Postmortem on Mueller

[Berzerker]

Maddow had a good point tonight. Barr said the DoJ guideline says the President cant be indicted but Mueller can determine if criminal activity occurred. We shall see...

So you think Trump should be judge in his own case?

I think Nixon was guilty and had a motive to stop the investigation and I think Trump is innocent and had a motive to ensure a fair investigation at a minimum. I was on the fence a long time about this, I figured there had to be something wrong but I'd wait for Mueller. Then I read the redacted application to spy on Page and its BS. That didn't mean Mueller wouldn't find anything, but it would mean this was a fishing expedition based on politically motivated lies. Its like a cop pulling you over and using a dishonest excuse to search your car.

Now maybe there are several sources that were redacted but from what I can read it looks like most of it relies on Steele. He is source #1 and I cant find a 2nd. The first page or two are devoted to him and what a great guy he is. Yes judge, you can trust this man. Trump had prostitutes pee on Obama's bed and Putin has the tape! Maybe the judge didn't get to see the dossier, they might have realized the source lacked credibility. Seems to me one of the big stories here is just how sloppy these people are with our privacy. But FISA abuse? Yaaawwwn.

Congress is his judge and the President has a duty to ensure investigations are just, even when he's the target. Especially when he's the target.

I'm saying you didn't even need an excuse at that point and that if they didn't look into it they'd be accused by the left of being complicit in creating a manchurian candidate. All this stuff with the Russians and Trump has been going on for decades. The FBI slow rolling all this probably had a lot more to do with a reluctance to step into the nightmare they've stepped into.

The warrant was to spy on Page, not Trump. The application says the information the FBI was showing the judge arrived from State (Hillary's old stomping grounds) around Oct '16. Thats when Steele was leaking his dossier and he plays a prominent role in the justification to spy on Page. I'd like to see Steele under oath but maybe his foreign status makes that unlikely. I guess hiring Americans for dirty politics has its drawbacks, I thought we learned our lesson about using foreign intelligence from the Iraq War.

 

[Estebonrober]

I think Nixon was guilty and had a motive to stop the investigation and I think Trump is innocent and had a motive to ensure a fair investigation at a minimum. I was on the fence a long time about this, I figured there had to be something wrong but I'd wait for Mueller. Then I read the redacted application to spy on Page and its BS. That didn't mean Mueller wouldn't find anything, but it would mean this was a fishing expedition based on politically motivated lies. Its like a cop pulling you over and using a dishonest excuse to search your car.

Now maybe there are several sources that were redacted but from what I can read it looks like most of it relies on Steele. He is source #1 and I cant find a 2nd. The first page or two are devoted to him and what a great guy he is. Yes judge, you can trust this man. Trump had prostitutes pee on Obama's bed and Putin has the tape! Maybe the judge didn't get to see the dossier, they might have realized the source lacked credibility. Seems to me one of the big stories here is just how sloppy these people are with our privacy. But FISA abuse? Yaaawwwn.

Congress is his judge and the President has a duty to ensure investigations are just, even when he's the target. Especially when he's the target.



The warrant was to spy on Page, not Trump. The application says the information the FBI was showing the judge arrived from State (Hillary's old stomping grounds) around Oct '16. Thats when Steele was leaking his dossier and he plays a prominent role in the justification to spy on Page. I'd like to see Steele under oath but maybe his foreign status makes that unlikely. I guess hiring Americans for dirty politics has its drawbacks, I thought we learned our lesson about using foreign intelligence from the Iraq War.

So he can ask Russians for help right in front of you and then help certain russians involved with interfering in our election profit from that interference, and you are like "oh I don;t like how this FISA warrant was handled" and that is it eh? I mean call me jaded but I think the jury was in before the case was made if that is the case.


In case you need more evidence of complicity by the GOP. . .


