Postmortem on Mueller

[Estebonrober]

Exactly. Prosecutorial discretion is ultimately in the hands of the president. If he knows Mueller is wasting time and money (and most importantly, reaping publicity) on a wild goose chase, he has a duty to intervene - which is not clearly obstruction of justice.

If you're innocent of a crime do you want the people investigating you to be fair and competent? Yes. Does it matter if you're guilty of other offenses? No. How would you react if investigators spied on you based on rumors and gossip provided by political opponents seeking power by getting rid of you? You'd have reason to question the entire process.

You guys keep on going with these lies. Holy mother lovin’ **** Batman. The warrant was based on more than just the Steele dossier. This has been debunked sooooo often it’s nauseating reading you keep up with this farce. Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference found plenty of Trump obstruction throughout the investigation.

In a just world the man would have never become president because he was such a terrible criminal before he ran (both in the scale of his crimes and his inability to hide the fact that he was a criminal, the only thing bothering me about this is that the IRS hadn’t caught him long before). Now since he has continued to act like a moronic criminal he should be impeached for the garbage he is and I mean garbage at every level here. Morally, spiritually, legally, academically, and ability he is garbage.

But you got your judges! You all and Mitch got your judges so who cares about the devil you ride to eat there.

Sorry I’m ranting a bit.

 

[Naskra]

Sorry I’m ranting a bit.

Indeed.

 

[Estebonrober]

which sentence is untrue?

By reporting on the obstruction of his investigation he is within his scope.

 

[Naskra]

By reporting on the obstruction of his investigation he is within his scope.

maybe. I don't see it that way.

 

[onejayhawk]

No offense but Mueller is a long time Republican appointed to the FBI by a Republican president and appointed as special counsel again by a Republican. The idea that hes suddenly a Democrat plant is beyond absurd.

If he had motive to say something it was absolutely not to help Democrats.

Meh. He does not have to be a Democrat to hold a personal grudge.

Mueller had a personal thing with Trump over not getting the head job at FBI. Never forget that Deep Throat, the man that ran Nixon out of office, was Mark Felt who passed over for the same job. Also, Weissmann is a Democrat and there are indication Mueller became a figurehead and Weissmann ran things. The process of this investigation fits with the sort of misconduct Weissmann exhibited on the Enron task force.

You guys keep on going with these lies. Holy mother lovin’ **** Batman. The warrant was based on more than just the Steele dossier. This has been debunked sooooo often it’s nauseating reading you keep up with this farce. Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference found plenty of Trump obstruction throughout the investigation.

In a just world the man would have never become president because he was such a terrible criminal before he ran (both in the scale of his crimes and his inability to hide the fact that he was a criminal, the only thing bothering me about this is that the IRS hadn’t caught him long before). Now since he has continued to act like a moronic criminal he should be impeached for the garbage he is and I mean garbage at every level here. Morally, spiritually, legally, academically, and ability he is garbage.

But you got your judges! You all and Mitch got your judges so who cares about the devil you ride to eat there.

Sorry I’m ranting a bit.

Ranting is correct, because what you are calling lies are either facts or well supported opinion. Certainly the warrant was based on more than the Steele dossier, but it was the centerpiece and the rest was supporting it. There were material omissions in the application. Barr testified under oath that he repeatedly asked Mueller if there was sufficient evidence to indict, exclusive of the guideline. Each time Mueller said no. Yesterday, Mueller in a press conference contradicted what his boss said under oath.

Your second paragraph tells to story. You wanted Trump to be guilty so he could be gone. Thats how most Democrats and other never-Trump feel. In this case he was actually, honestly innocent of the charges. That is what the facts say and they were compiled by people like you.

J

 

[Estebonrober]

Meh. He does not have to be a Democrat to hold a personal grudge.

Mueller had a personal thing with Trump over not getting the head job at FBI. Never forget that Deep Throat, the man that ran Nixon out of office, was Mark Felt who passed over for the same job. Also, Weissmann is a Democrat and there are indication Mueller became a figurehead and Weissmann ran things. The process of this investigation fits with the sort of misconduct Weissmann exhibited on the Enron task force.


Ranting is correct, because what you are calling lies are either facts or well supported opinion. Certainly the warrant was based on more than the Steele dossier, but it was the centerpiece and the rest was supporting it. There were material omissions in the application. Barr testified under oath that he repeatedly asked Mueller if there was sufficient evidence to indict, exclusive of the guideline. Each time Mueller said no. Yesterday, Mueller in a press conference contradicted what his boss said under oath.

