Riots in Tottenham after Mark Duggan shooting protest

[aelf]

That is an interesting point, because Tony Blair was right-wing [as was the New Labour project].

However, Blair made open reference to "third way" policies - which is an open hint at fascism. Blair was much more along the lines of a traditional fascist in his political outlook than he was a Thatcherite or a free-market libertarian.

New Labour was certainly a move to the right, but 'Third Way' was partly the intellectual contribution of Anthony Giddens, who I don't think can really be accused of being fascist.

The problem with New Labour, as Traitorfish said, is the accommodation of the legacy of Thatcherism, probably because it's politically convenient.

 

[Janig]

It would probably be more productive to spend some time showing people being arrested as some people have been arrested and it might actually act as a deterent. With the gangs moving around, saying that the police have arrived in x area probably just means that they are going to target another area.

Its pretty worrying that its reached the point when people are saying that they aren't going to work tomorrow even though they would purely be going on a train through Clapham. Admittedly it does sound like they a massively overreacting.

Oh and I'm feeling quite glad at the moment that I no longer live near Hackney.

There youve done it too. The mob actions are certainly not just, and repeating such nonsense will propagate the matter. I wont stand for it anymore, I will leave this topic and go make the world a better place.

 

[Traitorfish]

Ok, so to keep it on-topic - what was the "right-wing" nature of Blair and how did it contribute to the current rioting? I'm interested because I think he was right-wing [albeit fascist] yet you specifically mentioned Thatcherite.

His economic and political policies were, in the long term, an extension of Thatchers. Variations, of course, less pointless persecution of gays, more funding of education (about the one good thing he did), but the ongoing assault on the unions, on public services, on public liberties, on ethnic minorities, all these things go right back to Maggie. Who, before Blair, would have imagined an anti-union Labour leader?

Blair had a mix of left- and right-wing policies which destroyed British society very rapidly.

You wouldn't happen to be from the South, would you?

 

[Ayn Rand]

His economic and political policies were, in the long term, an extension of Thatchers. Variations, of course, less pointless persecution of gays, more funding of education (about the one good thing he did), but the ongoing assault on the unions, on public services, on public liberties, on ethnic minorities, all these things go right back to Maggie. Who, before Blair, would have imagined an anti-union Labour leader?


You wouldn't happen to be from the South, would you?

Yep, I am but I've lived in the North [will never go back]. I don't really remember Thatcher's government, but Blair's lot were of the opinion that government could solve everything. So the policies you're criciticising are pretty much inevitable when government believes it has a right to step into every area of life and make decisions on it. Also, there were many underlying aspects of Labour's ideology that just seemed to make it a blend of mild left-wing and right-wing fascism. I don't think I ever heard him using the word freedom, except when we were bombing some foreign country of course.

 

[aelf]

Funny, I was under the impression that these riots have a lot to do with the government simply leaving public services in the lurch under the mistaken assumption that things will sort themselves out.

 

[W|M]

[Debate on Blair]

Can't we just all agree that Blair sucked?

 

[Ayn Rand]

Funny, I was under the impression that these riots have a lot to do with the government simply leaving public services in the lurch under the mistaken assumption that things will sort themselves out.

Well people are certainly trying to use them to push their own political agenda, but I've not seen any real and substantial case proving this at all.

Nurses, teachers, university professors, sick people, working people do not appear to be taking part in the riots which one would expect if your premise were true.

 

[aelf]

Who are "working people" and why are the rioters not them?

 

[nonconformist]

One bit of levity, the owner of the burning furniture shop was pretty much crying on TV, and the BBC reporter asked him what his shop looked like.

The poor guy pulled himself together, and with classic Brit humour: "It wouldn't look out of place in Dresden during WW2. I say that cos I've seen photos, I wasn't actually in Dresden in WW2".

 

[Ayn Rand]

Who are "working people" and why are the rioters not them?

 

[aelf]

So you're trying to say that people who are going Galt are not working by definition? Or what?

 

[Ayn Rand]

So you're trying to say that people who are going Galt are not working by definition? Or what?

I have no idea what this means. What does "going Galt" [a phrase from a novel] have to do with this?

 

[nonconformist]

Unconfirmed rumours of violence in Liverpool

 

[carmen510]

To be fair, most of the rioters aren't "working people". But that's because they're youths who've endured education cuts and aren't able to find jobs, not out of lack of their own merit.

 

[nonconformist]

Chalk Farm's rioting

 

[Traitorfish]

Map of riots confirmed so far: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ms...056305&spn=0.39294,0.630341&z=10&source=embed

 

[W|M]

It's a bit strange to see loads of people refer to the police as 'feds', even though I've never heard anyone say 'feds' in Britain.

X-Post. I looked at that map and just saw that there is unrest about 7km (4½ miles) from my house.

 

[Quackers]

1. He's black, not Irish.

You can't be Irish and black? Instituionalised racism within the far-left community shame on you.
By the looks of it he is mixed race - easily one parent could of been white Irish the other afro-caribeaan.

 

[Ayn Rand]

To be fair, most of the rioters aren't "working people". But that's because they're youths who've endured education cuts and aren't able to find jobs, not out of lack of their own merit.

Education spending was rising throughout their childhood. You're going to have to pull a different left-wing dogma out of the bag to explain this.

 

[Marla_Singer]

You can't be Irish and black?

I don't know. You should ask this to the US president, he probably knows better.