SGOTM 21 - Plastic Ducks

[Doshin]

I'd need to check, but in the Golden Age, I think we can generate 3 Great People in the first 5 turns if Whales City gets the first GPerson. We'd need 8 turns if Whales gets the third:

Amsterdam: GScientist x1.
Argos: GScientist x2.​

Whales City: GPerson #1 or #3?
Whales City: GMerchant (= trade mission/GA) or Great Scientist (= Golden Age only)?

• Gift Paper to Mansa. Complete Gunpowder with maximum OF.
• Trade Astronomy with PP and Education, and double bulb SM. Complete Lib with almost 2 turns of beakers OF and take Physics as freebee.
• Communism should be completed in 2~3 turns.
• Physics GScientist bulbs Chemistry.
• 1 more GPerson (Sparta or Argos or Whales) for GA#2.

We could later draft or slow build 12 Muskets and form a second stack with Cannons, after we learn Steel. These would deal with Izzy, while the initial stack turns to Mao.

I think we can get Mansa to research Rifling (for our Tanks) before the game ends.

----

edit: if we can build 12 Tanks in 1-turn, we can move them to Catherine's capital in 1-turn too.

We'd just need to relocate her capital to our continent and build the appropriate railroads, or have Galleons ready to chain the Tanks.

 

[Duckweed]

There are a few things before EOT

We probably should whip some univs given more time to start GA

Whale should, especially we want a GM here.
Sparta is also good for a Univ whip with its commerce
Ams and Argos depends on the GP plan, would be nice to whip to get the bonus sooner.
Corinth can whip this turn

The plan for galleons:

1 or 2 GG galleys
Utrecht: 2 pop whip before GA, need to leave the build next turn
Iron: whip before GA, it could produce a WB for the stone site.
Horse: whip before GA, should whip settler on T139 1st.
Bul could produce 1.
If necessary, we could whip in Knossos and Myc, but Myc is really high on whip anger.

That's probably enough for the 1st wave.

The current and next missionaries are intended for Eretria and Myc

 

[Duckweed]

How much would a GM offer with the trade mission to Timbuktu? I think it might better than a GS could offer 2000/1.2 = 1667 beakers, we could save the Physics GS for GA and use the GM for trade mission, we are going to run out cash after Communism, so Steel is going to take some time.

 

[Kaitzilla]

There are a few reasons that I am against researching Nat ourselves:

• You never know if Mansa produce a GE sometime.
  
• We don't need to draft units as we have ~20 non-siege units already, what we are going to lost in the war are mostly trebs.
  
• Researching Gunpower let us advance to Steel, which is our next goal, cannons are the ultimate war machine in this game.

In order to trade Astro,

1 turn before Mansa complete Astronomy:

• Gift paper to Mansa, Complete Gunpowder with maximum OF
• Trade Astronomy with PP and Gunpowder, and double bulb SM, Complete Lib with almost 2 turns of beakers OF and take Physics as freebee
• Communism should be completed in 2~3 turns.

Edit:
Mansa can't take Gunpowder with Guild or Edu. Maybe we can just trade away Edu+PP.
Do we care about the Economy GM? I think not as the cost of Economy is close to a GM and we don't need Economy before we are ready for AL.
We won't be short of trade bait, so gifting away 2 big techs is fine, they will speed up Mansa's tech pace as well.

It is true that every beaker we spend on Nationalism is one that won't be going into Steel.
Our gold situation is more critical than I thought.
Perhaps it would be best to focus on Gunpowder+Chemistry+Steel ya.


