Riots in Tottenham after Mark Duggan shooting protest

[Marla_Singer]

I still fail to see how it's so much different from what happened in France in 2005.

It started with Police being involved in someone dying and it slowly turns into a gangsta contest about who'll attract the most media in his hood.

 

[Ayn Rand]

What a disgrace. The majority of people in Britain are sick and tired of these criminals already - watching them take to the streets to get even more benefits from the hard-working average Brits they prey upon is just an insult to every decent person in the country.

In the coming months, I want to see 10- and 20- year sentences dished out to the people involved.

 

[Marla_Singer]

When thinking about, it's kind of intriguing to see how, despite all their efforts to be different, France and the UK remain desperately twin countries.

In reading British comments a bit everywhere on the net, it's just like I travelled 6 years back in time.

 

[Formaldehyde]

In the coming months, I want to see 10- and 20- year sentences dished out to the people involved.

You mean like the cops who apparently beat the 16-year-old girl with batons that supposedly started all this?

Or are you referring to people that damaged or destroyed some property as a result?

 

[Marla_Singer]

EDIT: Sorry FormalDehyde I thought you were talking to me.

 

[Formaldehyde]

NP. Your comment snuck in between the time I read Ayn Rand's post and responded to it.

There are a couple of Youtube posts on Page 8 that mention what apparently started all this.

Here's an update:

'Attack' on teenage girl blamed for start of Tottenham riot

The 16 year-old was said by some witnesses to have thrown a stone at a line of officers during the initial protest at Tottenham police station.

She was then allegedly knocked to the ground, and as the crowds retaliated it led to two squad cars being set alight at the start of a night of violent disturbances and looting.

However by Sunday night the identity of the teenage girl had not been established and the Metropolitan Police were unable to confirm the truth of the alleged incident.

Of course, the story from one of the protesters who was there is entirely different. Watch the video I posted on page 8 for details.

I find this quite interesting:

Asked about the rumours at a press conference, Commander Adrian Hanstock replied: “We are still looking into that. There are conflicting responses to what that incident was. We want to concentrate on the scene, getting the area back to normal.”

No wonder everybody perceives the cops to have attitude problems. It shouldn't be that difficult to find out what happened given that there were apparently dozens of cops present, including high-ranking officers.

I have to admit when I was in London during the late 90s that I was very shocked at the response of a cop to an Indian woman at the changing of the guards at Buckingham Palace. There was a huge crowd that had to stay confined on the sidewalks and weren't allowed in the adjoining roadways except to cross to another sidewalk. I guess it was in case the Queen needed to make a fast getaway, they didn't want any instantaneous motorcade arising from nowhere to run over bystanders. When the woman went out into the road to take a quick snapshot and come back to where she was standing, a cop shoved her back onto the sidewalk and threatened to arrest her. I've never seen anything like that happen in the US, and the crowd didn't even react to it.

 

[carmen510]

If the youth burn enough buildings, it could spark the economy recovery.

Burn all of London!

Well, that did work in Chicago. Maybe you're onto something here...

 

[Traitorfish]

What a disgrace. The majority of people in Britain are sick and tired of these criminals already - watching them take to the streets to get even more benefits from the hard-working average Brits they prey upon is just an insult to every decent person in the country.

I thought that Objectivists regarded the majority as lazy scum by nature? Funny how you all turn into Poujadists when push actually comes to shove...

I still fail to see how it's so much different from what happened in France in 2005.

It started with Police being involved in someone dying and it slowly turns into a gangsta contest about who'll attract the most media in his hood.

I don't think it's that concious. There's been far more reports of people chasing reporters away than of them showing off in front of them.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Anyway, I don't want to sound like an old veteran but British media are clearly committing a mistake in citing exactly where things are happening. This can only incite other dudes to make even worse in their neighbourhood so that it could be broadcasted on all world TVs.

After French riots, the competition between neighbourhoods has been pointed as a major motive for rioters. So much that now when similar events happen in France, we don't mention exactly where it happens and we don't show image. It does look like Soviet TV but up untill now, it did work.

This being said, I won't say more at this stage considering that London images being currently broadcasted on all French TVs, there's a real risk riots spread to Paris.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I don't think it's that concious. There's been far more reports of people chasing reporters away than of them showing off in front of them.

Sorry to say so, but exactly as it happened in Paris 6 years ago. Several journalists covering the events have been assaulted back then.

 

[aelf]

Elect right-wingers in troubled times and watch them bring your country into chaos. How long before this happens in the US too?

 

[amadeus]

Elect right-wingers in troubled times and watch them bring your country into chaos. How long before this happens in the US too?

By the Barack Obama standard of measuring crises, this is Labour's fault.

 

[Traitorfish]

By the Barack Obama standard of measuring crises, this is Labour's fault.

