pre-release info Shawnee - Exploration Age Civilization Discussion

pre-release info
The problem here is that special units or constructions, no matter how many different people used them, tend to be reserved in-game for one specific Civ or Leader.
There's no reason you can't still do that while enabling their use to a wider variety of civs. You'd just make the UU stronger. Not dissimilar from present circumstances, knights are available, but stronger UU knights are available on a limited offering.
Goths, Russia, and numerous other steppe peoples used wagon forts, wagenburgs, gulai gorod, but the Hussites turned them into Renaissance Tanks with firearms, so if such a thing appears in the game, it will most likely be a Unique for Exploration Age Bohemia.
From my view, a civ evolving into Mongolia based on something like # of horses available makes sense. Sort of. Not exactly Mongolia specifically, but if you imagine Mongolia as a kind of stand-in for whatever alt-history X turns into after moving onto a steppe region particularly supportive of pastoralism, it does.

It makes similar sense, conceptually, for civics roughly akin to strategic doctrines to emerge that allow unit selections which conceivably counter such evolutions, both from a gameplay perspective and from the immersion, 7-as-dynamic-living-world perspective. The wagon fort is a particularly good example, because its a common response to that stimuli historically.

I don't expect to see that in 7 but I would delight if such concepts are there eventually.
 
There's no reason you can't still do that while enabling their use to a wider variety of civs. You'd just make the UU stronger. Not dissimilar from present circumstances, knights are available, but stronger UU knights are available on a limited offering.

From my view, a civ evolving into Mongolia based on something like # of horses available makes sense. Sort of. Not exactly Mongolia specifically, but if you imagine Mongolia as a kind of stand-in for whatever alt-history X turns into after moving onto a steppe region particularly supportive of pastoralism, it does.

It makes similar sense, conceptually, for civics roughly akin to strategic doctrines to emerge that allow unit selections which conceivably counter such evolutions, both from a gameplay perspective and from the immersion, 7-as-dynamic-living-world perspective. The wagon fort is a particularly good example, because its a common response to that stimuli historically.

I don't expect to see that in 7 but I would delight if such concepts are there eventually.
Was not posting what I would WANT to see, but what has been seen in past games and so should really be expected in this one.

In my Perfect 4X Historical Game (WIP for the rest of my Natural Life, I suspect) I would offer each Civ/player a selection of 'Unique' Units, Buildings, Districts, whatever at various points in the game.

Get Horse Resources?
You have a choice of being able to build a light horseman, a horse archer, or an armored horseman - but to get the horse archer, you have to adopt a Pastoral Civ lifestyle.

Got Pastoral neighbors?
Then you get a choice of Fixed Border Walls (Long or Great Wall, Hadrian's Wall, Offa's Dyke, etc)
OR Militarized Border - every Settlement/City near that pastoral border loses X percentage of its Production (including Food) BUT can build Units that start with a Promotion or Bonus (OR in Civ VII terms, automatically produce a new Army Leader every X turns).

Basically, I would love to see a game in which many of the unique aspects of your Civ are acquired during the game, not given to you regardless of the in-game situation of your Civ. Never fight a war, what do you need with a Military/Combat Bonus? - And more to the point, how do you develop such bonuses if you never fight a war?

My idea of a good game design revolves around:

"Ships in Deserts is Camels"

- If all your Civ is in a land-locked desert, you should not even be able to research 'Boating' or "Sailing" or anything like them. You are stuck with Camels whether you like it or not. You want real ships, look for large bodies of water or navigable Rivers.
 
Basically, I would love to see a game in which many of the unique aspects of your Civ are acquired during the game, not given to you regardless of the in-game situation of your Civ. Never fight a war, what do you need with a Military/Combat Bonus? - And more to the point, how do you develop such bonuses if you never fight a war?
That reminds me of Millennia.
 
That reminds me of Millennia.
Yeah. Sad to say between Humankind and Millenia they took a lot of good ideas and implemented them so badly that everyone will regard them negatively for years.

The idea of implementing Civ Uniques through in-game activities is not intrinsically bad, but Millenia tried to do virtually everything in the game that way. That went much too far, and made the individual Civs completely non-individual.

If there's a lesson from the two games, it is that the gamer has to be able to instantly and consistently identify with his/her Civ throughout the game. When everything about the Civ is either changeable or changes periodically with no graphic continuation, identification is lost and so is immersion.

That's my opinion, anyway: bought both games, haven't played more than 100 hours in either one, don't foresee ever playing another 10.
 
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Shawnee - Background art
 
Quality of life/ civ change

Petition for Tecumseh color change to the 3rd and/or 4th color slots. The files are out with the four color palettes. I assume we will have the option to choose our color later on like in civ 6. Changing the 3rd and 4th color slot allows for the player to choose without conflicting with existing AI color schemes.

3rd - Magenta and white, every Native American loves the color of wampum and grape dumplings.

4th - Red and yellow - Most Shawnees are Absentee Shawnees. Red and yellow is the color of their flag. In a little town in Oklahoma named Tecumseh. Also the colors of the British coat Tecumseh wore in the war of 1812.

Other options Red and black, Black and Red, either of the reds.

Yall did a good job on the Shawnee. I have 2 gripes:
  • Every unit should wear mocassins. Mocassins are custom made, no warrior would go out barefoot. Their auntie would be shamed.
  • The Shawnee Arbuseir looks STUPID. The Shawnee could have worn those STUPID kettle hats and breastplates if they had only seen them. Except they did see the colonists taking them off because they didn't work very well. The same reason the woodland nations never put them on in the first place. There are quite a few paintings of warriors carrying the arbuseir resting sticks around in our tribal history museum.
 
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The Shawnee's unique ability should apply to ALL FRESH WATER. Ahistorical starting preferences that don't make since, cripple any Mississippi to Shawnee runs. The Mississippi should have Nav river preference. Where is Cahokia? Mississippi/ Michi sipi, literally means big river. A name given to the ancestors by archeologists. But a name based on shared characteristics, big river. By not settling Mississippi where they should be, your crippling the Shawnee in Exploration. Changing Shawnee's unique ability to what it should be, all fresh water will fix it. In history, that included swamps and wetlands. Wabash means swamp.

  • Mississippi should have nav river spawn preference
  • Shawnees unique ability should apply to all fresh water
 
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