Random Thoughts Sechs: Eeeeehhhh...

[The_J]

I'm in a stupid situation. I'm searching for a new job.
I've interviewed for job A. I can have the job. They want a decision on Tuesday.
I've interviewed for job B. They will not decide before next week Friday.

Job A, pros:
- very good interview, people nice
- Pays like 30% than average for this position (but not tremendous)
- easier chance for contract extension
- okay group size, ~20 people
Job A, cons:
- institute15 km outside of the city, requires commuting of 1h each day, minimum, and I hate that
- requires a car, which I do not want to own
- would most likely live in a small (30k) city 30 km outside of a major hub. That small city doesn't have a train station, and getting to the major hub takes 1h by bus
- not much fascination for the country

Job B, pros:
- is in a major world city
- interview was good, but not great
- small group (~6 people), but possibly more interactions, but not sure
- more fascination for the country
Job B, cons:
- pays only average, in a more expensive city
- less chances for a contract extension

I have no idea what to do now. I could tell A that it's a "no", and potentially blow both opportunities. Or I tell A yes, and could also have the second job, and then I'd need to decide if I behave like a dick to A. Or I tell A no, get B, and make possibly a worse decision, at least based on the facts which I have right now. Or I get A, and make possibly a worse decision there, based on my feelings.

 

[rah]

While many will probably tell you to just string A along until you hear from B, I suggest you don't. In the age of social media, while it is unlikely, it's not impossible that there could be negative blow back. The best thing to do is let both opportunities know that another exists and if any compromise is available. This could allow you to know in advance but more importantly, it can let you know if they value enough to do it or it can show just what type of people you're dealing with.

On all the other issues, you're on your own since there's no way I can tell you how to feel on those.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I found a very deformed-looking potato in the bag. I ate it anyways.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I would say yes to A. B is too iffy to plan around. Come up with a list of questions for company B such that if they give you an offer, you can try and fill the gaps in your knowledge to re-assess your position. You may find things out about B you don't like and would have made you pass on them. This way you wind up with a job no matter what.

Example -
A company made me an offer as a manager. I was iffy on the job and they made an offer and it occurred to me that in all of our interviews (there were 4 or 5), they had never introduced me to anyone that I would be managing. So I asked them, will I have a team to lead or would I be a 'manager' in that I'd deal with customers and vendors all day by myself and get blamed when they fail to hold up their end of whatever deal? The answer was the latter and I noped out.

You have raised these issues:

• small group (~6 people), but possibly more interactions, but not sure
• less chances for a contract extension

Those things you can ask them questions about. You may find something there you don't like. And on this one:

• interview was good, but not great

It might have been not so great because you didn't really gel with the team. As much as they were assessing you, you should be assessing them. If the interview didn't go well, there is a good chance that is because it's not a job you'd really want. The boss you work for might have been grumpy or arrogant and would therefor be a bad boss; the questions they asked might not have been answerable because they're things you don't know about and wouldn't necessarily like working on in the first place, etc.

Example -
I miserably crashed and burned an interview recently. I was unprepared but at the same time, the style of interview tipped me off as to the kind of people they hire. It was a pop physics quiz and it's a style of interview that filters for the absolute brightest guys. Unfortunately, intelligence isn't neatly correlated with work output or even competence so in my experience, places like that are staffed with royal buttholes of unbelievable arrogance and mixed aptitudes. I don't think I would have been happy there and it was just as well the interview didn't go well so I didn't have to deal with them anymore. They also had not told me it would be that sort of interview so I didn't have pen or paper with me - it's unusual for a screening call to go like that when you're not fresh out of school.

Maybe your interview was only so-so for reasons that should raise red flags with you?

 

[Takhisis]

I don't know how good your finances are and whether you have more future jobs available, Mr. J, but the bird in hand doctrine might apply in this case.

