RR2- No Worker Paradise

Inherited turn 190:
York: Move a fisherman onto the 2h hill. This gives 16 production. Next turn, the harbor will be at 34/80, which will whip (50% hammer bonus, 45/pop) for 2 pop with max overflow.

Adrianople: Each turn without the market is expensive -- not only is it +25% cash, it gives us two merchant slots. Given that I want to run 100% research, these are even more important -- no commerce -> cash. Unfortunately, whipping for 3 means leaving a merchant slot empty -- not enough pop. That means we either need another person, or to hit the next whip break. We can grow in 2 turns (max food production: 6 of the 11 needed), or we can get to 13 production (at -9 of our 25 food) and whip next turn. I choose the latter, since it's one turn earlier for getting up to the big 40+ cash numbers, and additional pop here won't do much.

Nicaea: We have a GG settled here, but we're building...an archer? I'd much rather have those bonuses on a trebuchet. Can't get much whip overflow, so I stagnate the city to finish the archer in one turn.

Nottingham: We have whip unhappies here, and we're just churning out military, so I'd like to whip more gingerly. On the other hand, we have 5 (5!) spare happies, so I'm fine with whipping 1-pops, despite the happy inefficiency. There aren't a lot of hammers to go around -- it'll be 3 turns.

Thessalonica: This could be a GREAT place to run specialists, given that it can work its 8 (EIGHT!) flood plains, plus city center, to support 5 of them (with no farms...ah well). That will require 13 happies, and it has 12, which isn't so far off. So I decide to let this city continue to grow and wear off its whip-unhappies. Since it has huge health issues, I switch from a mace to an aquaduct.

London: With bureau in play, it makes sense to let London grow as best it can to fully use its bonus. Plus, we want a great scientist. I move the other two specialists into the fields.

Constantinople: Our best production city, by far, at 21 base production. Stagnant on food, maxed out on happies...I'm just gonna let this place do its thing (its thing? Macemen).

Other: Max out research: 188b/t, -49 money. We have but 38. Luckily, our next victim is happy to help!

Spoiler :
fig1ja4.png


Now we're at 168 - 49/t, which is much...less inverted, really.

Turn 191:
London: Horse archer -> archer. Since I don't want to build them in Nicaea, something's gotta do it. Since I don't want to whip in London, things it can build in one turn (base 17, 75% bonus -> 29h/turn. Archer is 25) isn't bad.

Constantinople: Mace -> mace.

Nicaea: archer -> trebuchet, as mentioned. No whip unhappies? Two happies to spare? Lots of uninteresting tiles being worked? Hmm...

Adrionaople: Whip market. Can't use the merchant slots yet, so it uses a couple scientists.

Nottingham: Grows. Micro.

Thessalonica: Nothing happens.

York: whip harbor for 2 pop with 40 overflow.

Other: Joao's stack continues to grow:

Spoiler :
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...so the maceman and horse-archer produced this turn head to Thessalonica (along with a mace already produced), since he's likely to counterattack there. The archer heads to Adrianople, which has our war-stack, but no defenders to leave behind. Our trireme heads east to feed on a barbarian galley, and a trebuchet continues on towards our main stack.

Turn 192:

London: archer -> archer. We'll need more once we start taking Portugese cities.

York: Harbor -> catapult. This is for dealing with Joao's stack (cats are better than trebs outside cities).

Nottingham: unchanged.

Thessalonica: Grows. Unhealthy. Ah well, still +6 food. Keeps on growin'.

Constantinople: Mace next turn.

Adrianople: At 100% research, our gold here (3h/8c) is producing some beakers, but no cash. Sadly, we have no more merchant slots. If only we didn't need the whip so much, I'd be eyeing caste system. Continue work on the forge, but with every pop needed to max out its cash, it'll be a while.

Nicaea: Treb whip for 2 pop.

Other: Nothing of interest really happening. We can hold out one more turn before selling another tech. Education in 2, GP in London (58% sci) in 4.

Turn 193:

London: archer -> archer.