As of Turn 137, our entire invasion force for England consists of:
5 Macemen
4 Swordmen
4 Phalanx
4 Spear
1 Chariot
6 Trebuchets
7 Catapults
1 Great General Chariot (Super Medic)
1 Great General Galley (5)
3 Galleys
1 Trireme (10xp)

Reinforcements coming are:
4 Trebuechets
1 War Elephant
1 Galley

Units in production are:
2 War Elephants

T137 Real Game War Screenshots (England)

Spoiler :

As Duckweed mentioned, Elizabeth has a decent stack of axes built up in York.
In fact, our stack 1S of York is in mild danger since it is Swords+Spear+Chariot+Trebuchets.
We can bring the Maceman from 1E of York down to protect them (promote to Combat II?) and hope that Willem doesn't assault the group with a catapult followed by every single axe which would cause major damage.
Willem's units only have moderate unit courage I think (2 out of 6)

=========================================

How much would a GM offer with the trade mission to Timbuktu? I think it might better than a GS could offer 2000/1.2 = 1667 beakers, we could save the Physics GS for GA and use the GM for trade mission, we are going to run out cash after Communism, so Steel is going to take some time.

Doshin did some calculations on this earlier.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=13755008&highlight=trade+mission#post13755008

How much gold a Trade Mission will give us is based entirely off of the "Base Profit" and the "multipliers".

Originally Posted by DanF5771 View Post
The profit of a trade mission is calculated as:

Profit = 500 + 200*CapitalTradeProfitCapitalTradeProfit is the income this city would get for a trade route to your capital. All modifiers are factored in (Harbor, ToA, CitySize, ConnectionToCapital, OverSeas, Foreign, PeaceTime). Thus the ToA-city is often optimal, but not if it is an inland city close to your capital on the same landmass. Since the Base Profit of a trade route is Min(SizeOfOtherCity, PlotDistance)/10 you should always attempt to have a big capital (wait for growth before starting missions).

For a trade mission, we maximize gold by doing a trade mission to the biggest AI city that is more than our (Capital Population) tiles away.
If Athens is 14 pop, we need to do the trade mission in an AI city 14 or more tiles away.
Then to maximize modifiers, we want the AI city to have the highest population possible and the most modifiers possible (Harbor, Temple of Artemis, etc)

These screenshots illustrate clearly the Base Profit idea:

Spoiler :

For Whale City Walata is 18 population and more than 18 tiles away, so it has a base profit of 18/10=1.8
For Athens, Gao has 17 population and is more than 17 tiles away, so it has a base profit of 17/10=1.7
For Athens, Timbuktu has 17 population and is more than 17 tiles away, so it has a base profit of 17/10=1.7
For Athens, Walata is 18 population and is 16 tiles away, so it has a base profit of 16/10=1.6
So Whale City gets the Walata trade route.

Assuming our capital has 18 population, we need to do a trade mission 18 or more tiles away, so Walata is no good.
We also need a city with a Harbor, so Timbuktu is no good.
The closest city beyond 18 tiles with a harbor and the most population is Gao.

Spoiler :

A trade mission to Gao should yield:
+25% for connection to capital; +100% for Overseas Trade; +150% for Sustained Peace; +20% for Population; +50% for Harbor.
Athens at 17 pop yields: 500+200*(1.7*4.45) = 2000
Athens at 18 pop yields: 500+200*(1.8*4.45) = 2100
Athens at 19 pop yields: 500+200*(1.9*4.45) = 2191 (does game round up or truncate?)

I don't think it's possible for any city to get an intercontinental trade bonus on this map. (+100%)
And even if we did settle an island in the middle of the ocean and gifted it to Liz, we'd lose the population bonus (+20%) and the sustained peace bonus (+150%)

 

[Doshin]

To get an early GMerchant from Whales:

Whales: GP Plan

T136: 6GPP

T140: 8 GMerchants in GA = +96 (---> 102) (GA:8)
T141: 8 GMerchants in GA = +96 (---> 198) (GA:7)
T142: 8 GMerchants in GA = +96 (---> 294) (GA:6)
T143: 9 GMerchants in GA = +108 (---> 402) (GA:5)

T144: GMerchant @ 402/400 (GA:4)​

Amsterdam: GP Plan

T136: 102GPP
T137-9: run 1 Scientist for +6GPP total (---> 108)

T140: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 180) (GA: 8)
T141: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 252) (GA: 7)
T142: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 324) (GA: 6)
T143: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 396) (GA: 5)
T144: 9 GScientists in GA = +108GPP (---> 504) (GA: 4)

T145: GScientist @ 504/500GPP (GA: 3)​

Argos: GP Plan

T136: 112GPP.

