Single Player bugs and crashes v35 plus (SVN) - After the 18th of August 2014

[JosEPh_II]

I add a map only version in some minutes. This you can use with every gamespeed and custom options you want. But scenario works fine on eternity game speed and it still reconmed for the scenario, only problem is AI will suck a bit and go bankrupt with the current crime setting but as said i think this still will happen on other gamespeeds also, if joseph can upload a save then i can show you if the AI works or not in other gamespeeds.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=14020771&postcount=2769

Do you even read the thread? Save game was posted 2 posts above yours at that post number.

JosEPh

 

[Pit2015]

So first provide a save from prehistoric era please from this game, as the crime problem is only there before masonry. In this save the AI already has police units and is able to respond. Way to fix this problem can be a early police unit reducing the crime or make low level crimes not -75 gold like looting for prehistoric era. Because in prehistorc era and eternity game speed the civs will stay longer in the prehistoric era unable to fight crime fast enouth, we should have a prehistorc era police unit then.

Edit: Or put the town watchman back to a tech to be available there where you reveal the hard hitting crimes. These changes should make the AI working better in prehistoric era.

 

[Toffer90]

Property diffusion should really be affected by gamespeed; if it were 10 % per turn on normal it should be 1% per turn on eternity, AIAndy would know how to set this up for:

Spoiler :

This is used in gamespeed.xml where a value of 100 doesn't change anything while 200 doubles stuff and so on, this one affects a lot but I'm not sure about exactly what.
			<Percents>
				<Percent>
					<ID>ADAPT_DEFAULT</ID>
					<iValue>100</iValue>
				</Percent>
			</Percents>

He has already added lots of new factors to timescale calculations through these tags earlier in the mod development.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So first provide a save from prehistoric era please from this game, as the crime problem is only there before masonry. In this save the AI already has police units and is able to respond. Way to fix this problem can be a early police unit reducing the crime or make low level crimes not -75 gold like looting for prehistoric era. Because in prehistorc era and eternity game speed the civs will stay longer in the prehistoric era unable to fight crime fast enouth, we should have a prehistorc era police unit then.

Edit: Or put the town watchman back to a tech to be available there where you reveal the hard hitting crimes. These changes should make the AI working better in prehistoric era.

If the AI didn't survive till this point in the game then you might have a point. All AI are still up and running in that save. So seems your hypothesis is flawed. There is no problem.

JosEPh

 

[Pit2015]

You dont play your save in eternity speed Joseph, you need 1500-2000 turns in eternity to get to masonry. AI needs like 2000-2500 turns i think. No problem for a early police unit or? AI may survive but play like a fool because they dont have any gold left.

Try it, play my scenario a bit and look yourself, so you dont have also such an crap map with no oceans. Then look yourself.

 

[Thunderbrd]

When I packed files to FPK, I saw that someone put again old Camel Rider model (with scimitar). I remove him becuase Camel Rider is way before there is no Iron Weapons available in his times. Spear is much better but he uses wrong animation. Maybe Toffer can re-animate Camel Rider to this new weapon?

This could take 2-3 days to do, as I don't have too much free time this week.

If there is a quick fix for the UI issue, maybe we should consider it instead.

Exactly. Animation would take a while to resolve and should wait til after release. Please revert this so that it's 'fixed for now' for the release. You make a good point about the era and the weapon on that unit Sparth but in this case I think we can handle the anachronism for the moment. Again, this must be fixed before we can package up v36 and we're only waiting on this issue at the moment.

So first provide a save from prehistoric era please from this game, as the crime problem is only there before masonry. In this save the AI already has police units and is able to respond. Way to fix this problem can be a early police unit reducing the crime or make low level crimes not -75 gold like looting for prehistoric era. Because in prehistorc era and eternity game speed the civs will stay longer in the prehistoric era unable to fight crime fast enouth, we should have a prehistorc era police unit then.

Edit: Or put the town watchman back to a tech to be available there where you reveal the hard hitting crimes. These changes should make the AI working better in prehistoric era.

Pit, my advice would be to not freak out here. With the patch made in tourism, the crime levels shouldn't get quite as high. Furthermore, the REASON the AI you pointed at in your example, Shaka, had been suffering so badly was in large part due to his particular traits that give him added crime after he gets up to over 200 or 250 or so. Not all AI's will suffer this and his added tourism crime pushed the issue for him as well.