 

[Birdjaguar]

a really interesting topic. I'm still not quite sure how to best define "rock", what approach to take. imho there's fundamentally 2 different kinds of rock music:

rock, as in a composition: guitar, bass, drums as the focus, possibly but not necessarily a singer and any amount of other instruments. the rockband. this can musically be just about anything, and has great variation. from velvet underground to tortoise the rockband encompasses a huge array of western music from the 1950s onwards.

rock, as in rock music, the historical genre. rock is based in blues string instruments and rhythm section, and many of those principles were later altered and integrated into punk, metal, and many other spawns of rock music. this music is relatively similiar from a composition pov, but still has quite a variety of styles if you really think about it. black metal and progressive rock, but also psychedelic rock really push the boundaries of rock, so even then it's a pretty fluent genre.

is this rock music? it's certainly a rock formation, but has little/none of the blues roots in it. kind of difficult to tell, even for myself. genres only work insofar that music remains generic/formulaic

The Beatles and the British Musical Invasion of 1964 broke American Rock N Roll. Drugs, Sgt Pepper, Tommy and Kids with guitars, shattered it completely. The fallout over the next decade settled into a multi faceted musical gem called Rock n Roll that encompassed an ever expanding set of tastes and styles. For those of us who cut our musical taste in that period, king Crimson was as much Rock n roll as Buddy Holly and the rolling Stones.

 

[Kyriakos]

I'm in a stupid situation. I'm searching for a new job.
I've interviewed for job A. I can have the job. They want a decision on Tuesday.
I've interviewed for job B. They will not decide before next week Friday.

Job A, pros:
- very good interview, people nice
- Pays like 30% than average for this position (but not tremendous)
- easier chance for contract extension
- okay group size, ~20 people
Job A, cons:
- institute15 km outside of the city, requires commuting of 1h each day, minimum, and I hate that
- requires a car, which I do not want to own
- would most likely live in a small (30k) city 30 km outside of a major hub. That small city doesn't have a train station, and getting to the major hub takes 1h by bus
- not much fascination for the country

Job B, pros:
- is in a major world city
- interview was good, but not great
- small group (~6 people), but possibly more interactions, but not sure
- more fascination for the country
Job B, cons:
- pays only average, in a more expensive city
- less chances for a contract extension

I have no idea what to do now. I could tell A that it's a "no", and potentially blow both opportunities. Or I tell A yes, and could also have the second job, and then I'd need to decide if I behave like a dick to A. Or I tell A no, get B, and make possibly a worse decision, at least based on the facts which I have right now. Or I get A, and make possibly a worse decision there, based on my feelings.

Maybe stick with A, see if it works out (due to the place/bus travel etc) and wait for a better position in the near future if not?
I think it is always risky to accept a position and then back out from it. I had to do so once, and the result in the long-run wasn't good (and despite it not being only my fault, it did ruin any ties i had to that publisher).
Furthermore, usually the worst behaved people will make the best possible impression they can the first time you meet them. It is all downhill from then on.

 

[The_J]

Backing out is anyways not a good idea, bc both jobs require me to move min 1500 km ^^.

Financially I am actually quite okay. I would survive even if I make a minus in the worse paid job. Would not want to plan that though ^^.

The best thing to do is let both opportunities know that another exists and if any compromise is available.

I have let both know. A still insists that I decide before B does.
I tell myself that this is bc they want me bc my CV is very good (which absolutely could be).

It might have been not so great because you didn't really gel with the team. As much as they were assessing you, you should be assessing them. If the interview didn't go well, there is a good chance that is because it's not a job you'd really want. The boss you work for might have been grumpy or arrogant and would therefor be a bad boss; the questions they asked might not have been answerable because they're things you don't know about and wouldn't necessarily like working on in the first place, etc.

Na, that was not the issue. Questions etc were fine.
I interviewed with 2 people at the same time, via Skype. The boss seems to be a more serious person, so the atmosphere wasn't super fun, but okay. The second person seemed quite nice, and i think we had a connection. Their interactions were also fine.
At the other position, it was really a nice conversation with a good atmosphere wirh all 3 people.