T140: 5 GScientists at +60 (---> 172) (GA: 8)
T141: 6 GScientists at +72 (---> 244) (GA: 7)
T142: 6 GScientists at +72 (---> 316) (GA: 6)
T143: 6 GScientists at +72 (---> 388) (GA: 5)
T144: 18 GScientists at +216 (---> 604) (GA: 4)

T145: GScientist @ 604/600GPP (GA: 3)​

T146: Lib. Physics? (GA: 2)
T147: finish Communism? (GA: 1)
T148: (GA ends)

-----

I haven't looked at the food situation. Can Argos reach size 18 by T144?

Argos has to push quite hard to help us produce 2 GScientists on T145.

Whales is the bottleneck. It has ~0GPP now and, with +12F surplus, cannot sustain ~100GPP per turn as easily as Amsterdam and Argos.

Producing 3 GPeople 3 turns in a row (T144/5/6) is easy enough. We could also start the GA 1-turn sooner to do this, but this will interfere with Communism.

If Whales produces the 3rd GPerson, it will only be produced on T148/9 (need to check).

 

[Duckweed]

As Duckweed mentioned, Elizabeth has a decent stack of axes built up in York.
In fact, our stack 1S of York is in mild danger since it is Swords+Spear+Chariot+Trebuchets.
We can bring the Maceman from 1E of York down to protect them (promote to Combat II?) and hope that Willem doesn't assault the group with a catapult followed by every single axe which would cause major damage.
Willem's units only have moderate unit courage I think (2 out of 6)

Don't worry, York is surrounded by outnumbered units, so units inside York dare not to attack.

But because non-siege units are not enough, so make sure that you also move the GG chariot towards York this turn and use the GG galley next turn to ship the WE so that it can attack York from galley. Edit: The GG galleys has 2 movement left so it can move 2E this turn, pick up Mace2 1st and then goes to Ams to pick the WE.. York should be down in 2 turns.

Just a remind, the reinforced galley can be used to ship a missionary to Eretria 1st.

To get an early GMerchant from Whales:

Whales: GP Plan

T136: 6GPP

T140: 8 GMerchants in GA = +96 (---> 102) (GA:8)
T141: 8 GMerchants in GA = +96 (---> 198) (GA:7)
T142: 8 GMerchants in GA = +96 (---> 294) (GA:6)
T143: 9 GMerchants in GA = +108 (---> 402) (GA:5)

T144: GMerchant @ 402/400 (GA:4)​

Amsterdam: GP Plan

T136: 102GPP
T137-9: run 1 Scientist for +6GPP total (---> 108)

T140: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 180) (GA: 8)
T141: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 252) (GA: 7)
T142: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 324) (GA: 6)
T143: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 396) (GA: 5)
T144: 9 GScientists in GA = +108GPP (---> 504) (GA: 4)

T145: GScientist @ 504/500GPP (GA: 3)​

Argos: GP Plan

T136: 112GPP.

T140: 5 GScientists at +60 (---> 172) (GA: 8)
T141: 6 GScientists at +72 (---> 244) (GA: 7)
T142: 6 GScientists at +72 (---> 316) (GA: 6)
T143: 6 GScientists at +72 (---> 388) (GA: 5)
T144: 18 GScientists at +216 (---> 604) (GA: 4)

T145: GScientist @ 604/600GPP (GA: 3)​

T146: Lib. Physics? (GA: 2)
T147: finish Communism? (GA: 1)
T148: (GA ends)

-----

I haven't looked at the food situation. Can Argos reach size 18 by T144?