It shouldn't be all that far off that we'll have earlier law enforcement units in the game so fairly soon in development this side of the issue will be addressed.

Since everything else would be a quickfix at the moment I would say just don't worry about one AI driving himself into a black hole for now. Resolution is already planned so just be a bit patient with it.

 

[strategyonly]

Exactly. Animation would take a while to resolve and should wait til after release. Please revert this so that it's 'fixed for now' for the release. You make a good point about the era and the weapon on that unit Sparth but in this case I think we can handle the anachronism for the moment. Again, this must be fixed before we can package up v36 and we're only waiting on this issue at the moment..

Correct

 

[Toffer90]

I saw the Camel knight has a spear and thrusts it correctly, does he have a different armature than the camel rider? If not his animations would be compatible with the camel rider...

I started working on the camelrider, and it seems possible to salvage its camel model and only give it a completely new armature which I will animate, I've already improved the rider model in the llama archer I made so I can use that. Not having to make the camel from scratch (which would have forced me to make a new texture and UV wrapping for it as well) will save me some time but it will still take me at least 2 days.

 

[Pit2015]

Since everything else would be a quickfix at the moment I would say just don't worry about one AI driving himself into a black hole for now. Resolution is already planned so just be a bit patient with it.

Works fine with my current fix for the scenario. Good that you understand that there is a problem. Just reporting bugs and problems, so no freaking out. I can cease that if you want and only fix my stuff privat. But as said, an early police unit will work for all game speeds, so strong suggestion from me to add an early police unit. Good game without good AI sucks. If fixes planned already thats cool. Also plz remember china civ has +365 crime currently with no tourism in eternal game speed. So tourism is not a big problem and the AI mostly dont build mutch for tourism in eternal game speed in prehistoric era, in my current savegame i builded most tourism wonders so the AI cant get many, but the current crime setting drives them bakrupt with -80 gold without that they have any tourism. Let me know when you need a save game to check AI civs and crime problem in eternal game speed.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I saw the Camel knight has a spear and thrusts it correctly, does he have a different armature than the camel rider? If not his animations would be compatible with the camel rider...

I started working on the camelrider, and it seems possible to salvage its camel model and only give it a completely new armature which I will animate, I've already improved the rider model in the llama archer I made so I can use that. Not having to make the camel from scratch (which would have forced me to make a new texture and UV wrapping for it as well) will save me some time but it will still take me at least 2 days.

Is it possible to just take the animation from the Camel Knight and put it on the Camel Rider? That would be a quickfix that would solve both problems wouldn't it?

 

[Pit2015]

Bug: If you move sometimes with a field commander with mountain promotion into a mountain plot then there are some units left out and you have to move them manualy into the mountain plot where the field commander just moved, it works good but dont works for the unit subdued eagle, this unit will never enter the mountain when the field commander is in it already.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That's because the Subdued Eagle and many other subdued animals are barred from peaks for a different reason and with a different mechanism than what normally stops units from entering peaks and cannot be overcome by the Lead By system. It seems like a bug the way it plays out but there's not much we can do about it. Perhaps subdued animals should go by normal movement rules to an extent rather than being more similar to the way the wild animal moves.

Additionally, there are often units left out of a group move when those units cannot explore and the move would require that they could. Not being able to explore means the unit cannot itself move to where it would reveal any tiles covered by fog of war.

This might explain the units that don't at first come with them. Might not. Might take the commander's move into the tile to enable the rest to then move but some in the group are moving after the commander and some are moving before the commander.

 

[JosEPh_II]

You dont play your save in eternity speed Joseph, you need 1500-2000 turns in eternity to get to masonry. AI needs like 2000-2500 turns i think. No problem for a early police unit or? AI may survive but play like a fool because they dont have any gold left.

Try it, play my scenario a bit and look yourself, so you dont have also such an crap map with no oceans. Then look yourself.

I already told you I'm done with this. And my choice of when and which map I choose to play is of no concern to you.

You are not reporting bugs in this case, you are pushing Your scenario at the expense of everyone and eveything else. Both DH and ThunderBrd has addressed it too.

Adapt your scenario to fit the Mod. No more, no less.

