Plan for Mosque III...

[MobBoss]

Its official name is "Park51." Its original name was "Cordoba House"

Just as YMCAs are not Churches, and the 92nd Street Y isn't a Jewish Temple, Park51 is not going to be a Mosque.

How you can get to page 25 of the third thread without picking up on basic facts such as these is incredibly discouraging.

Again, churches all across america include community centers, gyms, etc. etc. etc.

They are still referred to as 'churches'.

So, would you argue that there should be no Catholic churches near schools or playgrounds?

Its a free country, if you want to take that up as a cause knock yourself out.

Since some Christians have murdered doctors in cold blood should we make sure no churches are within 1 mile of a hospital or doctor's office?

Again, knock yourself out.

But it seems you are trying to compare 9/11 with the actions of catholic priests and anti-abortion nutters.

Not quite feeling it. Sorry.

Since some men have raped some women should all men be kept at least 100 feet away from women (or at least from any woman who's been a victim)?

Again, if you think you can get a majority of the nation behind you on that, go for it.

Do you object to the Muslim prayer center (or whatever its called) in the Pentagon? Do you object to the other, more seedy businesses that are close to Ground Zero?

I dont really confess to know anything about the Mosque in the Pentagon.

Would you also advocate a mosque not be at Fort Hood as well?

I'm just going to repost this, because Mobboss has reposted the same argument ad nauseum

This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.
-Ron Paul (R) TX

So Ron Paul finally says one thing you agree with and now he is your hero?

First of all, I think Ron Paul is absolutely crazy and I dont agree with him on a wide range of issues. I guess I have one more thing to disagree with him on.

I dont think its about hate or Islamaphobia at all. But Ron Paul never saw a polarizing issue he couldnt try to win a few poll points on. I am sure he will appreciate your vote in 2012.

 

[KaiserElectric]

The lack of taste and respect showed by those who do so or fly it on their car antenna till it disintegrates over time is unfortunate, esp. given how many of these types are so vociferous, boisterous, and jingoistic. Maybe an exercise in irony? /shrug

In English?

 

[.Shane.]

Why are you making such blanket statements to disprove a fair and honest opinion?

You're totally missing the point, which is amusing because I'm giving you parallel analogies. Certainly more so than the one you offer.

Look at it this way; say you have a friend who had most of his familiy murdered by a local criminal cell. Would it be appropriate to build a statue in honor of the cell near your friend's house? Likewise, would it be appropriate to build anything associated with Islam near Ground Zero?

Um... except that Islam is not a "criminal cell". There are over 1.5 billion people who practice Islam and you're painting them all with the extremely broad brush of being terrorists or, at best, being sympathic or supportive of terrorists.

Let me help you with my examples.

Islam:9/11 terrorists
Men:Male rapists
Catholic church: pedophile priests
Evangelical Christian churches:Scott Roeder

Also, as has been pointed out... this has been planned for a long time and has been given the approval of a wide range of people from all political, social, and religious spectrums. But, we're in an election cycle and there are a lot of cynical (to be nice), powerful interests who decided to play on people's fears or bigotry (pick your poison) to make an issue where there essentially was not one.

 

[Ajidica]

.Shane., you forgot midwestern white male: Ed Gein and Jeffry Dahmer.

 

[.Shane.]

Its a free country, if you want to take that up as a cause knock yourself out.

Except I don't want or need to make it a cause because, as in this case, it makes no rational sense.

I dont really confess to know anything about the Mosque in the Pentagon.
...
Would you also advocate a mosque not be at Fort Hood as well?

Since Fort Hood is a military base, I'm 100% OK w/ whatever accommodation they make for any religious group. So, sure, if they have chapel or synagogue then a mosque is fine.

See, the biggest difference is that I seem to be able to separate the fact that the 9/11 terrorists were fringe group that do not represent, at all, the mainstream of Islam, esp the Islam that is practiced in this country.

But it seems you are trying to compare 9/11 with the actions of catholic priests and anti-abortion nutters.

I'm comparing the actions of extreme criminals who, in all these cases, are not representative of the whole demographic they are part of.

@Ajidica, maybe we should

 

[Formaldehyde]

From what I've heard back in the 60s and 70s wearing the flag on clothing was considered nearly as disrespectful and unpatriotic as burning it in effigy.

It still is.

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

 

[MobBoss]

See, the biggest difference is that I seem to be able to separate the fact that the 9/11 terrorists were fringe group that do not represent, at all, the mainstream of Islam, esp the Islam that is practiced in this country.

How many failed attacks have we have in the last 9 years from american muslims?

I'm comparing the actions of extreme criminals who, in all these cases, are not representative of the whole demographic they are part of.

Which is why your're not seeing even more opposition.

 

[caketastydelish]

It's a crying shame that if I posted that the sky is blue, and here's why all your counterarguments fail, it would be considered biased.

They sky is dark, it's nighttime. What's your counterargument?

Anyhow, what he said was not as true as "the sky is blue" it was far more biased and controversial.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

How many failed attacks have we have in the last 9 years from american muslims?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#2000-present

8/23, at least in actual successes.

from the same page, 5 attempts.

now count how many times your kind has tried to blow up women's clinics.

also, please stop twisting the debate. most of the domestic terrorists in this country have taken their ideological cues from overseas, unless you can find a mosque here in the united states, with a significant following, that preaches to attack the United States.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Link to video.

