Post Feb 1st 2013 - bugs - Single Player

[Thunderbrd]

SO: the second pic is following the rules. As long as you are inside your own borders, your ships that normally can only travel coastlines can be out in the ocean tiles... but opponent ships can't take advantage of this cultural benefit in your waters. In that scenario, it looked like you were the one in another's cultural boundary, therefore they were able to go into the ocean they owned but you were still stuck to the coast.

 

[Koshling]

DH, had internet problems, plus the TV was out (all connected) so sorry about this double posting and editing above:


Koshling

Also my enemy (Cherokee) has just BYPASSED an open city (no defenders) and not at least razing it?? Now because of this inadequacy, i was able to get my Assassin next to them and Pick them off one by one.

Also see 2nd screenie with explanation in pic), thx.

EDIT: See 3rd pic, I haven't had more than 2 Civ's before hand when playing with Rev On recently but as you can see they are back to Normal again(i started with 12 civs), popping up everywhere, so something you did in the last coding on AI must have also triggered this, nice. At least as far as i can tell (your fix below)

Use in an outcome mission (like slaughter)
Use to construct a building
Disbanding
Upgrading
Reworked improvement upgrade slightly to be more granular in its use of modifiers, and to give correct displayed numbers in plot hover text

Fix will be pushed to SVN shortly. The stack that isn't attacking is confused because when it tries to evaluate the attack it finds no enemy units to actually attack! I've tweaked the relevant code to allow for it being either an enemy unit or an enemy city, which resolved the problem.

Ironically if you made the mistake of putting a defender it, the AI would pounce!

 

[Stormwind]

Rev 4707: When building an ambusher it immediately loses its Looter promotion.

 

[strategyonly]

Ironically if you made the mistake of putting a defender it, the AI would pounce!

Yes i know, even if it is an animal.

Rev 4707: When building an ambusher it immediately loses its Looter promotion.

Really, i thought the line was supposed to quite when you upgraded to Assassin?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

EDIT: See 3rd pic, I haven't had more than 2 Civ's before hand when playing with Rev On recently but as you can see they are back to Normal again(i started with 12 civs), popping up everywhere, so something you did in the last coding on AI must have also triggered this, nice.

Don't forget that if you have "Barbarian Civs" on that barbarians will turn into playing nations with out revolutions. This will happen when a given number of nations have seen the city and it is big enough (set via options). Therefore the more starting neighbours you have the more likely that barbarian cities will evolve into nations.

 

[strategyonly]

Don't forget that if you have "Barbarian Civs" on that barbarians will turn into playing nations with out revolutions. This will happen when a given number of nations have seen the city and it is big enough (set via options). Therefore the more starting neighbors you have the more likely that barbarian cities will evolve into nations.

Dang you got me again, Bro. I always keep a copy of the options on my desktop, and i must have forgot to change them out for the new game i started, DUH!!

 

[Thunderbrd]

Rev 4707: When building an ambusher it immediately loses its Looter promotion.

Not a bug. Ambusher's can't pillage so they have no benefit from the Looter promo. This was actually a fix done a little while back in response to many complaints that units that could not pillage were being given this useless option.

If we want to 'fix' it, then we need to allow Ambusher units to pillage. I've never quite understood why they are setup so they can't anyhow. Makes Rogues clearly superior/more useful in comparison to Ambushers and Ambushers require a special case circumstance to build. The one edge the Ambusher has over the Rogue at the moment is an ability to be sacrificed to get a little espionage on the opponent city.

 

[Yudishtira]

Also see 2nd screenie with explanation in pic), thx.

You can enter Ocean within your own culture/borders. Since you're within their borders, they can enter Ocean but you can't. That's standard Civ4/BtS, isn't it?

 

[Lexotan_sedlex]

My rogue are attacking a atletlist with odds of 10%, when i put autohunt to only fight over 60%.

My save is attached. I use SVN 4709.

 

[strategyonly]

The button for "Choose Desired Discovery Tech" does not work at all??

 

[Hydromancerx]

The button for "Choose Desired Discovery Tech" does not work at all??