Constantinople: Mace -> Heroic Epic. It's our best production city, and will be for a while -- the next good city we get is Lisbon, but I'd rather build Oxford, Ironworks, Moai...any number of things there. This is bordering on my "stop for consult with the team" line, but I've delayed so long already I'm pressing ahead. This is the last thing I'll be doing in this otherwise uninteresting city.

Nicaea: treb -> treb. Continue to be heavily production-oriented, since this city is basically good for little but whipping, and the pop is too high to whip particularly efficiently.

York: Whip cat, queue up another trireme for our navy.

Nottingham: 1-pop whip the treb. Queue up a maceman, to keep our supply coming as Constantinople finishes the epic.

Thessalonica: Continues to grow.

Adrianople: I take one more look around: No more decisions to be made here in my set.

Other: We're at 30-39 for monies, so it's time to take a look at that again:

Spoiler :
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(bonus: +2 relations)




Spoiler :
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Spoiler :
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Ah, that's better: 320-39. I fail to sell a tech to Joao for 40 money, as I believe we'll be taking everything he has...soon.

Turn 194:

IBT: Willem shows up and asks us to declare war on Joao. I think about it for a bit, since I wasn't planning on doing so this turn. But our stack is in place, our backup is coming, and we can always use the relations bonus.

Education is in. Gunpowder is next. The plan is chem -> lib for steel, which is much faster and more beaker efficient than heading for rifling.

London: archer -> university. That 25% beaker bonus is 12.25b -- nothing to sneeze at!

York: catapult -> trireme. Catapult goes to Thessalonica, in case a Portugese stack heads north there.

Nottingham: trebuchet -> mace. Treb heads east to rendevue with our stack.

Thessalonica: nothing.

Nicaea: Whip trib, queue up horse archer.

Other: our galley wins (90%) and will gain a level. Our stack moves in towards Joao's cities. We're at 281-53/t money, +189b/t, 7 turns to gunpowder.

Turn 195:

IBT: Caesar wants open borders. I'm not sure if he's just scouting us out, or if he really wants to make nice. I take him up on it, however, after making sure he's not WHEOOHA.

Willem makes peace with Joao. Quite a war partner we have there!

London: whip uni, queue up spearman. The lack of archer production this turn does end the conga line, sadly:

Spoiler :
fig7uq2.png


York: Nothing happens.

Nottingham: Max out production. I'd like to whip the maceman soon with max overflow for a uni. We do need 6 for Oxford, and we can produce a reasonable bit of commerce here, comparitively.

Thessalonica: The growth fun continues.

Nicaea: Change my mind, and put the overflow into a uni. I'll switch this out again next turn, and overflow more into it -- this is another case of "not great science city, but has some, and I want Oxford sooner than later."

Other: Make this trade:

Spoiler :
fig8wt3.png


Puts us at 388-52/t, which gives us 7 turns to work with, for now. Our stack, meanwhile, is now in place to start bombarding/attacking next turn.

Turn 196:

IBT: Caesar comes asking for philo. Whyever would he want that? Perhaps to go with his education! No way, dude. Only, after rejecting this, I look at his techs again. Is he REALLY doing that well?! No, the reason we can't trade him paper or edu is because he has neither theology nor civil service, and thus can't research paper. So, that was dumb. Sadly, I realized this after my set.
Joao attacks our stack with a cat, which manages to withdraw after dropping our super war elephant to 2.0/8.0. I try to bring up the log to see what the odds were, but no such luck: crash to desktop. I'm using BUG, so someone is using old BUG. Gr.

London: University -> spearman. I max out the science here, and hit 99b/t. Not bad.

York: Whip a trireme, queue up a university.

Nottigham: Nothing much of interest. Still trying to maximize overflow for a uni (whip next turn).

Nicaea: Micro to be able to whip uni next turn.

Thessalonica: Nothing doin' here. In fact, I'm thinking I'm gonna play a shortened set, and nothing will happen here for the rest of it.

Other: A great merchant is born in London. Dammit. I fortify him in London for now. Our stack bombards Oporto, reducing its defenses to 6%. I'll wait another turn (healing for our stack, plus more bombarding, plus having trebs available) before going in. Our horse archer is dispatched to destroy the cat (left in the open?!) before returning to the stack.