Argos has to push quite hard to help us produce 2 GScientists on T145.

Whales is the bottleneck. It has ~0GPP now and, with +12F surplus, cannot sustain ~100GPP per turn as easily as Amsterdam and Argos.

Producing 3 GPeople 3 turns in a row (T144/5/6) is easy enough. We could also start the GA 1-turn sooner to do this, but this will interfere with Communism.

If Whales produces the 3rd GPerson, it will only be produced on T148/9 (need to check).

I'd prefer GMs than GS after the 1st 2 GSs to bulb SM.

 

[Doshin]

Or, a size 13/4/5 Whales city can run 11 GMerchants for 3 turns. Old picture from T136 (city now @ size 13):



11*12 = 132
132 * 3 = 396 + 6 = 402/400GPP.

This would finish on T143.

IDK if Argos has enough food and pop to reach 388/400GP on T143, and then 604/600GPP on T144.

 

[Doshin]

(4) Athens Micro (68GPP ---> ???)

T137

Current EOT:

Spoiler :

1) Change build to Harbor.

2) Take island Village (2E) from Thebes.

3) Give Hamlet to Corinth (2S1W):

T138

Spoiler :

Change build to University. Whip University.

Work Windmill + Grass Mine. Corinth continues to work Hamlet 2N1W of Athens.

T139

Spoiler :

Build Harbor @77H.

Take Hamlet/Village back from Corinth (if a Village). If not a Village, work the Coast.

Work Grassland Mine.

T140

Spoiler :

Harbor completes. Begin Oxford.

Work Windmill, but not the Mine.

T141

Spoiler :

Golden Age begins:



In Athens, stick with Oxford, and work Mine and Windmill:

T142

Spoiler :

Stick with Oxford, and work Mine and Windmill:

T143

Spoiler :

Switch to Galley @ 12HPT. No Mine, no Windmill.

T144

Spoiler :

Stick with Galley @ 12HPT. Still no Mine, still no Windmill.

T145

Spoiler :

Astronomy:



Athens starts an Observatory, and works the Windmill for +15H:

T146

Spoiler :

Athens still builds an Observatory, and still works the Windmill for +15H:

T147

Spoiler :

Athens still builds an Observatory, and still works the Windmill for +15H:

T148

Spoiler :

We switch into Slavery + State Property:



Athens still builds an Observatory, and still works the Windmill, which now amounts to +16H:

T149

Spoiler :

The Golden Age ends:



Athens still builds an Observatory, and still works the Windmill, which now amounts to +9H:

T150

Spoiler :

Another Golden Age begins:



Athens still builds an Observatory, but now works the Windmill + Mine, which now amounts to +24H

T151

Spoiler :

RUN THE GREAT MERCHANT MISSION BEFORE MANAGING ATHENS.

The Galleon (24/80H) must be whipped:



Work max hammers (Mine + Windmill):

T152

Spoiler :

The Observatory must be whipped:



Work max hammers (Mine + Windmill):

T153

Spoiler :

We connect Stone:



IF WE DON'T CONNECT STONE, BUILD WEALTH AND DELAY DEER CHOP.

A Worker on the Deer finishes the chop:

T134

Spoiler :

Oxford completes:

 

[Duckweed]

I only say the general preference. Make sure that beakers 4550/1.2/4= 950 bpt and cash are enough to complete Communism in 2 turn.

 

[Doshin]

EOT micro suggestions:

(1) Athens/Corinth/Thebes:

Spoiler :

Corinth: take the Hamlet 2S1W from Athens.
Athens: take the Village on the island.
Thebes: work a Coastal tile.

(2) Knossos/Utrecht/kwaDukuza:

Spoiler :

Knossos: change Deer to Grassland Farm. (–2F –1H –1C)
Utrecht: take Deer. (+2F +1H –1C; on T138: can work one more tile: +1F +1C)
kwaDuk: change Windmill to riverside Grass Farm (+1F –1H)

Let me think about the GA/GP/research plan a little more.

