New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Kozmos]

I still shout Galjactica, we have FTL, but we still use nukes and how eric says popguns.

 

[Symphony D.]

Battlestar point-defense systems actually look to be electromagnetic (railguns). It's somewhat difficult to get gunpowder weapons to work in space and even if you do, their velocities are seriously lacking compared to alternatives. That said, nukes will likely remain useful, although missiles would require serious improvement (and upscaling) due to range and payload limitations. Homeworld had some nice solutions in that department.

Their FTL is also basically Fold-based and instantaneous, which is more or less what Iggy looked to be wanting to avoid (even if you factor in their somewhat random movements, that's because they're not using computers and are in unfamiliar territory).

 

[jalapeno_dude]

@Das: Yeah, I remember aaminion's pirate NES.

I'm not sure the empire thing would work--how would seperate parts keep in contact with each other?

@Symphony--but what about the NES you're already working on?

 

[Thlayli]

Well, I guess the whole FTL principle can be applied to carrying information, right?

Actually, it might be easier to send information than tangible objects...

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I actually sculpt spaceships out of plasticene. I could take some photos if you wish.

Just to see if most people agree, if 1 or 2-pilot fighter ships come into existence, they will be essentially an engine, a weapon, and a cockpit jammed into it. Anything else would be a waste.

 

[Kozmos]

Just to see if most people agree, if 1 or 2-pilot fighter ships come into existence, they will be essentially an engine, a weapon, and a cockpit jammed into it. Anything else would be a waste.

That's good, me likes.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Oooo post photos!

I actually sculpt spaceships out of plasticene. I could take some photos if you wish.

Just to see if most people agree, if 1 or 2-pilot fighter ships come into existence, they will be essentially an engine, a weapon, and a cockpit jammed into it. Anything else would be a waste.

Cockpit is optional . Seriously, for the stuff a fighter is doing I'd say the loss of human "decision making capability", "instinct", or "force connection" would be outweighed by the advantages of not having lug along all the crap a human needs in terms of weight, energy requirements, size, and cost. Put your expensive people in the bigger ships and have USVs do the dirty work (and seriously, if your species can't build a decent smart program/teleoperation system, then maybe a space empire isn't for you ).

...This is Space War, fought out with limited resources and microsecond opportunities on a battlefield of fractional orbits, firing arcs, recovery times and gravity wells. This where you die in an instant and never see what ended you. This is where the computers fight...

and

Victory goes to the side with the greatest processing power

 

[Thlayli]

Good point, dis. However, non-sentient AI's don't always have the creativity to deal with tactical maneuvers, even if their reaction times and processing capabilities are far superior to humans.

IMO, "enhanced" human pilots would mix the best of both worlds...particularly if they had a direct neural connection with the ship.

 

[Symphony D.]

Or you could just plug the human in remotely, and have him fly the craft at a distance, which makes vastly more sense economically and spatially. Lose the ship, you keep the pilot. At the distances they'll tend to fight communication lag won't matter (if there is any to begin with) and it'll probably be riddled with AI to help the human out anyway. Best of both worlds.

It would probably be an analogue to where aircraft are going. UCAVs for dangerous or really boring work, and actually manned missions for things where you require a lot of finesse (and usually a bigger payload).

@Symphony--but what about the NES you're already working on?

I'm always working on several things.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Cockpit is optional . Seriously, for the stuff a fighter is doing I'd say the loss of human "decision making capability", "instinct", or "force connection" would be outweighed by the advantages of not having lug along all the crap a human needs in terms of weight, energy requirements, size, and cost. Put your expensive people in the bigger ships and have USVs do the dirty work (and seriously, if your species can't build a decent smart program/teleoperation system, then maybe a space empire isn't for you ).

Not much is needed for a short-range fighter, with colossal populations humans are expendable.

Or you could just plug the human in remotely, and have him fly the craft at a distance, which makes vastly more sense economically and spatially. Lose the ship, you keep the pilot. At the distances they'll tend to fight communication lag won't matter (if there is any to begin with) and it'll probably be riddled with AI to help the human out anyway. Best of both worlds.

A remotely-controlled or robotic fighter could be hacked or taken over. That is one serious weakness. Although remotely-controlled is how I imagined some of the fighters I designed and sculpted.

Now for a question for people: Do you think capital ships would have an observation area (Not necessarily a bridge, perhaps something like the Observation platform on the Invisible Hand)?

Oh, and would you like to see my sculptures?

 

[Symphony D.]

Not much is needed for a short-range fighter, with colossal populations humans are expendable.

Fighter pilots are a very expensive and rare commodity. Space fighter pilots even more so. If you're putting up cannonfodder you just wind up like the Germans or Japanese in WWII.

A remotely-controlled or robotic fighter could be hacked or taken over. That is one serious weakness.

That depends very strongly on precisely how it is controlled. There are several ways of making it impossible or virtually for the connection to be severed, including but not limited to: quantum encryption of the signal, quantum-entanglement communications, and smart AI recognition of pilot cadre (brainwaves, genetic sampling, so forth; you don't match, system shuts down).

Do you think capital ships would have an observation area (Not necessarily a bridge, perhaps something like the Observation platform on the Invisible Hand)?

No, actually. It's a warship, not a cruise liner. All meaningful observation will be taking place at ranges vastly beyond the ability of the human eye to see or comprehend anyway. Maybe as recreation for the crew or something, but it'd probably be ejected or sealed off prior to battle. Considering space is always at a premium on a ship, I can't really see it. Regarding bridges, they should always be burried in the bowels of the ship. Why most Sci-Fi decides to display them so prominently is beyond me.

