Shooting at Wilders speech in Texas

[Lohrenswald]

I was under the impression that Islamic explicitly dictates that Jews, like Christians and Zoroastrians, shouldn't be killed, because they're monotheists.

It's not purely because of monotheism, but rather that Judaism and Christianity are the "precuels" to Islam. They are referred to as "the people of the book"

 

[Farm Boy]

First of all, I didn't insult anything, I gave facts about the content of the Koran and the Hadith. Second, by criticizing an ideology I'm not saying anything about the people. Obviously there are varying degrees to which the ideology is followed. I really don't know why this is so difficult for you.

Ah, right. Facts. Well, facts is facts. Good of you to educate the millions and millions of non-violent Muslims that they're doin' their ideology incompletely and wrong. That thar's a positively enlightening public service. Keep fighting the righteous fight.

 

[Kyriakos]

This Wilders person just looks dodgy. Is that a thing with NU-Dutch politicians?





Wasn't he in that Steven Seagal film?

 

[BvBPL]

Granny hair is the hot, new style these days.

 

[Borachio]

I can't wait for these to come back into fashion.

Spoiler :

I lie. I could happily wait for millenia.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Yet this is precisely the ideology which we find at the core of Islam. But Islam isn't a party, it's a religion. Therefore it not only is accepted, but it demands respect. Not only from its followers, but from everyone. Does anyone else see a problem with that?

Such an ideology would likely be involved in 80% to 95% of the wars raging in the world today.

Acceptance and respect from everyone will be a long time coming.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You must have misread this bit. Feel free to go back and try again. Apart from that, showing that we will not give in to having Islamic blasphemy rights imposed on us and that we will defend our right of free speech seems to serve a good enough purpose for me.

Sorry, but "I want to bully some people to show I'm a tough guy" doesn't "serve a good enough purpose" for me to call it an exercise in freedom of speech. This has nothing more to do with "Islamic blasphemy rights" than it has with freedom of speech...it's just posturing. Basically apes thumping their chests and roaring, except the apes on one side want to pretend that following up on the challenge they issued is someone else's problem.

 

[Funky]

Ah, right. Facts. Well, facts is facts. Good of you to educate the millions and millions of non-violent Muslims that they're doin' their ideology incompletely and wrong. That thar's a positively enlightening public service. Keep fighting the righteous fight.

Don't worry, I will. I will continue to support moderate Muslims and do my part in helping them reform their faith, so that its core ideology is hopefully one day no longer taken as seriously as it is today by millions of Muslims throughout the world who strive for a global Califate governed under Sharia. In fact, this is currently one of the major occupations in my life. It would be a lot easier for us if an honest criticism of the root of the problem, the specific doctrines of faith, wasn't constantly slandered by people who are willfully or unwillfully ignorant of the issue at hand.

Sorry, but "I want to bully some people to show I'm a tough guy" doesn't "serve a good enough purpose" for me to call it an exercise in freedom of speech. This has nothing more to do with "Islamic blasphemy rights" than it has with freedom of speech...it's just posturing. Basically apes thumping their chests and roaring, except the apes on one side want to pretend that following up on the challenge they issued is someone else's problem.

Must I really elaborate on the history of this issue? It wasn't mean Western "right-wingers", "racists", and "islamophobes" who decided one day "Hey, let's draw Mohammed, that will really piss the Muslims off!" After the Jyllandsposten had published some remarkably benign cartoons of Mohammed, we witnessed an outbreak of medieval stupidity, which led to the burning of embassies and the death of over 100 people. 100 people were killed over cartoons. And instead of our media reacting like it should have, namely by showing solidarity with the Jyllandsposten and defending its freedom of speech by publishing these cartoons in every news outlet in the Western world, we gave in. Until now, the cartoons haven't been shown in any major newspaper in the West that I know of. And the same thing happened after the Charlie Hebdo attacks. Instead of making a stand for free speech and making it clear that we will not allow this religious barbarism to thrive in our societies, again the cartoons were not shown in virtually any publications. A minor local paper in my home town Hamburg actually printed them, and in the same evening their publishing house was bombed. It has got this far already. We have already given in to Islamic blasphemy rights and have allowed them to trump free speech in certain circumstances. We must fight back to defend our values and regain the ground we lost. Our weapons being pens instead of guns and bombs.

Such an ideology would likely be involved in 80% to 95% of the wars raging in the world today.

Well, look around. Look at Nigeria, the Kongo, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan. This ideology is involved in many of the major crises of our time.