Did it ever work? Even in RoM/AND I don't remember it ever working properly.

 

[ls612]

Did it ever work? Even in RoM/AND I don't remember it ever working properly.

Well it would be nice to have it work for a change. But yes, I don't think it ever functioned properly.

 

[ls612]

What on earth is going on with the pedia text here?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The are not in my pedia at all and I am up to date with the SVN

 

[ls612]

The are not in my pedia at all and I am up to date with the SVN

Yes, that is a unit I was testing to make sure it worked before committing. It isn't working though and that is a rather odd thing to happen to the pedia text.

 

[strategyonly]

Yes, that is a unit I was testing to make sure it worked before committing. It isn't working though and that is a rather odd thing to happen to the pedia text.

What exactly are you talking about, the lines in the pedia?>?

 

[Koshling]

@Koshling:

First off thx for the great response to my posted info.

Now, Some bad, some not so new, and some still pending problems. (Same autosave, different turn(s).

GG's are still just accumulating in AI Civs, in the pictured one they have around 6 GG's just sitting in the city doing nothing?? (1)

One AI civ is still not working the tiles around the city with farms etc, made two improvements for mines but i dont see anything else for improvements?? (2)

(Last 2 pics) my SVN when hovering over City, also the changes you made are in the pic the workers are out making GREAT improvements now in that "featured" city in the above post, thx.

Current SVN 4703, NO viewports. Plus savedgame

Making a few (somewhat speculative) changes in response to this save.

Firstly the GPs there are not joining the city due to local danger evaluations (GPs don't join cities they consider to be in danger). I am adjusting the evaluation of what constitutes danger for these purposes, to only inhibit joining in this way for more concrete types of threat. However, a close look ALSO showed a case I hadn't picked up in my previous fix, which is causing perceived danger to accumulate due to a bizarre case where the AI decides to disband a unit that has less experience than the free experience a newly built unit would have. I made two changes for that case - firstly I added it to the list of things that don't constitute a source of danger as per the previously identified cases, and secondly I changed that logic so that it wouldn't be used to disband things with low xp levels, unless the city concerned can actually build replacements!! (it was happening for things like subdued animals which cannot be built directly)

Secondly the GGs are not doing anything because they have all opted to become great commanders, and there are no useful stacks for them to join! I'll come back to this point below. However, it's really very stupid for a one-city state to turn 6 GGs all into GCs! The logic the AI uses to make this choice is clearly flawed (basically if the GG spawns in a plot that already has at least as many other units as a GC would have initial command points (5) it decides to become a GC). That choice is made regardless of how many other GCs the civ already has, or even how many are already in the same plot! I will change this to not generate more GCs than are reasonable given the civ's size (say 2 + num cities/5 as a first stab). Doing that should mean that the GGs would consider other choices (becoming a super specialist or building something or donating xp to units), but again it's not something I can verify from your save (since they made the decision to become GCs long ago)

Why there are no useful stacks is harder to determine (since it's down to past decisions which I can't diagnose from this save). Basically I suspect it's got stuck in a cycle where it's building things it considers higher priority than the units that would seed such stacks (city attackers etc.), such as the Great Wall it's currently trying to build. This is also why it has no workers I believe (and thus cannot improve its territory). I cannot diagnose why this occurred from this save, though I suspect it's transient.

 

[Thunderbrd]

First, I should say: AWESOME evaluations you're doing there Koshling! Yeah, those are some really bad decision making spots in the AI that will make a big impact to improve on! Here's some food for thought on those matters:

Firstly the GPs there are not joining the city due to local danger evaluations (GPs don't join cities they consider to be in danger). I am adjusting the evaluation of what constitutes danger for these purposes, to only inhibit joining in this way for more concrete types of threat. However, a close look ALSO showed a case I hadn't picked up in my previous fix, which is causing perceived danger to accumulate due to a bizarre case where the AI decides to disband a unit that has less experience than the free experience a newly built unit would have. I made two changes for that case - firstly I added it to the list of things that don't constitute a source of danger as per the previously identified cases, and secondly I changed that logic so that it wouldn't be used to disband things with low xp levels, unless the city concerned can actually build replacements!! (it was happening for things like subdued animals which cannot be built directly)

As a player, if I'm going to do such a disbanding, its ONLY when I KNOW I don't have current need for those units (like say for happiness in the city or property modifiers or healing when there are damaged units in town and its the only healer etc...) AND also only when I'm about to choose to rebuild them, presuming they are present to fill a role (such as part of my build-to list in the stack for defense in that city.) Attackers, I'll rarely if ever disband because its better to use them as lemmings if needbe, UNLESS they COULD be replaced with faster units and they are all that's holding up the attack stack from an extra move point as a group.

