No Free Speech If You Talk About Me

[Rulle_Kebab]

He did something completely legal and then went to a country where it is illegal.
It's basically the same as.:
- German police arresting a Dutch citizen because he smoked pot in Amsterdam.
- American police arresting a German tourist, because he let his at the time underage son have a beer at Oktoberfest 2003.
-Saudi Arabia arresting an American woman on vaction because she had pre-marital sex, drank alcohol, and drove a car in America.

This is unacceptable and should cause an international incident.

Or the same as arresting Khaled Sheikh Mohammed and killing Osama Bin Laden...
To take the example to the extreme.

 

[dutchfire]

He did something completely legal and then went to a country where it is illegal.
It's basically the same as.:
- German police arresting a Dutch citizen because he smoked pot in Amsterdam.
- American police arresting a German tourist, because he let his at the time underage son have a beer at Oktoberfest 2003.
-Saudi Arabia arresting an American woman on vaction because she had pre-marital sex, drank alcohol, and drove a car in America.

This is unacceptable and should cause an international incident.

Well, not really. He translated a book into Thai and put it on his blog. Translating it kinda means he is targeting it at Thai people.

I feel he should probably be pardoned, but it was a pretty stupid thing of him to do and he knew (or, should have known) the risk, both when he posted this and when he then entered the country.

 

[warpus]

Well then what kind of retribution would you suggest? I ofcourse can understand when it is trivial matters, but you mean for example that there shouldbe no legal way of sentencing one for outright racist remarks or remarks that violates a person?

What sort of retribution for a non-hate speech insult? Insult the guy back! Tell him his mom has a small penis. Don't get the law involved...

 

[Silurian]

He did something completely legal and then went to a country where it is illegal.
It's basically the same as.:
- German police arresting a Dutch citizen because he smoked pot in Amsterdam.
- American police arresting a German tourist, because he let his at the time underage son have a beer at Oktoberfest 2003.
-Saudi Arabia arresting an American woman on vaction because she had pre-marital sex, drank alcohol, and drove a car in America.

This is unacceptable and should cause an international incident.

Well the USA disagrees as I posted on page 1

Originally Posted by United States Supreme Court
The fact that conduct is lawful in the state in which it took place will not, of itself, bar application of the United States antitrust laws, even where the foreign state has a strong policy to permit or encourage such conduct

He is most likely still a Thai citizen and could well have been travelling to Thailand to make use of cheaper medical care available to Thai citizens.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Or the same as arresting Khaled Sheikh Mohammed and killing Osama Bin Laden...
To take the example to the extreme.

Too extreme. Terrorism is a different matter. Any government has the right to prosecute people who have been involvend in attacks against it's opulation.

Well, not really. He translated a book into Thai and put it on his blog. Translating it kinda means he is targeting it at Thai people.

I feel he should probably be pardoned, but it was a pretty stupid thing of him to do and he knew (or, should have known) the risk, both when he posted this and when he then entered the country.

I see your point, but then Thailand should have denied him entry instead of letting him into the country to arrest him for something he did in America. They are overstepping their boundaries.

 

[Rulle_Kebab]

What sort of retribution for a non-hate speech insult? Insult the guy back! Tell him his mom has a small penis. Don't get the law involved...

yes yes hehe thats what I meant with trivial matters...
In the example with the us-thai dude I don't know exactly what it was said in his links or translated book...But if we in general accept royalty and that these people where born better that others and to rule others than I guess we should also accept that we cannot insult them.

 

[say1988]

I see your point, but then Thailand should have denied him entry instead of letting him into the country to arrest him for something he did in America. They are overstepping their boundaries.

As a Thai citizen can they legally bar him entry? And I don't know the Thai laws regarding the removal of citizenship, if it is even possible.

Too extreme. Terrorism is a different matter. Any government has the right to prosecute people who have been involvend in attacks against it's opulation.

How about less extreme. An American could come to Canada, develop a relationship and (without intent when leaving the US) have completely legal and consentual sex. Then go home and spend 30 years in prison, based on sex tourism legislation.

 

[warpus]

yes yes hehe thats what I meant with trivial matters...
In the example with the us-thai dude I don't know exactly what it was said in his links or translated book...But if we in general accept royalty and that these people where born better that others and to rule others than I guess we should also accept that we cannot insult them.

If you want to accept that, that's fine, but it'd be wrong for a government to impose that on the citizenry.