Your second paragraph tells to story. You wanted Trump to be guilty so he could be gone. Thats how most Democrats and other never-Trump feel. In this case he was actually, honestly innocent of the charges. That is what the facts say and they were compiled by people like you.

J

Oh I’m clear on my bias against this moron. That doesn’t change that he was committing the crimes right in front of us and you choose to ignore that for political convenience. It’s cute to watch you guys run wrecking balls over your country with such vigor. It’s just unfortunate I’m stuck here watching it in horror.

 

[onejayhawk]

Oh I’m clear on my bias against this moron. That doesn’t change that he was committing the crimes right in front of us and you choose to ignore that for political convenience. It’s cute to watch you guys run wrecking balls over your country with such vigor. It’s just unfortunate I’m stuck here watching it in horror.

Except it does change that he was committing crimes right in front of us. He wasn't. You cannot ignore that for your own political convenience.

J

 

[Berzerker]

True, I do. Maybe you do. Trump does not, he wants the people investigating him to be his own lackeys who will say he didn't do anything wrong regardless of the facts.

Guilty people want lackeys in charge, innocent people want a verdict from fair, competent investigators. As Naskra argued, this situation isn't normal - the guy accused of obstructing justice is in charge of the investigation. If Trump sees malfeasance can he fire the responsible investigators? I think so... Is that obstruction? Not if the investigation continues.

There is a blurry line between obstruction and oversight and given the fact the FISA warrant for Page was obtained in an underhanded manner Trump should have just shut it down and make his case in court or before the Congress and the people. Barr and Mueller need to square off in open hearings like the Viper and the Mountain to determine the fate of poor Tyrump.

You guys keep on going with these lies. Holy mother lovin’ **** Batman. The warrant was based on more than just the Steele dossier. This has been debunked sooooo often it’s nauseating reading you keep up with this farce. Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference found plenty of Trump obstruction throughout the investigation.

In a just world the man would have never become president because he was such a terrible criminal before he ran (both in the scale of his crimes and his inability to hide the fact that he was a criminal, the only thing bothering me about this is that the IRS hadn’t caught him long before). Now since he has continued to act like a moronic criminal he should be impeached for the garbage he is and I mean garbage at every level here. Morally, spiritually, legally, academically, and ability he is garbage.

But you got your judges! You all and Mitch got your judges so who cares about the devil you ride to eat there.

Sorry I’m ranting a bit.

A couple people here told me to read the application for the FISA warrant on Page, so I did. I found 1 source, Steele and his dossier. I didn't find source #2 or source #3 etc, I found publicly available information regarding Page and his trips abroad. That means the dossier was the source for the allegations and the extra material was 'time and place' information anyone could use to fabricate a conspiracy.

The application says the information on Page arrived around Oct '16 a few weeks before the election. Thats when Steele (Clinton campaign) was leaking his dossier trying to get attention. Now simple logic tells us source #1 is more relevant than source #2, but for those insisting the dossier was just part of the supporting cast it would help if you identified the stars of the show.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Guilty people want lackeys in charge, innocent people want a verdict from fair, competent investigators. As Naskra argued, this situation isn't normal - the guy accused of obstructing justice is in charge of the investigation. If Trump sees malfeasance can he fire the responsible investigators? I think so... Is that obstruction? Not if the investigation continues.

There is a blurry line between obstruction and oversight and given the fact the FISA warrant for Page was obtained in an underhanded manner Trump should have just shut it down and make his case in court or before the Congress and the people. Barr and Mueller need to square off in open hearings like the Viper and the Mountain to determine the fate of poor Tyrump.



A couple people here told me to read the application for the FISA warrant on Page, so I did. I found 1 source, Steele and his dossier. I didn't find source #2 or source #3 etc, I found publicly available information regarding Page and his trips abroad. That means the dossier was the source for the allegations and the extra material was 'time and place' information anyone could use to fabricate a conspiracy.

The application says the information on Page arrived around Oct '16 a few weeks before the election. Thats when Steele (Clinton campaign) was leaking his dossier trying to get attention. Now simple logic tells us source #1 is more relevant than source #2, but for those insisting the dossier was just part of the supporting cast it would help if you identified the stars of the show.

He can't fire the Special Counsel. The Special Counsel is appointed by the Attorney-General and reports to the AG, the President has no oversight function when the AG has decided it is appropriate to appoint a Special Counsel to investigate the President.