Except clearly they have been only helping the GOP. Kentucky anyone?

https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...russian-investor-connected-to-mob/3508198002/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-russias-rusal-fails-in-senate-idUSKCN1PA2JB

https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...-kentucky-aluminum-mitch-mcconnell-rand-paul/

This Russian mobster just happens to be the guy Manafort was trying to conspire with during the campaign. Then McConnell and Rand get a 200 million dollar investment into a mill in Kentucky.

https://medium.com/@TheDemCoalition/mitch-mcconnells-ties-to-russian-oil-money-db56f16a4824


The Senate Leadership Fund, a super PAC run by Sen. McConnell’s former Chief of Staff, received a total of $3,500,000 ($2,500,000 in 2016 and $1,000,000 in 2017) via Access Industries and a subsidiary. "); background-size: 1px 1px; background-position: 0px calc(1em + 1px); font-family: medium-content-serif-font, Georgia, Cambria, "Times New Roman", Times, serif; font-size: 21px; letter-spacing: -0.063px;">Len Blavatnik is a Russian oligarch with US and UK citizenship who owns Access Industries and donated to Sen. McConnell’s 2016 Senate campaign vehicles.


Yea. . .

 

[Berzerker]

So he can ask Russians for help right in front of you and then help certain russians involved with interfering in our election profit from that interference, and you are like "oh I don;t like how this FISA warrant was handled" and that is it eh? I mean call me jaded but I think the jury was in before the case was made if that is the case.

I'm not upset about the Russians publishing DNC emails and if I had a platform to make that request, I'd be happy to ask them to expose political corruption here. Trump was for lifting sanctions and a better relationship with Russia long before wikileaks, probably because Trump's target is China and trade. Mueller said they couldn't charge anyone with conspiracy or coordination. I do care about the 4th Amendment and I understand attacks on it will be justified by pointing to the bad people we're spying on.

 

[onejayhawk]

He openly courted Russia to violate the law in his favor. On television and in tweets multiple times. All before Oct. 16'. There was no need to corroborate the Steele dossier beyond the open actions of his campaign. Behind the scenes his campaign manager was conspiring with Russians in a pretty obvious quid pro quo manner, just because they didn't have enough to convict him on it does not mean it didn't happen.

Trump admitted the Russians helped him get elected.

If that's all you got, you got an empty bag and no snipe.

J

 

[Ajidica]

I'd be happy to ask them to expose political corruption here. Trump was for lifting sanctions and a better relationship with Russia long before wikileaks,

Do you support the Russian Federation hacking Mazars in 2020 to release Trump's tax returns and other financial documents to the general public, with the intent of damaging him politically?

 

[Estebonrober]

Do you support the Russian Federation hacking Mazars in 2020 to release Trump's tax returns and other financial documents to the general public, with the intent of damaging him politically?

fwiw I think all tax information should be public domain by law anyways. Everyone. Everywhere. Is there any reason why this shouldn't be a reality given all the crime and malignancy capitalism in the shadows produces? A little tangent

 

[Birdjaguar]

If that's all you got, you got an empty bag and no snipe.

J

That's a quote from Sissy man Trump himself. Are you calling him a liar?

 

[cardgame]

You cannot ignore that for your own political convenience.

thanks for the new signature, it's a gem

 

[AmazonQueen]

Maddow had a good point tonight. Barr said the DoJ guideline says the President cant be indicted but Mueller can determine if criminal activity occurred. We shall see...



I think Nixon was guilty and had a motive to stop the investigation and I think Trump is innocent and had a motive to ensure a fair investigation at a minimum. I was on the fence a long time about this, I figured there had to be something wrong but I'd wait for Mueller. Then I read the redacted application to spy on Page and its BS. That didn't mean Mueller wouldn't find anything, but it would mean this was a fishing expedition based on politically motivated lies. Its like a cop pulling you over and using a dishonest excuse to search your car.

Now maybe there are several sources that were redacted but from what I can read it looks like most of it relies on Steele. He is source #1 and I cant find a 2nd. The first page or two are devoted to him and what a great guy he is. Yes judge, you can trust this man. Trump had prostitutes pee on Obama's bed and Putin has the tape! Maybe the judge didn't get to see the dossier, they might have realized the source lacked credibility. Seems to me one of the big stories here is just how sloppy these people are with our privacy. But FISA abuse? Yaaawwwn.

Congress is his judge and the President has a duty to ensure investigations are just, even when he's the target. Especially when he's the target.



The warrant was to spy on Page, not Trump. The application says the information the FBI was showing the judge arrived from State (Hillary's old stomping grounds) around Oct '16. Thats when Steele was leaking his dossier and he plays a prominent role in the justification to spy on Page. I'd like to see Steele under oath but maybe his foreign status makes that unlikely. I guess hiring Americans for dirty politics has its drawbacks, I thought we learned our lesson about using foreign intelligence from the Iraq War.