By the way, I find the concept of "born better" morally abhorrent. Thinking like that does not belong.. anywhere.

 

[Old Hippy]

I see your point, but then Thailand should have denied him entry instead of letting him into the country to arrest him for something he did in America. They are overstepping their boundaries.

they probally fast tracked their approval of his visa... is this any different to what wikki leaks did in the UK... i cant see Jules going to the US for medical treatment tho

 

[Traitorfish]

I wouldn't call it a duty per se...

But yeah, free speech should be a universal right. I hope that the American Foreign Office tries to get him out.

I do find him waving his American citizenship like it's some sort of get-out-of-jail card annoying.

Eamon DeValera fell back on his American citizenship after starting an armed rebellion against the British government. In the grand tradition of don't-hurt-me-I'm-a-Yank-ism, this is small potatoes.

 

[Silurian]

they probally fast tracked their approval of his visa... is this any different to what wikki leaks did in the UK... i cant see Jules going to the US for medical treatment tho

Thai citizens do not require a visa to enter Thailand

 

[Old Hippy]

Thai citizens do not require a visa to enter Thailand

true... but try entering without a passport

 

[HannibalBarka]

He did something completely legal and then went to a country where it is illegal.
It's basically the same as.:
- German police arresting a Dutch citizen because he smoked pot in Amsterdam.
- American police arresting a German tourist, because he let his at the time underage son have a beer at Oktoberfest 2003.
-Saudi Arabia arresting an American woman on vaction because she had pre-marital sex, drank alcohol, and drove a car in America.

This is unacceptable and should cause an international incident.

This. Unless it is explicitly written in Thai law that the "not blashpheming the king law" applies to thai citizen even outside of Thailand.

 

[Silurian]

true... but try entering without a passport

He would not have been able to get on the plane without a passport.

Even if he used his US passport to get into the country he would have come to the attention of the authorities when he used his Thai ID card.

 

[Akka]

You do not have a right to not be insulted.

Err...
Yes, you actually, in fact, do ?

 

[dominatr]

Yes, free speech should be universal. The fact that this man was imprisoned for criticizing the Thai king is absurd. I don't care that any government body writes on a piece of paper that you can or can't say certain things. In my opinion, free speech is a very powerful thing but also must be defended carefully because it is easy to lose and hard to get back.
On another note, the fact that the guy was punished in Thailand for something he did in America is also absurd. Yet another case of an authority stretching its tentacles past its own sovereignty and treating law as an international thing. The law is the law only in its respective country.

 

[emzie]

He did something completely legal and then went to a country where it is illegal.
It's basically the same as.:
- German police arresting a Dutch citizen because he smoked pot in Amsterdam.
- American police arresting a German tourist, because he let his at the time underage son have a beer at Oktoberfest 2003.
-Saudi Arabia arresting an American woman on vaction because she had pre-marital sex, drank alcohol, and drove a car in America.

This is unacceptable and should cause an international incident.

I'm pretty sure that if I wrote a book denying the holocaust, many European wouldn't care where I wrote it / published it.

This. Unless it is explicitly written in Thai law that the "not blashpheming the king law" applies to thai citizen even outside of Thailand.

Extrajudicial laws based on citizenship are awful.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm pretty sure that if I wrote a book denying the holocaust, many European wouldn't care where I wrote it / published it.

Has anyone ever actually been prosecuted for Holocaust denial in another country? I know that David Irving was locked up by the Austrians, but that was after making a number of speeches in Austria, not simply because he'd published books in the United States.

 

[duckstab]

He did something completely legal and then went to a country where it is illegal.
It's basically the same as.:
- American police arresting a German tourist, because he let his at the time underage son have a beer at Oktoberfest 2003.

This is unacceptable and should cause an international incident.

Just a small nit. In Texas, it's legal for a parent or legal guardian to furnish alcohol to a minor in their care, as long as the consumption takes place in the adult's presence. Other states may be more restrictive.

However, your overall point is valid.

 

[emzie]

Has anyone ever actually been prosecuted for Holocaust denial in another country? I know that David Irving was locked up by the Austrians, but that was after making a number of speeches in Austria, not simply because he'd published books in the United States.

David Irving was actually arrested in, and deported from, Canada for his published works. Though he was never prosecuted for Holocaust denial (which isn't a crime here, I don't think). He was just deemed persona non grata and put on a plane to the UK.