How much more do they have to sacrifice for this country to be counted as Americans?

America, this is choosing time. Do you want to take the path of darkness and hatred, or what we have always been? The shining city on a hill. This is why my family came here because we believe in America. Please don't let us down. Don't tell us the dream wasn't true. I believe today and I want to believe tomorrow

 

[warpus]

I dont really confess to know anything about the Mosque in the Pentagon.

But now that you know, are you outraged?

 

[Ajidica]

I will keep pointing it out that Muslims are already worshiping at the future location of Park51.
EDIT: When did Cenk become an MSNBC contributor? I knew he was already a talking head.
That wasn't one of his better videos though, he got a bit too emotional about it which isn't the best way to argue a point.

 

[Theige]

Again, churches all across america include community centers, gyms, etc. etc. etc.

They are still referred to as 'churches'.

Right, because they are churches.

We don't call YMCAs churches, because they are not churches, they are YMCAs.

This particular entity that we are discussing, "Park51" is modeled after the YMCA and the 92nd Street Y on the upper east side of Manhattan, which is a Jewish community center.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Hmmm....

"Sensitivity"

This is the word being used to support the ban on the community center, by Republicans and other conservatives. Traditionally, this word has been used by them to denigrate the "gay, liberal, leftist, anti American" segment of the population. So, I'm a bit confused; is it alright now to be "sensitive"? Can a guy be sensitive and not be "gay"? Are these Republicans all now "gay"? Is the Republican party coming out of the closet or are they just reaching out to "sensitive" democrats and encouraging them to embrace their "gayness"?

My world is crumbling....

 

[bernie14]

Hmmm....

"Sensitivity"

This is the word being used to support the ban on the community center, by Republicans and other conservatives. Traditionally, this word has been used by them to denigrate the "gay, liberal, leftist, anti American" segment of the population. So, I'm a bit confused; is it alright now to be "sensitive"? Can a guy be sensitive and not be "gay"? Are these Republicans all now "gay"? Is the Republican party coming out of the closet or are they just reaching out to "sensitive" democrats and encouraging them to embrace their "gayness"?

My world is crumbling....

ban me if u must, but that is the "gayest" thing i have ever heard!!

ohh...and about the pentagon "mosque"....

first, it is a chapel and there r christian, jewish, muslim, hindu, etc services everyday....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8SfLT9uJ9s

second, thank u for finally pointing out that the opposition to the ground zero mosque has nothing to do with "da evul xtians and ignorant americuns and da manipulating repulitards" because the lack of any "reasonable (?)" opposition to ANY and ALL faiths there proves that once and for all THANKS AGAIN.....

third, can someone point out when they will be holding those hindu services at the ground zero "community center"?.....when they do, i doubt there will be any further opposition

 

[Newbunkle]

third, can someone point out when they will be holding those hindu services at the ground zero "community center"?.....when they do, i doubt there will be any further opposition

Thanks for pointing out that this is just discrimination against Muslims.

 

[Formaldehyde]

ohh...and about the pentagon "mosque"....

first, it is a chapel and there r christian, jewish, muslim, hindu, etc services everyday....

The point remains that if any US military personnel tried to even suggest that Muslims shouldn't be able to pray anyplace on a military reservation because it was "insensitive" to do so, they would likely face disciplinary action as a result.

 

[bernie14]

Thanks for pointing out that this is just discrimination against Muslims.

if your statement makes sense to u ,pleas etry to explain it

The point remains that if any US military personnel tried to even suggest that Muslims shouldn't be able to pray anyplace on a military reservation because it was "insensitive" to do so, they would likely face disciplinary action as a result.

the protests would not be coming from the military servicemen, it would come from the public.....but there r NO protests about the INTERFAITH chapel that allows EVERYONE inculding MUSLIMS to pray there

 

[Newbunkle]

if your statement makes sense to u ,pleas etry to explain it

You admitted that nobody would have a problem with Hindus, which means the discrimination is only against Muslims. And yes it IS discrimination, because you're trying to link all Muslims with terrorists.

The really sad thing is that this is an improvement:

Numerous incidents of harassment and hate crimes were reported against Middle Easterners and other "Middle Eastern-looking" people in the days following the 9/11 attacks.[177][178] Sikhs were also targeted because Sikh males usually wear turbans, which are stereotypically associated with Muslims. There were reports of verbal abuse, attacks on mosques and other religious buildings (including the firebombing of a Hindu temple and assaults on people, including one murder: Balbir Singh Sodhi was fatally shot on September 15, 2001. He, like others, was a Sikh who was mistaken for a Muslim.[177])

 

[Formaldehyde]

the protests would not be coming from the military servicemen, it would come from the public.....but there r NO protests about the INTERFAITH chapel that allows EVERYONE inculding MUSLIMS to pray there

I seriously doubt the US military would care in the least about obviously intolerant civilian protestors, even at Fort Hood. They have quite clear rules and regulations concerning religious freedom for all servicemen.

And so it would be fine for Muslims to pray near the "hallowed" "ground zero" if the facility was "interfaith" instead of being Muslim-owned? I seem to have missed that caveat in the First Amendment. Perhaps you could point it out to me.