 

[Doshin]

GA / GP Plan


(1) Argos: GS#1 (112 ---> 436GPP)

Spoiler :

T137: 112GPP. Whip University.

T141: 9 Scientists @ +108 (---> 220) (GA: 8)
T142: 9 Scientists @ +108 (---> 328) (GA: 7)
T143: 9 Scientists @ +108 (---> 436) (GA: 6)​

T144: GScientist @ 436/400GPP (GA: 5)​

T144: 0 Great People @ 0 (---> 36) (GA: 5)

T145– TBD by location of Oil.​

(2) Amsterdam: GS#2 (102 ---> 504GPP)

Spoiler :

T137: 102GPP. Start University.​

T138: Whip University. Change Horse ---> Coast.
T139: no Horse.
T140: change 1x Coast to 1x Scientist @ +6GPP. (---> 108GPP)​

T141: 8 Scientists (Work 4x food, 1x Horse) @ +96GPP (---> 204) (GA: 8)
T142: 8 Scientists (Work 4x food, 1x Horse) @ +96GPP (---> 300) (GA: 7)
T143: 8 Scientists (Work 4x food, 1x Horse) @ +96GPP (---> 396) (GA: 6)
T144: 9 Scientists (Work 4x food.) @ +108GPP (---> 504) (GA: 5)​

T145: GScientist @ 504/500GPP (GA: 4)​

T145– TBD by location of Oil.​

T145: double-bulb Scientific Method. Start Liberalism. (GA: 4)
T146: start Communism. (GA: 3)
T147: continue with Communism (GA: 2)
T148: finish Communism. (GA: 1)​

(3) Whales City: GM #1 (6 ---> 606GPP)

Spoiler :

T137: 6GPP. Whip University.

T141: 8 Merchants in GA @ +96GPP (---> 102) (GA: 8)
T142: 8 Merchants in GA @ +96GPP (---> 198) (GA: 7)
T143: 8 Merchants in GA @ +96GPP (---> 294) (GA: 6)

T144: 2 Merchants in GA @ +24GPP (---> 318) (GA: 5)

T145: 8 Merchants in GA @ +96GPP (---> 414) (GA: 4)
T146: 8 Merchants in GA @ +96GPP (---> 510) (GA: 3)
T147: 8 Merchants in GA @ +96GPP (---> 606) (GA: 2)​

T148: GMerchant @ 606/600GPP (GA: 1)​

(4) Athens: GM/GS (68GPP ---> ???)

No Specialists for now. Focus is on growth and production (for Oxford/Bureau/trade missions) instead:

Spoiler :

SEE POST #1348 FOR PPP AND TEST FILE.​

(5) Sparta: GE/GProphet/GArtist (300GPP ---> ???)

Spoiler :

Only rule: run a GEngineer on T141, and continue to run throughout the Golden Age.

Will reassess this city on T145.​

 

[Kaitzilla]

To get an early GMerchant from Whales:

Whales: GP Plan

T136: 6GPP

T140: 8 GMerchants in GA = +96 (---> 102) (GA:8)
T141: 8 GMerchants in GA = +96 (---> 198) (GA:7)
T142: 8 GMerchants in GA = +96 (---> 294) (GA:6)
T143: 9 GMerchants in GA = +108 (---> 402) (GA:5)

T144: GMerchant @ 402/400 (GA:4)​

Amsterdam: GP Plan

T136: 102GPP
T137-9: run 1 Scientist for +6GPP total (---> 108)

T140: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 180) (GA: 8)
T141: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 252) (GA: 7)
T142: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 324) (GA: 6)
T143: 6 GScientists in GA = +72GPP (---> 396) (GA: 5)
T144: 9 GScientists in GA = +108GPP (---> 504) (GA: 4)

T145: GScientist @ 504/500GPP (GA: 3)​

Argos: GP Plan

T136: 112GPP.