Turn 197:

London: Spearman -> jumbo.

York: Trireme: university. Chugging along. Don't wanna whip this *too* hard, as those 2 commerce coastal squares need quantity to make use of it. Hence, optimized for production.

Nicaea: Whip the university, start on archer. We'll want to grow back onto some of this city's decent commerce/food tiles, and maybe run some scientists.

Nottingham: Whip maceman, queue up university.

Other: The attack goes...horribly. Apparently, 50% means "your trebuchet will retreat 1/4 times" or some such nonsense. Also lose a mace at 95%+ odds, and another at 97%+. Joao has 4 longbows left in the city, but they're all at 1.5 health. Our stack is 3xTreb, 5xCat, 7x'Phant, 2xMace, 1xHA, 1xWarrior (general). There's another stack of a mace and 3 trebs one tile back, coming to reinforce.

We're at 281-50/t, which won't get us through chem and lib, so we'll need to raise some money. We can always sell techs. Of course, we also have a great merchant -- with us having open borders with Caesar we could go on a trade mission to raise funds, settle him in Adrianople for 7.5/t, or start a GAge.
 

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War sets are always the same...

Bang bang, you shot me down.....
Spoiler :
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Bang bang you hit the ground....
Spoiler :
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Bang bang, that awful sound....
Spoiler :
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Bang bang, my baby shot me down.
Spoiler :
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Like Ms. Sarkozy sings :p

On other news:

Techs:
Spoiler :
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Events
Spoiler :
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Something about our liberal views on workers being very advanced for our times....
Spoiler :
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A apostolic palace built by unknowns
Spoiler :
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A great general that went to live to our HE city
Spoiler :
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The tech screen at the end
Spoiler :
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Just 3 reminders for next player:
-Lib steel, start cannons
-Trade for Feud and see if João is willing to cap
-Delete the captured workers! I completely forgot that before making the report :p

Mysty, are your there ? ;)
 

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Let me do my best Fox imitation...Ahem.

London: What is this city for? It has decent output because of bureaucracy, but we should almost certainly move the capital. Right now it's building aimlessly (taoist temple when we're 2 under the happy cap AFTER growing next turn WITH war weariness). At the very least, we should probably build the two monasteries it can, given that it's by far our main research city for now.

Nottingham: Instead of whipping the university, we're working tiles. What tiles? Let's see...we have a 2f tile, a 3f tile, and a pair of 2f/1c tiles. And the whip is 3 pop. Awesome.

Adrianople: Instead of having two merchants and a priest producing 8.75 cash/turn (while we're deficit researching), we're working three 1f/1h/1c tiles, producing 4.05b/t. And we have universities in other cities.

We also have a spearman fortified outside London doing...something? The great merchant is still in London (did we decide on what to do with him?). I fortified him there...but I also noted it and asked what we should do with him.

There are other, more minor, quibbles, but I won't go into those. Perhaps everything is as it should be and I'm missing something, but I don't see any discussion of why things were done in the report. Somewhat frustrating.
 
No need to be frustrated ;)

I'm known for messing with the MM during wars, so all of that you said is not that strange :p

About the GM... that is why the ( now deceased ) DM forum rules stated that GP should not be fortified ( they are easy to miss ). I assumed that it was for a later and greater good ( GA or Sushi )...... I really didn't saw anything useful to do with him ATM

The builds in London are being made with the express propose of letting the city grow. Even with our rules, slavery is getting to the limit of usefulness in our ex-core units, so we need to prepare it for big whips/ extensive drafting

All the rest of the criticism is justified :p I had a really bad weekend and wasn't in my best when I played.
 
All the rest of the criticism is justified I had a really bad weekend and wasn't in my best when I played.

Still a lot better than i play all the time though :lol:

With all the seafood we have the GM should be saved for Sid IMHO. We have another GP in 4 turns which could be burned on a GA.
 