 

[Naskra]

He can't fire the Special Counsel.

Archibald Cox.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Archibald Cox.

Which led to Nixon's impeachment proceedings and his having to resign.
Not a good precedent.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Trump admitted the Russians helped him get elected.

"Russia, Russia, Russia! That's all you heard at the beginning of this Witch Hunt Hoax...And now Russia has disappeared because I had nothing to do with Russia helping me to get elected. It was a crime that didn't exist."

 

[Estebonrober]

Except it does change that he was committing crimes right in front of us. He wasn't. You cannot ignore that for your own political convenience.

J

A couple people here told me to read the application for the FISA warrant on Page, so I did. I found 1 source, Steele and his dossier. I didn't find source #2 or source #3 etc, I found publicly available information regarding Page and his trips abroad. That means the dossier was the source for the allegations and the extra material was 'time and place' information anyone could use to fabricate a conspiracy.

The application says the information on Page arrived around Oct '16 a few weeks before the election. That's when Steele (Clinton campaign) was leaking his dossier trying to get attention. Now simple logic tells us source #1 is more relevant than source #2, but for those insisting the dossier was just part of the supporting cast it would help if you identified the stars of the show.

He openly courted Russia to violate the law in his favor. On television and in tweets multiple times. All before Oct. 16'. There was no need to corroborate the Steele dossier beyond the open actions of his campaign. Behind the scenes his campaign manager was conspiring with Russians in a pretty obvious quid pro quo manner, just because they didn't have enough to convict him on it does not mean it didn't happen.

 

[Ajidica]

But you got your judges! You all and Mitch got your judges so who cares about the devil you ride to eat there.

They're going ride-or-die with Caligula.

 

[Berzerker]

Which led to Nixon's impeachment proceedings and his having to resign.
Not a good precedent.

Nixon was guilty

He openly courted Russia to violate the law in his favor. On television and in tweets multiple times. All before Oct. 16'. There was no need to corroborate the Steele dossier beyond the open actions of his campaign. Behind the scenes his campaign manager was conspiring with Russians in a pretty obvious quid pro quo manner, just because they didn't have enough to convict him on it does not mean it didn't happen.

Then why didn't the FBI ask for a FISA warrant before ~Oct '16? The Steele dossier was source #1 in the FISA application but it doesn't need corroboration? The warrant was to spy on Page, what did he do on TV to deserve that? Are you saying the warrant to spy on Page was an excuse to spy on Trump? According to Jimmy Dore Manafort shared already public polling data with someone who owed him money to show Trump had a chance to win so he better pay up. Course JD is a political comedian but he's a fan of people like Glenn Greenwald so maybe thats why Manafort didn't actually get nailed by Mueller for that.

 

[innonimatu]

US politics are currently hopeless. You'd discuss whether the iceberg deliberately obstructed the Titanic or was maliciously struck by it, while the ship sank.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Nixon was guilty

So you think Trump should be judge in his own case?

 

[Zkribbler]

Mueller had a personal thing with Trump over not getting the head job at FBI.

If he had wanted it, then why didn;t he ask for it?

 

[Estebonrober]

Nixon was guilty



Then why didn't the FBI ask for a FISA warrant before ~Oct '16? The Steele dossier was source #1 in the FISA application but it doesn't need corroboration? The warrant was to spy on Page, what did he do on TV to deserve that? Are you saying the warrant to spy on Page was an excuse to spy on Trump? According to Jimmy Dore Manafort shared already public polling data with someone who owed him money to show Trump had a chance to win so he better pay up. Course JD is a political comedian but he's a fan of people like Glenn Greenwald so maybe thats why Manafort didn't actually get nailed by Mueller for that.

I'm saying you didn't even need an excuse at that point and that if they didn't look into it they'd be accused by the left of being complicit in creating a manchurian candidate. All this stuff with the Russians and Trump has been going on for decades. The FBI slow rolling all this probably had a lot more to do with a reluctance to step into the nightmare they've stepped into.

 

[Estebonrober]

US politics are currently hopeless. You'd discuss whether the iceberg deliberately obstructed the Titanic or was maliciously struck by it, while the ship sank.

If only we could come together as a people and work on our problems together. Alas that ship has sailed for now with current leadership. Its basically to the death (political not literal yet) until new leadership takes over. I don;t think we are past the point of conciliation yet, but the Republican party is making a hard push for that outcome.