T140: 5 GScientists at +60 (---> 172) (GA: 8)
T141: 6 GScientists at +72 (---> 244) (GA: 7)
T142: 6 GScientists at +72 (---> 316) (GA: 6)
T143: 6 GScientists at +72 (---> 388) (GA: 5)
T144: 18 GScientists at +216 (---> 604) (GA: 4)

T145: GScientist @ 604/600GPP (GA: 3)​

T146: Lib. Physics? (GA: 2)
T147: finish Communism? (GA: 1)
T148: (GA ends)

-----

I haven't looked at the food situation. Can Argos reach size 18 by T144?

Argos has to push quite hard to help us produce 2 GScientists on T145.

Whales is the bottleneck. It has ~0GPP now and, with +12F surplus, cannot sustain ~100GPP per turn as easily as Amsterdam and Argos.

Producing 3 GPeople 3 turns in a row (T144/5/6) is easy enough. We could also start the GA 1-turn sooner to do this, but this will interfere with Communism.

If Whales produces the 3rd GPerson, it will only be produced on T148/9 (need to check).

The details here are full of devils.

Here is my Golden Age and tech estimate:
T137 2024 895/2275 in Liberalism
Set slider to 0% and put tech overflow into Liberalism.
T138 2252 1890/2275 in Liberalism
0% slider, most universities and libraries whipped on the end of this turn.
T139 2580 Elizabeth city captured for 100
Set slider to 100% on Gunpowder
T140 2080, 1020/1950 in Gunpowder
Set slider to 80% on Gunpowder
T141 1720, 1835/1950 in Gunpowder. Trigger Golden Age
0% slider
T142 2070
0% slider
T143 2520 Elizabeth city captured for 100
If Mansa will have Astro in 2 turns, set slider to 30% Liberalism to almost complete it.
T144 2590
Set slider to 100% on Gunpowder
T145 2040, double bulb Scientific Method
Set slider to 100% Sci. Method if Sci. Method didn't complete, else 100% on Liberalism
T146 1500, Liberalism is ours, Communism is unlocked, choose free Physics
Set slider to 100% Communism
T147 950, 3400/4300? in Communism
Set slider to 100% Communism
T148 400, revolt to state property + slavery
Set slider to 80% on Chemistry
T149 0, Golden age ends

Thus, I think we should delay golden age until T142.
Even if we do perfect overflows, T141 is earliest we can do golden age.
If we can't do Communism in 2 turns or Mansa slows down on Astro teching 1 turn between T141-T145 (I've seen AI do this on big techs), we are screwed without a buffer.

So, Golden Age Turn 142 please.
Unless you know how to make Liberalism give us a free tech at the end of the turn instead of the beginning.

 

[Doshin]

4550/1.2/4= 950 BPT

The last picture of showing our tech rate had it at 752 BPT:

Spoiler :

So we'd need to add +200BPT to our current tech rate.

T144: finishing Gunpowder = Colossus + GA boosting tiles
T145: finish Liberalism = GA (Colossus obsolete)
T146: start Communism (~1900B OF, +950)
T147: finish Communism (~2850B + 950B = 3800B *1.2 = 4560/4550)​

We mostly need to grow cities when the slider is turned down and get multipliers into the big cities. A University in Athens will add +50BPT during the GA.

Then it comes down to micro, growing cities as much as possible before T143 (hit the double bulb #), maximizing OF from Gunpowder and Liberalism, and working commerce tiles from T144–7.

We can watch Mansa's tech rate closely between T137–41. He is Spiritual and doesn't need to upgrade troops, so it should be predictable.

 

[Kaitzilla]

edit: if we can build 12 Tanks in 1-turn, we can move them to Catherine's capital in 1-turn too.

We'd just need to relocate her capital to our continent and build the appropriate railroads, or have Galleons ready to chain the Tanks.