Lib steel, start cannons
Hi guys,

Lib -> nationalism wouldn't it be more powerfull (draft, draft, draft)? you can still research steel (yeah a bad one...) after that...

Cheers
 
My plan was to make cannons while fattening the cities and teching to rifles. Then 10/20 turns of mass drafting

BTW RRR, if mysty doesn't show up, can you do us the favour of playing instead of him?
 
My plan was to make cannons while fattening the cities and teching to rifles. Then 10/20 turns of mass drafting

Good plan... but building the globe before rifling and nationalism is a good idea in this case :) You should trade or tech theater asap to start on theaters...
 
There but unable to play... still :(

Glad to see things going well (as expected).
 
Steel is a MUCH more expensive tech than nationalism, and therefore a better lib target, I think. That said, we can self research nationalism immediately after liberalism. It'd be a coup if we could grab the Taj.

On the other hand, everyone seems to be talking about drafting rifles, and I don't know why. Our opponents won't even have muskets for a while yet, so our stacks can be cannons + warriors -- it really doesn't matter what does the mop-up, because the cannons will be dominant. Given that, I'd advocate one of two plans:

1) SciMeth. This is the key to the non-military late game techs, which would let us make better cities. It doesn't lead to much military (though blimps are awesome), but that's ok, as noted above.

2) Cavalry. Alright, if we *do* want a military tech, I'll take the higher power/movement of cavalry over riflemen in this situation. I think riflemen are a better unit for their time, but we won't be using these units "in their time" -- we'll be dropping them hundreds of years earlier, against longbows and *maybe* muskets. Cavalry may not even require siege to take down cities.


On a completely separate note:
The builds in London are being made with the express propose of letting the city grow. Even with our rules, slavery is getting to the limit of usefulness in our ex-core units, so we need to prepare it for big whips/ extensive drafting.

"Big whips"? Extensive drafting? Don't both drafting and whipping work out better in small cities, when population is cheaper (per food)? Why would we want to grow a city up if that's our plan? I'd still advocate monasteries in our cap while running bureau.
 
On the other hand, everyone seems to be talking about drafting rifles, and I don't know why. Our opponents won't even have muskets for a while yet, so our stacks can be cannons + warriors -- it really doesn't matter what does the mop-up, because the cannons will be dominant. Given that, I'd advocate one of two plans:
2) Cavalry. Alright, if we *do* want a military tech, I'll take the higher power/movement of cavalry over riflemen in this situation. I think riflemen are a better unit for their time, but we won't be using these units "in their time" -- we'll be dropping them hundreds of years earlier, against longbows and *maybe* muskets. Cavalry may not even require siege to take down cities.
Cavs and Cannons are great... if we have some high production cities to churn them out quickly... which we don't.
You can draft a rifleman for 1 pop in any of our useless core cities. We can get them much faster than anything else. 1 pop whipped gives us 30 base hammers. 1 pop drafted into a rifle gives us 110 hammers. Does this sound overpowered to you? It is the best way to give us an army in our situation. Our HE city can build a couple of cannons, and then we should have enough military to take the world in 10-15 turns.

Globe in London to make a drafting farm sounds great.

1) SciMeth. This is the key to the non-military late game techs, which would let us make better cities. It doesn't lead to much military

I have assumed the whole time that we are going for conquest/domination. That means, that once we get our military tech lead, we just pump out as many units as we can, and don't need to research techs like Sci Meth.
 
Cavs and Cannons are great... if we have some high production cities to churn them out quickly... which we don't.
You can draft a rifleman for 1 pop in any of our useless core cities. We can get them much faster than anything else. 1 pop whipped gives us 30 base hammers. 1 pop drafted into a rifle gives us 110 hammers. Does this sound overpowered to you? It is the best way to give us an army in our situation. Our HE city can build a couple of cannons, and then we should have enough military to take the world in 10-15 turns.
Not much to say to that. The only risk is going too far towards military and running into tanks or better before we finish out the game.
Globe in London to make a drafting farm sounds great.
Hard to argue this with all that seafood. Still, we need a way to produce SOME science...at least until rifling, if we want to draft rifles.
I have assumed the whole time that we are going for conquest/domination. That means, that once we get our military tech lead, we just pump out as many units as we can, and don't need to research techs like Sci Meth.