To a significant extent, yes. Thatcher left office in '91, but Thatcherites have maintained an unbroken occupation of Downing Street to this day. How did that happen, if Labour are not in some significant part responsible?

After all, he said "right-wingers". "Conservative Party" is merely one interpretation of that.

 

[Dell19]

Anyway, I don't want to sound like an old veteran but British media are clearly committing a mistake in citing exactly where things are happening. This can only incite other dudes to make even worse in their neighbourhood so that it could be broadcasted on all world TVs.

After French riots, the competition between neighbourhoods has been pointed as a major motive for rioters. So much that now when similar events happen in France, we don't mention exactly where it happens and we don't show image. It does look like Soviet TV but up untill now, it did work.

This being said, I won't say more at this stage considering that London images being currently broadcasted on all French TVs, there's a real risk riots spread to Paris.

Yep don't think its helping as it seems to be spreading around more and more areas now. Someone just mentioned that there has been trouble in Kingston which isn't at all a poor area.

I think I would now support a harsher response from the police as it needs to be stopped as its already out of control.

 

[Janig]

Yep don't think its helping as it seems to be spreading around more and more areas now. Someone just mentioned that there has been trouble in Kingston which isn't at all a poor area.

I think I would now support a harsher response from the police as it needs to be stopped as its already out of control.

I hope you guys are referring to tacit acceptance, that is a matter I dislike also.

An additional problem with both the BBC and Al Jazeera is that they keep referring to the mob actions as "just this" and "just that". Broadcasting is largely about language, so for them to use such misleading language really raises my awareness of how poor they are.

 

[Ayn Rand]

To a significant extent, yes. Thatcher left office in '91, but Thatcherites have maintained an unbroken occupation of Downing Street to this day. How did that happen, if Labour are not in some significant part responsible?

After all, he said "right-wingers". "Conservative Party" is merely one interpretation of that.

That is an interesting point, because Tony Blair was right-wing [as was the New Labour project].

However, Blair made open reference to "third way" policies - which is an open hint at fascism. Blair was much more along the lines of a traditional fascist in his political outlook than he was a Thatcherite or a free-market libertarian.

 

[aelf]

By the Barack Obama standard of measuring crises, this is Labour's fault.

Partly, yes; hence "troubled times". But there's this whole Big Society nonsense that wasn't started by Labour.

 

[Dell19]

I hope you guys are referring to tacit acceptance, that is a matter I dislike also.

It would probably be more productive to spend some time showing people being arrested as some people have been arrested and it might actually act as a deterent. With the gangs moving around, saying that the police have arrived in x area probably just means that they are going to target another area.

Its pretty worrying that its reached the point when people are saying that they aren't going to work tomorrow even though they would purely be going on a train through Clapham. Admittedly it does sound like they a massively overreacting.

Oh and I'm feeling quite glad at the moment that I no longer live near Hackney.

 

[Traitorfish]

That is an interesting point, because Tony Blair was right-wing [as was the New Labour project].

However, Blair made open reference to "third way" policies - which is an open hint at fascism. Blair was much more along the lines of a traditional fascist in his political outlook than he was a Thatcherite or a free-market libertarian.

Ha, no. You're assuming that the idea of a "radical centre" was some sort of uniquely fascist innovation - presumably the similarity of the terms "Third Way" and "Third Position" is throwing you off- but in reality it's a rhetorical trick that has been tried by every formation opting for non-traditional economic policies for over a century, from the early British trade unionists opposed to both socialism and Victorian laissez faire economics, to Italian Eurocommunists trying to hold the line against the Christian Democrats and the one side and beat off the Leninists on the other. Even Louis Napoleon played that card, ferchrissake. It is not unique. It is not unique. (Edit: Not to mention that mainstream British usage came from the post-war Tories and Macmillans "Middle Way".)

Besides, how many times did you actually hear talk of the "third way" being bandied about after Labour's first term? It certainly was the line they won the 2005 election on, that's for damn sure.

 

[Ayn Rand]

Ha, no. You're assuming that the idea of a "radical centre" was some sort of uniquely fascist innovation - presumably the similarity of the terms "Third Way" and "Third Position" is throwing you off- but in reality it's a rhetorical trick that has been tried by every formation opting for non-traditional economic policies for over a century, from the early British trade unionists opposed to both socialism and Victorian laissez faire economics, to Italian Eurocommunists trying to hold the line against the Christian Democrats and the one side and beat off the Leninists on the other. Even Louis Napoleon played that card, ferchrissake. It is not unique.

Ok, so to keep it on-topic - what was the "right-wing" nature of Blair and how did it contribute to the current rioting? I'm interested because I think he was right-wing [albeit fascist] yet you specifically mentioned Thatcherite. Blair had a mix of left- and right-wing policies which destroyed British society very rapidly.