The President does not have a duty to ensure investigations into himself are fair. As an interested party he isn't impartial. The Special Counsel is appointed by and reports to the AG, not the President.

 

[Tristan_C]

He openly courted Russia to violate the law in his favor. On television and in tweets multiple times.

Russia, if you're listening, I hope you are able to find the thirty thousand emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.

Such dark humor. There are several prongs in this statement. The fact that there are hordes of desperate human livestock trying to take it literally is the part of the joke that keeps delivering.

 

[Arakhor]

To misquote Samuel Johnson, plausible deniability is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

 

[rah]

Trump calling Mueller a Trump hater is pretty hilarious. And only worthy of an eighth grader.

 

[Berzerker]

Do you support the Russian Federation hacking Mazars in 2020 to release Trump's tax returns and other financial documents to the general public, with the intent of damaging him politically?

If it revealed corruption, of course. Why would I care who provides the light? Well I do a little, but 'I can see clearly now'. After all the political meddling we've done to the Russians I cant really be mad at them for getting some payback.

fwiw I think all tax information should be public domain by law anyways. Everyone. Everywhere. Is there any reason why this shouldn't be a reality given all the crime and malignancy capitalism in the shadows produces? A little tangent

Do you want your neighbors knowing what you do for money, how much you make, and what causes if any you support? If I give money to candidates my neighbor hates, why should they get to know about it?
That will inhibit speech in addition to creating all sorts of other pathologies.

The President does not have a duty to ensure investigations into himself are fair. As an interested party he isn't impartial. The Special Counsel is appointed by and reports to the AG, not the President.

He's CEO, he has a duty to ensure all investigations are fair. Thats part of his oath of office. What if the AG and special counsel are running an unfair investigation? What if they conspire to bring down the President?

 

[rah]

You keep replacing the AG until you find one stupid/loyal enough to do whatever you want them to do. Hmmm, kind of like what Trump did.

I do agree that we should really stop meddling in other countries political processes before we complain TOO loudly when the favor is returned.
This should not be interpreted as an endorsement of Russia meddling in our elections.

 

[Lexicus]

What if the AG and special counsel are running an unfair investigation? What if they conspire to bring down the President?

If the AG is conspiring to bring down the President, the President can fire the AG and appoint a new one. The office of special counsel in this context literally exists so that the President cannot exercise control over investigations into his own wrongdoing. Arguing that the President's oath of office requires him to exercise oversight over investigations into his own wrongdoing is a position so breathtakingly stupid that only a lying fascist would possibly take it.

Of course, bigger-picture, the apparent use of the office of special counsel as a first-resort is a sign of the breakdown of the Republic: a sign that Congress is unwilling or unable to exercise its proper oversight powers over the executive.

 

[Berzerker]

You keep replacing the AG until you find one stupid/loyal enough to do whatever you want them to do. Hmmm, kind of like what Trump did.

The conspiracy charge was unfounded according to Mueller.

edit: or they lacked the evidence of a crime

If the AG is conspiring to bring down the President, the President can fire the AG and appoint a new one. The office of special counsel in this context literally exists so that the President cannot exercise control over investigations into his own wrongdoing. Arguing that the President's oath of office requires him to exercise oversight over investigations into his own wrongdoing is a position so breathtakingly stupid that only a lying fascist would possibly take it.

Wouldn't firing the AG be exercising oversight?

 

[rah]

The conspiracy charge was unfounded according to Mueller.

Tell that to the king-in-chief who seems to think otherwise as he calls out Mueller as a Hater. If Trump thinks Mueller was calling him guilty, you would think his minions would blindly follow like they have for the last couple of years.

And your baseball team batters better cool down this weekend.

 

[Berzerker]

lol, they will. Sundays are my curse.

 

[rah]

The three head will be hoping. Wouldn't want to break our winning streak.

But How can Trump have it both ways? claiming exonerated and calling Mueller a Trump Hater. Is this some type of twisted Trump logic.

 

[Berzerker]

On second thought, you guys will need a small miracle to catch up at the plate but 1-2 SBs can swing the match. I need to get Mallex asap. The theory I heard is Trump didn't read Mueller's report and was pissed off by his less than supportive statement. But Trump was blasting Mueller long before that so their animosity isn't new. If you're gonna claim someone exonerated you, attacking them just makes their verdict more convincing.