Oh, and would you like to see my sculptures?

Sure, why not.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Fighter pilots are a very expensive and rare commodity. Space fighter pilots even more so. If you're putting up cannonfodder you just wind up like the Germans or Japanese in WWII.

Good point. But there may be colossal supplies of pilots... it all depends. Suppose you have an insectoid-type race who develops a caste specifically designed for flying space ships (IE: Geonosians). But let's not get into aliens yet.

That depends very strongly on precisely how it is controlled. There are several ways of making it impossible or virtually for the connection to be severed, including but not limited to: quantum encryption of the signal, quantum-entanglement communications, and smart AI recognition of pilot cadre (brainwaves, genetic sampling, so forth; you don't match, system shuts down).

Thanks, I didn't think of that.

No, actually. It's a warship, not a cruise liner. All meaningful observation will be taking place at ranges vastly beyond the ability of the human eye to see or comprehend anyway. Maybe as recreation for the crew or something, but it'd probably be ejected or sealed off prior to battle. Considering space is always at a premium on a ship, I can't really see it. Regarding bridges, they should always be burried in the bowels of the ship. Why most Sci-Fi decides to display them so prominently is beyond me.

Yeah, I always figured there would be an armored command center in the center of the ship filled with screens showing a panoramic of the surrounding areas (with various other displays of course).

I'll take a few photos in a while. Warning, they have windowed command stations. I justify it by saying that the ships are not particularly technologically advanced. Or because they look cooler that way.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Good point, dis. However, non-sentient AI's don't always have the creativity to deal with tactical maneuvers, even if their reaction times and processing capabilities are far superior to humans.
.

Ever get in a sword fight with a threshing machine? Its moves aren't very creative . Besides, this is where you have human controllers on a nice command ship for tactical invention.

Good point. But there may be colossal supplies of pilots... it all depends. Suppose you have an insectoid-type race who develops a caste specifically designed for flying space ships (IE: Geonosians). But let's not get into aliens yet.

Yes, but when you compare a human sized cockpit; at least several metres in each direction, taking energy to run, and stopping the humans squishy bits getting squished, with an AI which (even at pessimistic future developments in processing density) could probably fit inside a breadbox and be mass produced...after all a wasp is pretty darn thick when compared with a human, but would you like to mess with a swarm ?

A remotely-controlled or robotic fighter could be hacked or taken over. That is one serious weakness.

Any space combat ship will have considerable amounts of processing power anyway (are you serious proposing the pilots controls be directly linked to the engines - hell even Vostock had a computer to time ignitions and make calculations), if your up against someone who can break your encryption and take over your systems in the midst of battle they are just as capabile of taking over a human controlled ship as a robot one. Heck they could just break your ship to ship comm and send all the pilots crazy orders! Try fighting when you can't speak to the rest of your squadron .

Oh, and would you like to see my sculptures?

Sounds good!

 

[Symphony D.]

STRIKE CLASS
- Scout (recon)
- Space Superiority Fighter (Fighter / Interceptor; defense)
- Multi-role Fighter (Fighter / Bomber; defense / attack)
- Bomber (attack)
CORVETTE CLASS
- Corvette (various)
FRIGATE CLASS
- Frigate (Light, Heavy, so on)
- Drone Carrier (UCAV carrier)
- Escort Carrier (Small Strike compliment)
- Assault Ship (Similar to Amphibious Assault Ships, eg: USS Tarawa; planetary invasion and close support)
CAPITAL CLASS
- Destroyer (various)
- Cruiser (various)
- Carrier (Strike or UCAV)
SUPERCAPITAL CLASS
- Command Carrier (Supercarrier)
- Battleship

So, this seems a fairly good start. A hybrid of some games and legitimate Naval technology. You may criticize my choices at your leisure. Probably use something along the US Navy hull designation system to abbreviate them (CV, CVC, BB, so forth). Things like UCAVs (Unmaned Combat Aerospace Vehicle in this case) themselves and probes are what not are not included since they're more like weapons than ships.

Something I think is interesting about most technology scales in space games is they require you to have a certain "hull" size. I think that's kind of ridiculous, looking at it logically. You can just scale a design up dramatically and still have it work; for example, Zheng He's "Treasure Ships" or Isambard Kingdom Brunel's Great Eastern. It'll just be really inefficient (for example, we could very easily build a giant space Battleship today but its armor, weapons, power, radiation shielding, and so forth, would be enormously space-consuming an inefficient; but we could do it). Some sort of gradual reduction in hull costs with advances in materials in technology, perhaps.

 

[Thlayli]

Hmm, we also need to take into account stealth, and information warfare technologies that might come down the pipeline in a FTL universe.

 

[Symphony D.]

Those have little to do with ship size or function, merely methods of operation. Personally I believe stealth of various sorts would be standard, but that has little to do with overall role of a vessel. I'm concentrating on scale and base function right now, not technology.

 

[Nuka-sama]

What about a NES about US Politics?

Edit: Like you be leader of your Party, try to Influice Senate and House Races, run for President, all that good stuff.

I may even start my own NES

 

[The Farow]

What about a NES about US Politics?

See North King's NES. It is set in the future in a possible scenario where the major political parties have been severly weakened.

 

[Nuka-sama]

Meh, Maybe I want my own NES

 

[North King]

Meh, Maybe I want my own NES

Then start one in a different field? I only got 9/13 orders, which I had to wait a WEEK to get that much. If there are two NESes to split people's attention, then neither will work.