No military tech lead is permanent, so I don't like to give up on research entirely. That said...this is noble. We may win without every seeing a musket.
 
Hi :hatsoff:

I played a short builder round to 1535 AD (10 turns) :):

IHT (207): Trade CS to JC against feudalism + 20 gold...

Spoiler :
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...and quickly vassalize Joao... I guess we are the lord of the "Lord of the lords"! :lol:

Spoiler :
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OB with him
Trade Stone+ 5 gpt to Justinian against clams and banana... I noticed Sankore is open (plus it will make Oxford damn cheap).
Thessa, lisbon switch to a courthouse.
London hires an engeener, switchs to Sankore.
Oporto, Lagos switch to granary...
No EP on Joao, all other leader set to '1' (in the espionnage screen).
Btw why aren't we running a governement civic? :mischief:
Hit enter...

t208: GS is born in London -> academy (in London)
delete workers :cool: (probably going in the south hemisphere beachs... :cool:)

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0526.jpg


whip court in Thessa, granary in Oporto, switch London to settler for overflow in Sankore , to a LB in York.

t209: :coffee:
t210: Start a university in Thessa
Nicea starts a court. Whip the LB and the settler (they go to the cow clam site west of London)...

t211: Adrianople: forge -> court


t212: whip courts in Adrianople, Oporto, Lisbon
whip the granary in Lagos
York finished its university, starts on a jewish monastery (sankore leverage)...

t213: Willem gets Notre Dame (d'Amsterdam apparently :lol:).

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0527.jpg


Adri: court -> uni
Oporto: court -> forge
Lisbon court -> Moai. I thought it was the best place to do it (might as well benefit Justi's stone at 100%), 3 seafoods+forge+2 settled GG made of Lisbon the perfect candidate :). They could have gone in London, but between the GLib and NE, I'd rather put Oxford in London (need to wait for Thessa uni to be finished though)...
Lagos: granary -> courthouse

t214: Liberalism is in! I take theater as discussed... (:rolleyes: I am tired)
Lib -> Steel -> Nationalism (for the draft :ar15:)
We settle a new british colony... Hastings:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0528.jpg


Take Joao's iron in tribute (he wanted 6 resources for it :lol:) in order to make cannons... I give him a spare copper as I feel bad about it...
We start a GA! We switch in HR (I kept bureau for Sankore -> Oxford. They will be both be finished in time to switch in Nationalism before the end of the GA tx to Lisbon's Mausoleum).
Whip court in Nicea.
Cesar is in WHEOOHRN... I move troops on the east coast just in case (I think he is going for us).

Spoiler :
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t215: Nicea starts a jewish temple. I include a cannon in York build queue to whip it next turn...

t216: Justinian got a GE in Nicomedia...
Nottingham: uni -> court
Whip uni in Thessa (so London can start Oxford next turn after Sankore)
Whip cannon in York
Sell Paper to JC (130g) and Justinian as Willem got it...

t217:

Spoiler :
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Justinian rushs Sixtine in Nicomedia :yumyum:

Spoiler :
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London: sankore -> Oxford
Thessa: uni -> jewish monastary... I stop here.

Nationalism is in 2 turns... I think Constitution coulb be nice after that for representation (as cannons will hold until the AIs make it to Military Tradition and cuirassiers, so we aren't in a hurry to go to rifling...) to boost our specialists.

I think we should move fast on the AI (that's why I stopped here) asap...
Willem has some cities but most are still in the jungles. That's why I would attack Justinian, to finish the job + grab some additionnal wonders (Sixtine is annoying in the AI hands)... everything is keepable exception of perhaps his tundra city in the far north east...
But perhaps Cesar will choose for us :D
I think Oporto makes for a good IW... or perhaps in a "soon to be captured" city of Justinian or Willem?

Overview:

Spoiler :
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Techs:

Spoiler :
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Cheers,
Raskolnikov
 

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