Secondly the GGs are not doing anything because they have all opted to become great commanders, and there are no useful stacks for them to join! I'll come back to this point below. However, it's really very stupid for a one-city state to turn 6 GGs all into GCs! The logic the AI uses to make this choice is clearly flawed (basically if the GG spawns in a plot that already has at least as many other units as a GC would have initial command points (5) it decides to become a GC). That choice is made regardless of how many other GCs the civ already has, or even how many are already in the same plot! I will change this to not generate more GCs than are reasonable given the civ's size (say 2 + num cities/5 as a first stab). Doing that should mean that the GGs would consider other choices (becoming a super specialist or building something or donating xp to units), but again it's not something I can verify from your save (since they made the decision to become GCs long ago)

I will pour GGs into planted specialists for the extra XP in my military production center (usually the capital but I sometimes have a secondary or tertiary military center that stems from capturing an AI's city where a number of GGs were already placed before capturing it and the production is really good.) Its not until I'm getting 3 lvls or so out of my units being built in the military center and when I begin to start considering the formation of a city attack stack that I'll consider using a GG for a Commander. Some consider this earlier though and send the GG out with their hunter but this strategy should only work for games with Barbarian Generals. I personally prefer getting levels on my units at first though because once the GG is used in this manner, that benefit applies wherever my units are on the map while the GC's benefit is limited to its location.

I won't use the GG for the building with the added military production until later in the game when it'll take a LOT more GGs to put into the military production center to get another level on my units when trained. And I sometimes in the very late game will generate a Leader unit with a GG but usually I just leave that role for the Nobles and Viceroys and such if needbe. I feel it tends to be a waste of potential of the GG ultimately in 99% of cases.

Just sharing some strategies you might want the ai to consider.

On both notes, the Ongoing Training option the combat mod will bring up soon will mean some tweaks for the AI decision making in those areas, particularly choosing to disband will be a generally bad idea on the basis of getting rid of insufficiently endowed xp on units when the option is on. So I guess I'll need to ask for a little advice on where to insert some of those tweaks when it comes time to do so.

 

[LumenAngel]

I used my espionnage to destroy a Castle Gatehouse, but I still cant attack the city
I used another one to destroy the Moat, but his effect are still here too...

Tales of Salt water crocodile can be used to build Governor's menagery (I think it's a bug)
Tales of Humpbak Whale is the only tales not tradable

I cant build Tamed animal, even if I have what is needed :s

Big Ben is hard to build when you have Clockpunk : Townclock are replace by Automation clock, and this building dont count as a Townclock

Look like some new wonders lik El Camino or House of Wisdom dont really work :s

Some Culture wonders are nearly impossible to build like Culture Egyptian (stone and desert and floodplain and religion)

 

[Koshling]

I used my espionnage to destroy a Castle Gatehouse, but I still cant attack the city
I used another one to destroy the Moat, but his effect are still here too...

Tales of Salt water crocodile can be used to build Governor's menagery (I think it's a bug)
Tales of Humpbak Whale is the only tales not tradable

I cant build Tamed animal, even if I have what is needed :s

Big Ben is hard to build when you have Clockpunk : Townclock are replace by Automation clock, and this building dont count as a Townclock

Look like some new wonders lik El Camino or House of Wisdom dont really work :s

Some Culture wonders are nearly impossible to build like Culture Egyptian (stone and desert and floodplain and religion)

Any chance you can provide a save game for one or both of the first two issues (gatehouse and moat effects persisting after they are destroyed)...?