Acceptance and respect from everyone will be a long time coming.

I hope you are right, but find it difficult to share your optimism, if even here in the West it has become virtually impossible to have an open and honest discussion about what this ideology entails.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Only that our fight is fought with pens instead of guns and bombs.

Actually, your fight is fought with guns and bombs. The guys protecting the event did not stab the would be shooters with pens. The pretense of "better than" in lines like "we fight with pens" is what really turns me against your argument.

 

[Farm Boy]

Actually, your fight is fought with guns and bombs. The guys protecting the event did not stab the would be shooters with pens. The pretense of "better than" in lines like "we fight with pens" is what really turns me against your argument.

No ****, rite?

I mean good God. If we're to continue to fight I'd rather my ideology beat the "dirty medieval people's" ideology when it comes down to it. But pretending the fight isn't violent on both sides? That's just... I don't know. I don't have the word for it right now.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

No ****, rite?

I mean good God. If we're to continue to fight I'd rather my ideology beat the "dirty medieval people's" ideology when it comes down to it. But pretending the fight isn't violent on both sides? That's just... I don't know. I don't have the word for it right now.

Hypocrisy seems a really good fit, if you want some help.

 

[Ajidica]

Well, look around. Look at Nigeria, the Kongo, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan. This ideology is involved in many of the major crises of our time.

Not entirely sure how extremist Islam in involved in the Congo Wars, considering the major players involved were either a Christian variant or traditional. From what I remember on the subject from Prunier's Africa's World War, Islam of any facet didn't really play a role. Gaddhafi attempted to drum up some sort of 'Muslim Legion' type thing but it was even less successful than his prior flirtation with the concept back during Uganda-Tanzania War if something could even be less successful than that.
As I understand it, at best you have the Sudanese government getting annoyed at Mobutu for his continued support of anti-government rebels but that I would really hesitate to call any sort of Islamic extremism.
If you have articles or sources on the subject, I would be interested to see them.

 

[Farm Boy]

Hypocrisy seems a really good fit, if you want some help.

Doesn't quite feel right. It might be a Euro thing? We get to do a lot of the flag waving and submarine sailing for them. Perhaps being the muscle in the corner lends a different view on things when you get the enlistment rates rural America has.

 

[Berzerker]

the cartoonists are violent, bigoted hypocrites

poor Allah

 

[Narz]

the cartoonists are violent, bigoted hypocrites

poor Allah

You'd think these gods would be a little less sensitive, if you're the supreme overload why get your feelings hurt so easily. Strangely the monotheistic gods are most sensitive of all.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It is not every day that you see the words "monotheistic gods" used in a juxtaposition that makes sense. Well done.

 

[Funky]

It might be a Euro thing?

Nah, just basic human decency. But you don't seem to be interested in an honest discussion so I will waste no more words on you.

 

[Farm Boy]

"This guy doesn't agree with me, therefore, he's not worth talking with because only lying could produce these results."

Yep, no violence has ever resulted from that sort of logic before. Irony? Have I been super out clevered?

I was actually saying being hypocritical doesn't sound right. I'm trying to figure out the difference in worldview. But hey, opinions in support of open bigotry rarely often desire sustained and even-footed discourse.

 

[IglooDame]

It makes me wonder what would have happened if a couple Jewish guys had tried to shoot up the KKK march in Chicago in 1977. Or if a couple vets started to pick off Westboro Baptist Church members picketing a funeral (let's face it, vets would be a lot more 'successful' than those ISIS-wannabes in Texas).

The most likely (only, really) way I can think of to incite physical violence on the spot walking down the street in more socially conservative areas of the country would be to desecrate the US flag. Go figure, our flag is typically more sacred than any picture of a deity (even though "Piss Christ" got plenty of negative attention three decades ago). And yet, there's plenty of desecrated US flags in any proper (televised) demonstration in third world countries. Can you imagine if some US expat (or worse, local citizen that somehow became enamored of the American Dream) started picking off flag-burners with a rifle?

I'm happy with my country's First Amendment protection of obnoxious speech, but that certainly doesn't mean that I have the slightest regard for the KKK, WBC, or those Muslim-haters in Texas.

Sidenote, since I'm already rambling: is it true the wounded security guard was unarmed? In Texas?

 

[Zkribbler]

This Wilders person just looks dodgy. Is that a thing with NU-Dutch politicians?





Wasn't he in that Steven Seagal film?

No, the bad dye job shows he's the dumb boyfriend from "Ruthless People."