Thanks to Combustion we should have Transports (6 with Circumnavigation bonus) instead of Galleons. They can hold 4 units.

Catherine's capital is to the northeast of Isabella's lands.

To move our 12 tanks in 1 turn would take 12 to 15 transports.

1 turn to cold whip the tanks.
1 turn to load them onto transports and get them near Catherine's coast.
1 turn to sail them into her coastal city and drive the tanks 5 tiles into her inland capital.

4550/1.2/4= 950 BPT

The last picture of showing our tech rate had it at 752 BPT:

Spoiler :

So we'd need to add +200BPT to our current tech rate.

T144: finishing Gunpowder = Colossus + GA boosting tiles
T145: finish Liberalism = GA (Colossus obsolete)
T146: start Communism (~1900B OF, +950)
T147: finish Communism (~2850B + 950B = 3800B *1.2 = 4560/4550)​

We mostly need to grow cities when the slider is turned down and get multipliers into the big cities. A University in Athens will add +50BPT during the GA.

Then it comes down to micro, growing cities as much as possible before T143 (hit the double bulb #), maximizing OF from Gunpowder and Liberalism, and working commerce tiles from T144–7.

We can watch Mansa's tech rate closely between T137–41. He is Spiritual and doesn't need to upgrade troops, so it should be predictable.

We have to manage 950 per turn after the Colossus obsoletes?
I forgot about that.
gah!

Also, the closest I can get to Gunpowder and Liberalism without completing is within 100.
So when I overflow twice, 200 could be missing.
Wish the slider was in 1% increments instead of 10%.
So it could be 4 turns trying to average 1000 per turn with a Colossus obsoleting partway through.

Golden age on T142 would help me sleep at night, but if you guys want to push I'll do T141.
Worst thing that happens is we miss getting Communism before golden age ends and we have to wait until next golden age to switch to State Property.

 

[Doshin]

1 turn to cold whip the tanks.
1 turn to load them onto transports and get them near Catherine's coast.
1 turn to sail them into her coastal city and drive the tanks 5 tiles into her inland capital.

Yep, but what if we move her capital to a coastal location?

And what if that coastal location is on our home continent?

We have to manage 950 per turn after the Colossus obsoletes?
I forgot about that.
gah!

Are you adjusting the base tech rate upwards for Immortal difficulty?

Historically, Duckweed and kossin have approximated BPT in our games, so I am sure they could give a better estimate than me.

There is always the build Research option, if we are short. GScientists could be run in non-urgent GP farms, like Sparta.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Yep, but what if we move her capital to a coastal location?

And what if that coastal location is on our home continent?

Well, first we'd need a war to knock her down to 3 or less cities.
Cease fire, give her a new capital, and then DOW again to finish off the rest of her cities.
Could we get open borders with her after 2 ugly wars to put our troops into her capital?

Would save us 2 turns if we did things that way ya.

Are you adjusting the base tech rate upwards for Immortal difficulty?

Historically, Duckweed and kossin have approximated BPT in our games, so I am sure they could give a better estimate than me.

There is always the build Research option, if we are short. GScientists could be run in non-urgent GP farms, like Sparta.

I'm estimating from our 750 tech rate last turn and sort of guessing going forward.
Universities, the fish iceball cities, and 3 new Elizabeth cities, and the golden age + Colossus obsoleting will all affect our tech rate, but I don't really know how much.

Duckweed and Kossin estimating our per turn from Turn 137 to Turn 150 would be very appreciated.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Turn 137 Real Game Photodump!