The thing is that I mainly value my social life at the moment. Yesterday we left with a few ppl work, walked for dinner, and went afterwards for comedy. I do not see anything like that happening at position A, due to location and surrounding. With B, this could very well happen.

Therefore I think to gamble for B.
My contract goes until end of August, and i can get 3 months of unemployment money. So I do not need to rush, and it wouldnt be an issue now if I don't get either.

 

[MaryKB]

I'm sorry you're in such a difficult position, I hope whatever you choose to do things work out the best for you.

If I were in your place, I'd definitely go with your option A: I'm more of a "bird in the hand" kind of person, and holding out for option B feels very risky to me. But I understand your priorities are different than mine, like for me having a social life wouldn't even be a concern at all, lol! My top priority would be security, it's very important to me to know things are going to be stable. Do you only have contract options available? I've been hearing from a lot of people lately (especially in Canada and Europe) about getting jobs that aren't permanent, and that seems very strange and frightening to me.

Good luck!

 

[The_J]

I'm in science. Jobs there are all temporary, unless you are on the way to tenure/professorship. So a permanent position for me is like 10-15 years away, unless I go into industry.
That itself is luckily not an issue for me at the moment, I have accepted that.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I didn't realize you could turn down a job an retain unemployment. That does change things a lot. Do you have any leads on other jobs in a desirable area should either or both of these fall through?

Also, and this may be seen as unethical, but you could take job A and then if a week later job B makes you an offer, rescind acceptance with A. You said B was only like a week or two off from acceptance - or is A expected an immediate start date?

The way that A is trying to force you into an early decision is unfair and I wouldn't feel that bad about accepting and reneging if I felt very strongly about taking job B.

 

[The_J]

Well, I fully understand them. They also have other candidates waiting, so it all makes sense.
Telling them yes and then not taking it wouldn't be a brillaint idea. Both institutes are somewhat in the same area of research, so there's a chance of meeting each other.

And yes, right now I can still turn it down. I'm employed, so they'll not bother me.
I believe more interesting jobs will open up within this time frame, so I'm not desperate.
So... I'm not worried .

 

[Cutlass]

Well, I fully understand them. They also have other candidates waiting, so it all makes sense.
Telling them yes and then not taking it wouldn't be a brillaint idea. Both institutes are somewhat in the same area of research, so there's a chance of meeting each other.

And yes, right now I can still turn it down. I'm employed, so they'll not bother me.
I believe more interesting jobs will open up within this time frame, so I'm not desperate.
So... I'm not worried .

Is there a chance you can relocate to someplace near enough by the further option so that you won't need to get a car?

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Earlier the radio was playing "Hair of the Dog" and I realized that the title is actually a pun of that one repeated line. (Hair of the dog - heir of the dog - son of a [female dog])

I feel very clever that I figured this out myself.

I'm also surprised they were playing it uncensored.

 

[The_J]

Is there a chance you can relocate to someplace near enough by the further option so that you won't need to get a car?

That's be in the middle of nowhere, with nothing in the surrounding -> not for me.

And I've gambled. I told them no. Now gotta see .

 

[Snerk]

Whatever you land on, the opposite would have been the better option. Accept that the univers hates you and move on and do your thing.

 

[rah]

That's be in the middle of nowhere, with nothing in the surrounding -> not for me.

And I've gambled. I told them no. Now gotta see .

Good luck

 

[Kyriakos]

That's be in the middle of nowhere, with nothing in the surrounding -> not for me.

And I've gambled. I told them no. Now gotta see .

When will you be hearing from company B?

It is a gamble, indeed, but if you don't particularly care (and if there is no realistic way of company A affecting future deals with other companies via hearsay) then I suppose there wasn't any harm.

 

[The_J]

No, no harm done there , and I should hear on Friday .

 

[Lexicus]

I've been hearing from a lot of people lately (especially in Canada and Europe) about getting jobs that aren't permanent, and that seems very strange and frightening to me.

If you think temporary work is bad wait until you hear about zero-hour contracts and perpetual on-call scheduling!