JosEPh

 

[Pit2015]

That's because the Subdued Eagle and many other subdued animals are barred from peaks for a different reason and with a different mechanism than what normally stops units from entering peaks and cannot be overcome by the Lead By system. It seems like a bug the way it plays out but there's not much we can do about it. Perhaps subdued animals should go by normal movement rules to an extent rather than being more similar to the way the wild animal moves.

Additionally, there are often units left out of a group move when those units cannot explore and the move would require that they could. Not being able to explore means the unit cannot itself move to where it would reveal any tiles covered by fog of war.

This might explain the units that don't at first come with them. Might not. Might take the commander's move into the tile to enable the rest to then move but some in the group are moving after the commander and some are moving before the commander.

Ok.

Hunter camp problem is ok, all herds count as resource/bonus in city vicinity.

 

[Noriad2]

EDIT: nvm my mistake

 

[olduser]

So first provide a save from prehistoric era please from this game, as the crime problem is only there before masonry. In this save the AI already has police units and is able to respond. Way to fix this problem can be a early police unit reducing the crime or make low level crimes not -75 gold like looting for prehistoric era. Because in prehistorc era and eternity game speed the civs will stay longer in the prehistoric era unable to fight crime fast enouth, we should have a prehistorc era police unit then.

Edit: Or put the town watchman back to a tech to be available there where you reveal the hard hitting crimes. These changes should make the AI working better in prehistoric era.

Your problems are caused by the property system itself, because unlike most other things properties aren't affected by the gamespeed. That leads to unbalanced values in slow gamespeeds simply because they have much more turns. The same would happen with e.g. gold if it would not be scaled with the gamespeed.

I'am not sure about the best way to solve this and since that isn't the only issue with the property system i would just replace the whole system with something simpler.

 

[Sparth]

I'am not sure about the best way to solve this and since that isn't the only issue with the property system i would just replace the whole system with something simpler.

Good Idea. Simpler mean faster, less bugged and easy to learn by players.

 

[Pit2015]

Your problems are caused by the property system itself, because unlike most other things properties aren't affected by the gamespeed. That leads to unbalanced values in slow gamespeeds simply because they have much more turns. The same would happen with e.g. gold if it would not be scaled with the gamespeed.

I'am not sure about the best way to solve this and since that isn't the only issue with the property system i would just replace the whole system with something simpler.

Works fine with my fix/adaption of the crime for the scenario, all AI is doing good and the game and mod works fine in eternity game speed. Only zulu civ and shaka is going bankrupt, but that happens also without the crime problem, so he has a special problem. Most AI players dont loos mutch gold and dont go bankrupt with my 20000 starting gold and crime fix/adaption. Eternity speed makes the game mutch better and longer because you cant rush thrue the techs and you have to build a real nation and keep it working and you have really to survive the timelines, not having in 10 turns a new unit, you need the units you get a long time. So techs really worth something now. So no problems in eternity speed with the mod or game, only thing is the AI cant fight the crime fast enouth after the crime was changed before masonry, so thats fixed now because i pushed back the rate when crimes exist in prehistoric era. Only thing that is needed to make it work with the mod 100% is a early police unit where the AI is able to respond to high crime rates from gamestart. They will get a police unit after masonry, so should be no problem that have the player and the AI this earlyer, the AI will get it also at masonry. Otherwise if someone wants to game in eternity game speed then he just needs to use my fix and it works. AI is now loosing only -4 to -8 gold a turn and soon they can generate enouth gold when they reach tribalismus, so they can found more citys. Eternity is not unbalancing anything more, its just a harder game, you dont get to mutch gold and stuff but it works, only problem is the AI cant figth the crime fast enouth after it was changed, they just miss a early police unit, only after masonry as they get the town watchman then they will be able to fight the crime correctly. All other stuff is not unbalanced in eternity game speed, its only harder to get gold and to survive, but the AI can adapt to this and works fine. Real gamers want a long game and like the mod because of its depth and complexety. Mod gamer dont like it simple, simple and casual players play vanilla games, mod gamers want more than simple games.

So i say the system is good and makes the mod strong, but a early police unit will be nice.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Pit: Take a look at the planning document here!

Some things cannot be done as quickfixes but rather take an entire version to solve properly.


Do we have an update on the Camel Rider issue?

 

[Toffer90]

Do we have an update on the Camel Rider issue?

I might have the reanimation of it ready tonight.