other such interactions. This should allow for better modelling of such things as religion and trade etc.

If you start very broad (urban v rural; montheistic v polytheistic etc.) and work your way down to things like marriage or lineage, you can build a branching tree of characteristics that has levels. Similar scores on the same level might mean some affinity.

 

[flyingchicken]

I've often considered drawing mountain ranges onto a RL map- however, is it really necessary? In a real world map, we know exactly where the mountains are, to a level of accuracy far beyond what large, representative mountains can show.

Ah, but as you might notice some casual NESes overlook even the most basic of geographic features... and even Civilization doesn't do that.

A series of uniformly themed maps (the theme being "NESing") of varying information will be useful to most mods, and will improve the general quality of games. For those who think realism is prime, then you won't have silly bronze age kingdom running through the Alps (and other more obscure mountains) because it will be jarring the moment you try to plot it on the map--and for those who don't, won't your bronze age kingdom running through the Alps be even more crazy impressive if you can see (in the map) that it runs through the Alps (presumably with slave-worked tunnels or something).

Also, easier border-setting for mods who have difficulty parsing and translating info from other maps to NESing maps. With "unified" informative maps that won't be a problem anymore!

Anyway, my overarching plot in all this (including that earlier crops and climates thing which needs to be reworked-on) is to eventually come up with a NESing "sourcebook" that will be Earth-centric. If you've ever read an RPG sourcebook, you'll know what I mean.

Maaan am I sleepy.

---

In addition, such a "sourcebook" will help build up the middle "genre" of NESing, the one in-between hardcore plausibility and those completely out-of-touch with reality, I believe.

 

[Matt0088]

In addition, such a "sourcebook" will help build up the middle "genre" of NESing, the one in-between hardcore plausibility and those completely out-of-touch with reality, I believe.

Yes!

Kal'thzar, check out the SymNES2 rules. Symphony created a list that might be exactly what you are looking for. Though, Symph may have deleted all those posts too, like almost all his other posts. What happened to Symph? IIRC, he said that he only thought that Pre-ChaNES was the most realistic NES available and would only be involved in that, but all his posts in Pre-ChaNES are deleted too. Did Symph officially quit?

 

[Angst]

Yea, I think that Symph is gone for good, calling us a "sinking ship".

That smart, perfectionist, arrogant bastard.

 

[das]

Tradition vs innovation
Piety vs unbelievers
Nomads vs settled
Family (or group) vs individual
Authoritative vs libertarian
Land vs sea (nutriental base either farms or fish fx)
Pacifist vs aggressive
Scattered vs dense
Small vs large population
Analphabetism vs literacy
Backwards vs advanced technology

Many of those might seem like opposites, but really aren't (are Ancient Greeks pious or not? Almost all societies can have mixed nutriental bases - is Japan farm or fishery-based? Honestly, for most advanced societies fishing alone is never enough, so it's more a question of predominance of farming or herding. Most societies can be both pacific (pacifism is ridiculous as applied to any advanced society as a whole) and aggressive on different levels and in different ways). Others are simplified and/or should not be represented as a slider (small/large popular, backward/advance technology - the latter is a particularly bad case details-wise).

Question: If I were to assign stats describe a culture group, what stats would this include (ranges people, I want to have a score attached to it 1-10 etc)

Honestly, that seems like a doomed effort to me since things are always much more complicated than that (and the important parts are best represented by simple descriptive stats rather than sliders, like the system often used for governments), but first of all, what do you mean by a "culture group"? A given society? Or something broader?

 

[Adrogans]

Yes!

Kal'thzar, check out the SymNES2 rules. Symphony created a list that might be exactly what you are looking for. Though, Symph may have deleted all those posts too, like almost all his other posts. What happened to Symph? IIRC, he said that he only thought that Pre-ChaNES was the most realistic NES available and would only be involved in that, but all his posts in Pre-ChaNES are deleted too. Did Symph officially quit?

Yes he deleted all of those SymNES2 posts as well. Jerk.

 

[Angst]

Many of those might seem like opposites, but really aren't (are Ancient Greeks pious or not? Almost all societies can have mixed nutriental bases - is Japan farm or fishery-based? Honestly, for most advanced societies fishing alone is never enough, so it's more a question of predominance of farming or herding. Most societies can be both pacific (pacifism is ridiculous as applied to any advanced society as a whole) and aggressive on different levels and in different ways). Others are simplified and/or should not be represented as a slider (small/large popular, backward/advance technology - the latter is a particularly bad case details-wise).

Well, I was tired, and I just made something up for quick, bad reference.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Many of those might seem like opposites, but really aren't (are Ancient Greeks pious or not? Almost all societies can have mixed nutriental bases - is Japan farm or fishery-based? Honestly, for most advanced societies fishing alone is never enough, so it's more a question of predominance of farming or herding. Most societies can be both pacific (pacifism is ridiculous as applied to any advanced society as a whole) and aggressive on different levels and in different ways). Others are simplified and/or should not be represented as a slider (small/large popular, backward/advance technology - the latter is a particularly bad case details-wise).



Honestly, that seems like a doomed effort to me since things are always much more complicated than that (and the important parts are best represented by simple descriptive stats rather than sliders, like the system often used for governments), but first of all, what do you mean by a "culture group"? A given society? Or something broader?

More along the lines of East Asians, Indians, Central steppes and so forth, but in a fresh start. I've often been annoyed at the disconnect between different cultures in fresh starts, next door neighbours being completly dissimilar, this should fix it. The sliders just need to get more general. Inter-culture infulences would connect groups together. Mostly to be employed over the Culture phase of the NES, then stats get drawn up and the nations beging to diverge a bit, thought with a couple of infulences still occuring etc.

 

[das]

Culture is sort of unquantifiable. IMHO standardised descriptive stats should work better as far as such comparisons go as well, actually (they would show similarities and compatibilities); just how did you envision using the slider system for those interactions anyway? Making peripheral culture sliders gravitate towards the slider positions of central cultures? That's not really how it worked. Human factor aside, culture is one half ancestry[1], one half geography.

[1] Meaning tradition, not genetic descent.

 

[Thlayli]

My theory is that Symphony needed at least 1 das NES per year to statistically dominate in order to remain a stable isotope.

 

[North King]

Honestly, for most advanced societies fishing alone is never enough, so it's more a question of predominance of farming or herding.

Minus the Chavin of Peru, of course.