Full military screenshots with England are Here


Empire
(South Islands, capital, and northeastern cities)

Spoiler :

Miletos


Ephesus


Halicarnassus


Rhodes


Pergamon


Whales City


Thebes


Athens


Argos


Corinth

(Northeastern and central cities)

Spoiler :

Iron City


Pharsalos


Mycenae


Sparta


Eretria


Knossos


Utrecht


Horse City


Megara


uMgungundlovu

(Western cities and captured Dutch + English cities)

Spoiler :

kwaDakuza


Amsterdam


The Hague


Nobamba


Bulawayo


Ulundi


Rotterdam


Canterbury


Hastings

 

[Kaitzilla]

Strategic Screenshots

Louis

• Orleans - Mausoleum, Statue of Zeus, Pyramids
• Lyons - Shwedagon Paya, Parthenon
• Paris - Great Library, Stonehenge

Spoiler :

Mao

Spoiler :

Mansa

Spoiler :

Isabella

Spoiler :

Catherine

Spoiler :

Tokugawa

Spoiler :

The World (Widescreen shots @_@)

Spoiler :

 

[Kaitzilla]

Interesting Screenshots
Note that Mansa is building a wonder in Timbuktu.

Spoiler :

And Elizabeth has some gold to steal.
How much gold Elizabeth currently has is an interesting calculation.

Spoiler :

Stealing the gold from London costs 2731 espionage.
The base_espionage is 3*gold_you_can_steal.
The final espionage cost (2731) is base_espionage*multipliers.
Multipliers are +29% because she outspent us, +40% because her religion is present in the city and we aren't Jewish, and +20%? because of distance penalty.
In this case, rough estimate without using FLOOR is 2731/1.2/1.4/1.29=1260 base_espionage cost.
1260/3=420 gives us the gold that would be stolen from London.
So a very rough estimate is that it would cost us 2731 espionage to steal 420 gold from London.

London has 12 pop and the English empire has 32 pop, so we can only steal 12/32th of England's gold from London.
That implies that England has 420*(32/12) = 1120 gold.

Perhaps in 30 turns, if Liz still has the gold, we can get the holy city benefit to cancel out the distance penalty, the spending penalty will be more even, and we can get -50% stationary and -40% culture bonus in Elizabeth's only city.
Then stealing 1120 gold would only cost 3360*0.5*0.6 = 1000 espionage hmm.
That's probably more than we can generate. Maybe at the end of the game we can try if the gold is still there.

Less Interesting Screenshots

Spoiler :

(Parthian the barb city. We have 90% culture on the city tile, so it will revolt to us soon!)

Spoiler :

And speaking of revolting, Elizabeth's future capital Coventry will be in danger of revolting in future turns.
The Hague is putting 7 per turn onto it.
If it revolts twice, that will be the end of Elizabeth and our Gold Laurel chances!!!

Spoiler :

I'm 99% sure gifted cities can't flip no matter how many times they revolt.
If we acquire the barb city through culture pressure, we should gift it to Liz in my opinion.

 

[Doshin]

If we share a war with a hostile Cathy, she'll open borders. We could bribe her into a shared war against Tokugawa before we take her cities.

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For finances, well, someone else can decipher this



Of the 158 worked tiles, we're working 12 that offer zero commerce, and 73 coastal tiles.

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@Kaitzilla

TAlso, the closest I can get to Gunpowder and Liberalism without completing is within 100.
So when I overflow twice, 200 could be missing.

Remember that we will be running several Scientists from the first turn of the GA (T141/2&#8211.

If this is on T141, at the minimum, Argos and Amsterdam would run 8 Scientists, with 3BPT each.

(8 * 3) * 2 = 48B * 1.5 = 72BPT​

So you can use these beakers to help top up Liberalism and Gunpowder, if you are ~100B short.

And there is a small amount of flexibility, e.g. :

Argos

T141: 8 GScientists at +96 (---> 208) (GA: 8)
T142: 8 GScientists at +96 (---> 304) (GA: 7)
T143: 8 GScientists at +96 (---> 400) (GA: 6)​

Could change to:

Argos

T141: 6 GScientists at +72 (---> 184) (GA: 8)
T142: 9 GScientists at +108 (---> 292) (GA: 7)
T143: 9 GScientists at +108 (---> 400) (GA: 6)​

... depending on where the beakers are needed.